Shotgun zones

[MJ1657]

7 hours ago, IceHawk said:

 

Not sure who this pertains to,  but speaking for myself I hunt with both in fact I own 15 rifles of all calibers. In know way am I against carrying a rifle, I hunt my land up N in Pequot  lakes all the time when up there  with my 30-06 or my 270. When hunting locally in a slug zone I use my 220 savage or my 11-87 fully rifled slug gun. . I also have been a archery muzzleloader hunter for a very long time and own and hut with them also. What I am against is opening a can of worms in a area I don't think is setup to handle high power rifles. If we allow rifles are we going to draw the line of AR style weapons being allowed to be used?  Safety is my number one concern. As I stated in numerous posts. Its all a personal opinion and everyone has one and has that right to one. Do we agree with everyones not always.   If there was a vote I would vote no just because of my personal views and opinion. And for the guys that want it great that's there right,. Will it change my opinion if rifles are allowed  heck no. Do I feel any different twoards someone that thinks it should be allowed a strong no. As hunters we need to stick together because your right antis are after our guns and rights as hunters. And a strong core equals a strong fight.  

Draw the line at AR's?

What would the reasoning be for that it's just a rifle.

 

[IceHawk]

My reasoning would be safety for me and my family. Yes I am fortunate to slug hunt my brothers private land locally and feel about as safe as possible. But the neighbors that hunt the adjoining land are a bunch of unethical crazy senseless meat hunters whos only objective is to fill there freezers. Safety is not one of there stronger points,  They make multiple drives next to us and already are slinging  slugs in  every direction shooting at deer. Cant even imagine them with AR's driving a corn field and deer busting out Would I feel comfortable with them especially the younger inexperienced hunters  hunting next to me my family especially my daughter and nephews  with loaded style AR rifles hell no. If legal would I accept it yes.  Fortunately the young ones in our group  have been taught safety always first animals second by avid hunters like myself, Grandpas and uncles. They are taught think shoot make a good shot safely and hopefully ethically and put the animal down without suffering. Never take any risky shots. regardless!!!  Are some of the others  younger hunters taught this depends on how they were raised. Like I mentioned in a couple posts back Luckily I've reached that third stage in my hunting carreer. The way I look at it going out in the woods hunting with my family and coming home safely is whats its all about for me. The harvest is a added bonus for us. MJ we definitely are on a different view on this subject and I respect you for that and hopefully you respect me, even though I have a different opinion. . Glad you are standing by your guns no pun intended  

[MJ1657]

5 hours ago, IceHawk said:

My reasoning would be safety for me and my family. Yes I am fortunate to slug hunt my brothers private land locally and feel about as safe as possible. But the neighbors that hunt the adjoining land are a bunch of unethical crazy senseless meat hunters whos only objective is to fill there freezers. Safety is not one of there stronger points,  They make multiple drives next to us and already are slinging  slugs in  every direction shooting at deer. Cant even imagine them with AR's driving a corn field and deer busting out Would I feel comfortable with them especially the younger inexperienced hunters  hunting next to me my family especially my daughter and nephews  with loaded style AR rifles hell no. If legal would I accept it yes.  Fortunately the young ones in our group  have been taught safety always first animals second by avid hunters like myself, Grandpas and uncles. They are taught think shoot make a good shot safely and hopefully ethically and put the animal down without suffering. Never take any risky shots. regardless!!!  Are some of the others  younger hunters taught this depends on how they were raised. Like I mentioned in a couple posts back Luckily I've reached that third stage in my hunting carreer. The way I look at it going out in the woods hunting with my family and coming home safely is whats its all about for me. The harvest is a added bonus for us. MJ we definitely are on a different view on this subject and I respect you for that and hopefully you respect me, even though I have a different opinion. . Glad you are standing by your guns no pun intended  

I don't own an AR and no little about them. Do they shoot further then a "regular" rifle? 

 

The distance a rifle bullet travels seems to be the concern here. 

 

I do respect your views but we're in trouble when sportsman start spreading fear about guns. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by MJ1657

[gimruis]

Not sure they shoot "farther" than a regular rifle.  That may depend on the shooter, optics, ballistic, and caliber of the weapon.  What is no doubt true is that they are far more accurate and shoot much further than a slug shotgun though.

 

Like I previously stated, there are a lot of sketchy hunters out there no matter what weapon is being used.  Statistically speaking when you have more people in the field/woods at one time (like during deer firearms season), you are simply going to have more accidents or careless hunters.

[PRO-V]

I own an AR in .223 and no they don't shoot farther than any other deer rifle. In fact I will not use mine on deer sized game as it is very much on the small side for effective killing of deer the size we have in Minnesota. Yeah I can hit a prairie dog at 300 yards but it takes alot of practice and the bullet drops fast. One thing that irks the Hell out of me is when it is referred to as a high powered rifle. There is no definition of such. Any other deer caliber has more 'power'.

[MJ1657]

Wisconsin dropped their shotgun zones and opened the state up to rifles. I don't recall hearing of mass casualties. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[gimruis]

2 hours ago, MJ1657 said:

Wisconsin dropped their shotgun zones and opened the state up to rifles. I don't recall hearing of mass casualties. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Looking at Wisconsin's trends is a good way to model what may happen here.  Our season, hunter numbers, and landscape is similar although most of our west/southwestern portion of the state is mostly open prairie and I don't think Wisconsin has any of that.  I think we should adopt the rules they have on using a crossbow during archery season too, but that hasn't happened yet either.

[PRO-V]

Wisconsin has lots of wide open country. Take a drive through sometime. I've been through a ton of it.

[Wanderer]

I see the AR comment as more about high capacity magazines during a deer drive where UNFORTUNATELY some people have already adopted the spray and pray style of shooting at deer.

[IceHawk]

55 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

I see the AR comment as more about high capacity magazines during a deer drive where UNFORTUNATELY some people have already adopted the spray and pray style of shooting at deer.

Thanks Tracie you got what I was implementing.    

[MJ1657]

9 hours ago, Wanderer said:

I see the AR comment as more about high capacity magazines during a deer drive where UNFORTUNATELY some people have already adopted the spray and pray style of shooting at deer.

Remember the deer drives in the days when deer weren't plentiful like they are now. 30 people driving woods and swamps. It was like a war zone. 

 

Spray