opener and resorts

[whateverisbiting]

Yes no one including heath and economics experts can predict but like I stated this should be about balance and not about preventing.  If we were in prevention mode, it could drive the world into deep depression.  The desperation could lead to much bigger issues.  Desperate times leads to desperate measures.  Guns and ammo are flying off the shelf at the same rate as toilet paper.  Strange days indeed.

 

For those that are high risk, the advice does not change for you in any scenario.  You need to stay isolated until this is past us; that has to be frustrating and scary.  By slowing it down, that means staying in isolation longer.

 

I also feel terrible for the people living paycheck to paycheck now with no paycheck and trying to navigate the overwhelmed government system to get some much needed relief through unemployment checks.

 

Communities that are resourceful and find ways to operate effectively under social distancing guidelines will be fine.  Those that choose to shut down could face tough economic times ahead.

[ANYFISH2]

I had plans to fish Leech this year in opener as my sister purchased a cabin last year there.  At this point I probably will not go on opener, unless things dramatically change in the next month.  

 

I am not so scared for myself, but wish not to pass it in to someone else.  I still work outside of home everyday so I may be more exposed than some.  I try to limit myself to the gas station and grocery store for public places.  I am sure I would certainly know if I got the virus with having a smokers lungs, and being over weight.  But hopefully my 42 year old body can still handle it?

 

My biggest fear at this point is, we are allowing our day to day lives to be controlled by our governments.  Not just by their suggestions and best practices, but by executive orders with the penalty of the law.  We may be treading in dangerous territory.  All in our passive nature to protect each other.

 

We need to continue to be very careful of our individual impacts on others by being responsible humans.  By making a personal sacrifice we can help others, that is the responsible thing to do.  But we can't stop being the people we are, by fearing our mortality and giving up our rights and freedoms. 

 

Opener is a small sacrifice for me, as is missing Rainy River, as would be missing turkey season if things would change, or a vacation in the future.  All small sacrifice by themselves, that I would be willing to voluntarily do based on the information provided me. 

I feel, as individuals, we are more than capable of making those decisions wisely given the appropriate truthful information.  We don't need an entity to tell us what we can or can't do.

 

stay safe everyone.

Edited April 4, 2020 by ANYFISH2

[my4x4yj]

I understand the concern about the disease and live with a very concerned wife, one that hasn't seen her mother in over a month, one who won't leave our homestead and sends me out to get our perishable groceries once a week. I then come home and put my clothes worn into the wash and then take a shower. I am fortunate that I live more than four miles from town and have the acreage that can wander on and be outside but to maintain my mental health I also need that joy of fishing so will carefully chose where and when I do so. I have enough equipment to fish for a very long time without having to go to a store for anything but fuel. I hope there is no delay in the opener, it can be done with very little contact of others if one plans ahead and pays attention. I also know that I am fortunate in this because I have achieved over my 60 years, a paid for home, no debts and a diligent saving habit. We all have no choice but to weather the storm, how we come out of it in the end is going to be the big unanswerable question. Forced further shut downs in my opinion will only create a heightened level of civil unrest an more resistance. The resorts may be open but when restaurants, cafes and their own dining facilities shut down, how can they host anyone, Not all of them have self contained cabins and rooms.  

[Kettle]

On 4/2/2020 at 7:27 PM, Wanderer said:

Check this out.  They’ve been considered “reliable” on their numbers.
MN page

 

 

Walz is basing his data off of the Malcolm model which was derived from by biostatistitions here in MN. He believes our peak is Early May-Early June. 

I don't think fishing opener will be canceled but recommendations for less travel will probably be stated. 

[Wanderer]

2 hours ago, Kettle said:

Walz is basing his data off of the Malcolm model which was derived from by biostatistitions here in MN. He believes our peak is Early May-Early June. 

Thanks for the reminder of which model Walz is watching.  I’ll look it up.  The one I posted the link to was from the University of Washington.  I don’t get to see all of Walz’s press conferences but catch them if I can.  I’m on the weekly MDH call, along with a few others several days per week, and in multiple meetings per day.

 

Drinking from a fire hose has taken on a whole new meaning.

 

By the way, I’m posting on my lunch break from cutting down some trees today.  I’m wearing the appropriate PPE.

 

And now on a break from the roof tear off of the bunk house I’m refurbishing.  Not making light of the COVID-19 situation, just pointing about every day life type things that can be hazardous to our health or plenty safe if done properly.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Wanderer

[whateverisbiting]

Thanks for sharing the link.  Would be nice if they showed projection to date vs real to provide some insight into the ability to project.

[Bigfatbert]

53 minutes ago, Kettle said:

Walz is basing his data off of the Malcolm model which was derived from by biostatistitions here in MN. He believes our peak is Early May-Early June. 

I don't think fishing opener will be canceled but recommendations for less travel will probably be stated. 

 

53 minutes ago, Kettle said:

I don't think fishing opener will be canceled but recommendations for less travel will probably be stated. 

Hard to get less travel restrictions than there are now, the next step would be no travel , would it not ?

[Kettle]

1 hour ago, whateverisbiting said:

Thanks for sharing the link.  Would be nice if they showed projection to date vs real to provide some insight into the ability to project.

The University of Washington's projection that was in the link updates every four days with an update later on today. That is the model the federal government is using. Here is a link talking about the one in MN. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/coronavirus-big-differences-in-minnesota-model-national-model

[Kettle]

5 hours ago, Bigfatbert said:

 

Hard to get less travel restrictions than there are now, the next step would be no travel , would it not ?

The current plan the govenor has released which may change is stay in place until April 10th, followed by 3 additional weeks of social distancing, followed by social distancing for those at high risk. I'm guessing it will change.

I'm not taking the bait here bigfatalbert I'm not going to argue with you.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Kettle

[Wanderer]

8 hours ago, Bigfatbert said:

Do you believe that all do indeed get it ? Take care bro and thanks for you thoughts !

No, I don’t believe everyone gets it the way you and I do.  You may not think I really do get it but I do and I think most folks here do too.  
 

I’ll be careful for other’s health and welfare as best I can.  Peace to you as well. 

[smurfy]

I've been kind of hoping Jessie would pop in with his conspreicy therories here  soon!!!!!!! 

[IceHawk]

22 minutes ago, smurfy said:

I've been kind of hoping Jessie would pop in with his conspreicy therories here  soon!!!!!!! 

He's to busy trying to get back his wrestling career 

[whateverisbiting]

There are the unavoidable few that mess it up either on purpose or by ignorance but I think most people get it close enough; at least that is what the latest data are showing.  Hopefully that will hold.

 

I work in development and sterile manufacturing of biopharmaceutical drugs so I have a strong understanding.  Our bar is way higher than health care providers (that's why I make great beer!).  I am actually quite shocked what they call sterile.  Not that what they do is necessarily wrong, but it certainly is not sterile.

 

Case in point.  I was appalled at the heartwarming story of the 95 year old in the MN nursing home that could not spend her birthday with her family.  To lift her spirits, the entire staff of the nursing home...like 20 people...came into her little room where she was bed ridden and sang her happy birthday.  Big hearts, ignorant brains in that scene.  And on TV promoting the wrong approach where we should be the most careful.

[Bigfatbert]

11 hours ago, smurfy said:

so if this makes any sense, you guys make very valid points, on both sides. for me depends on the wave of the day is.

 

I believe they just don't know enough about this yet. one part of me says I don't want nothing to do with getting this, the other part, like wanderer says, i"m ok with getting it then moving on. really I or anyone can really control if you get it or not unless you don't leave your house house forever. I have a few of what they could consider underlying conditions, I had heart bypass surgery in 2011, I smoke and I have a very controlled case of diabetes but believe I am healthy enough to withstand this COVID-19 should I get it somehow.

 

as far as opener, I gave up going opener years ago. I just don't like the zoo at accesses or on the lakes. if I hit an access with no vehicles......i'm in heaven. 

with what IS known is that with your existing health conditions you are most definitely at a high risk of getting this and having severe problems ... I would stick with the part of you that states “I don’t want nothing to do with this”..

Being positive is great though , but if I was you I would try to do anything and everting to stay away from this virus  . Please do , I want ya to fish again  not trying to fear ... take care from me to you!

[BobT]

22 hours ago, Bigfatbert said:

Personal trapping of minnows and leeches gets ruled out also as that would violate the Gov’s order by doing such .

Could you explain how this would violate the Governor's order? I don't recall him including this in the order.

 

Also, the part where you say buying tackle is a violation of his order because it would not be essential. One part of his order is that it is essential to get outside. There is medical support for this in both physical and mental health. Fishing is not canceled because it is one way to get outside and an easy way to apply social distancing for our own health. In this case, stopping at the bait shop to pick up tackle would be an essential. Stopping at the bait shop to just browse would not be essential and that would be a violation of the governor's orders. Two different things.

 

What the governor's order does say is that if we are going out and about we must use precautions and exercise social distancing guidelines. 

 

If you don't feel comfortable being out and about, maybe part of the problem is that you have cooped yourself up too much and are becoming too depressed. There is medical evidence to support this hypothesis. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by BobT

[expl]

My opener plans will not change.Stop and get bait/snacks at the gas station when fueling the boat/truck.This all done in one stop that would need to be made eventually to get fuel anyhow.Drive to the landing,not speaking or having contact with anyone while not touching anything.This has been my routine for the past few weeks and will continue to be for the near future whether around home or up north.They can cancel whatever they like,I will be fishing.I noticed i cant get a haircut but i can pack into the liquor store with plenty of other people and buy booze.Makes sense right?

[BobT]

31 minutes ago, expl said:

My opener plans will not change.Stop and get bait/snacks at the gas station when fueling the boat/truck.This all done in one stop that would need to be made eventually to get fuel anyhow.Drive to the landing,not speaking or having contact with anyone while not touching anything.This has been my routine for the past few weeks and will continue to be for the near future whether around home or up north.They can cancel whatever they like,I will be fishing.I noticed i cant get a haircut but i can pack into the liquor store with plenty of other people and buy booze.Makes sense right?

Legally, due to the Governor's order, they cannot pack them in a liquor store. Those shoppers must also maintain appropriate social distancing while inside. Same for you when you buy bait, get gas, get groceries, whatever. 

 

That's a potential real problem and what could inspire the closure of boat launches. If it becomes apparent that we are not following the rules, we will be restricted further. The only reason for the "stay at home order" was because we can't be trusted to use good sense. 

[Dash 1]

3 hours ago, BobT said:

If it becomes apparent that we are not following the rules, we will be restricted further. The only reason for the "stay at home order" was because we can't be trusted to use good sense.

Well said. 

I see this everyday at work. Some people come in alone, get their items and leave. While others come in as a group or family, walk all around gawking and touching everything in site. If we just adhere to common sense and social distance these few weeks we can have a better summer. 

[expl]

Just within the past couple of days is the first instances I have seen or heard of storres limiting the amount of people in them.They went unchecked or regulated for quite some time.IF this virus is as contaigous as they say it is  then guess where its likely the most prevalent now-your gas stations,grocery stores,liquor stores its hanging out in the only places people are left to frequent.If you think that limiting the number of people in a store or staying 6ft away from  people while your in the store is stopping it from spreading your crazy.Stay healthy maybe we will see ya on the water!

[gimruis]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:31 PM, Bigfatbert said:

With Covid19 restrictions this holds  true for non family members .

 

With a 12-17 ft boat no more than 2 people can legally fish from it 

 

With a 18 -23 ft boat no more than 3 people can legally fish from it .

 

With a 24-30 ft boat no more than 4 people can legally fish from it .

 

must always maintain at least a 6’ distance  at landings , landing parking lots , docks , while in he boat fishing or moving around  , using a landing net ,..

 

I don't even think its possible to abide by this given your mathematical calculations.  At some point, 2 anglers in a 12 foot boat are going to be closer than 6 feet, and likely quite often.  Most fishing boats are 16-20 feet in length.  A boat that size should not have more than 2 people, and they should be from the same household (people you have been around regularly, not family members of fishing buddies you irregular meet up with).  Franky, I think people should be fishing solo mission no matter how big the boat is.  You can't spread a virus to someone that isn't there.

[gimruis]

On 4/4/2020 at 9:02 PM, IceHawk said:

He's to busy trying to get back his wrestling career 

He's laying in the Mexican weeds in baja California, last I heard.

[gimruis]

23 hours ago, BobT said:

In this case, stopping at the bait shop to pick up tackle would be an essential. Stopping at the bait shop to just browse would not be essential and that would be a violation of the governor's orders. Two different things.

 

They may have two different intents Bob, but they get to the same results.  You entered a public domain and have the same risk of infection whether you're buying items as "essential" or just "browsing."

 

Why not just avoid the stop all together?  Go directly to the lake and then come home.  Then you have avoided contact with someone 100%.  Fishing classified under acceptable recreational outdoor activity is perfectly fine, but the second you add a stop at the store to buy lures, bait, gas, food, snacks, use the restroom, etc the whole concept is down the drain.

Edited April 6, 2020 by gimruis

[Rick]

Here's a question...what are you basing your opinions on? The media's take? Your Governors take?

 

What model are they using to drive fear and panic? How many of them give you guidelines to improve your immunity?

 

Here is an article from Professor Hinckley.

 

Why is Oregon still on lock down?

 

The data reveals little to no benefit, and seismic losses.

 

Like most areas of the world right now, my amazing community here in Portland, Oregon is absolutely suffering as job losses and crushed lives mount with each passing day.

 

So far, Oregonians are stepping up and doing their part to help save their fellow citizens, which is the reason we’re all sheltering in place, right? But what if the data, the data we already have, tells a different story? What if the data tells us that we never needed a lockdown, and that the COVID-19 virus is already running its course

 

https://www.professorhinkley.com/blog/why-is-oregon-still-on-lock-down

[smurfy]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

Here's a question...what are you basing your opinions on? The media's take? Your Governors take?

 

What model are they using to drive fear and panic? How many of them give you guidelines to improve your immunity?

 

Here is an article from Professor Hinckley.

 

Why is Oregon still on lock down?

 

The data reveals little to no benefit, and seismic losses.

 

Like most areas of the world right now, my amazing community here in Portland, Oregon is absolutely suffering as job losses and crushed lives mount with each passing day.

 

So far, Oregonians are stepping up and doing their part to help save their fellow citizens, which is the reason we’re all sheltering in place, right? But what if the data, the data we already have, tells a different story? What if the data tells us that we never needed a lockdown, and that the COVID-19 virus is already running its course

 

https://www.professorhinkley.com/blog/why-is-oregon-still-on-lock-down

that's an excellent point and one I've been thinking about for a while. how is this different the  2 different strains of this influenza????????????/ just asking!

[Rick]

9 minutes ago, smurfy said:

that's an excellent point and one I've been thinking about for a while. how is this different the  2 different strains of this influenza????????????/ just asking!

Nope, they're talking about the same Coronavirus brought on by China.

[BobT]

16 hours ago, expl said:

Just within the past couple of days is the first instances I have seen or heard of storres limiting the amount of people in them.They went unchecked or regulated for quite some time.IF this virus is as contaigous as they say it is  then guess where its likely the most prevalent now-your gas stations,grocery stores,liquor stores its hanging out in the only places people are left to frequent.If you think that limiting the number of people in a store or staying 6ft away from  people while your in the store is stopping it from spreading your crazy.Stay healthy maybe we will see ya on the water!

Social distancing is not designed to completely stop the spread of the virus. It is designed to slow it down so health care facilities can deal with the 20% that may become in need of serious care. Of those infected 80% will not be serious. That leaves 20% that are more serious and in need of hospital care. Without social distancing, hospitals would be overcome even more rapidly and more people will die as a result because they will not be able to receive the necessary care. Have you not heard what has been happening in Italy? 

Edited April 6, 2020 by BobT

[BobT]

1 hour ago, gimruis said:

 

I don't even think its possible to abide by this given your mathematical calculations.  At some point, 2 anglers in a 12 foot boat are going to be closer than 6 feet, and likely quite often.  Most fishing boats are 16-20 feet in length.  A boat that size should not have more than 2 people, and they should be from the same household (people you have been around regularly, not family members of fishing buddies you irregular meet up with).  Franky, I think people should be fishing solo mission no matter how big the boat is.  You can't spread a virus to someone that isn't there.

Yes, and if you don't have access to a boat, there's always shore fishing.

[BobT]

57 minutes ago, gimruis said:

 

They may have two different intents Bob, but they get to the same results.  You entered a public domain and have the same risk of infection whether you're buying items as "essential" or just "browsing."

 

Why not just avoid the stop all together?  Go directly to the lake and then come home.  Then you have avoided contact with someone 100%.  Fishing classified under acceptable recreational outdoor activity is perfectly fine, but the second you add a stop at the store to buy lures, bait, gas, food, snacks, use the restroom, etc the whole concept is down the drain.

Yes, if you can go straight to the lake it would be best but going in, buying bait, and leaving is far less potential risk than going in and spending a half-hour browsing without making a purchase as that would be unnecessary. Remember, social distancing is not intended to completely stop the virus from spreading. It is intended to slow the spread as much as practical.

Edited April 6, 2020 by BobT

[Rick]

2 minutes ago, BobT said:

Social distancing is not designed to completely stop the spread of the virus. It is designed to slow it down so health care facilities can deal with the 20% that may become in need of serious care. Of those infected 80% will not be serious. That leaves 20% that are more serious and in need of hospital care. Without social distancing, hospitals would be overcome even more rapidly and more people will die as a result because they will not be able to receive the necessary care. Have you not heard what has been happening in Italy? 

 

Actually, social distancing is not that effective.

 

The vast majority of transfer comes by touching your face with hands that have not been washed with soap and water after touching a surface that holds viable virus.

[BobT]

1 minute ago, Rick said:

 

Actually, social distancing is not that effective.

 

The vast majority of transfer comes by touching your face with hands that have not been washed with soap and water after touching a surface that holds viable virus.

That's probably true since most of us (I hope) have the common decency to cover ourselves when we cough or sneeze rather than blowing everything in others' faces.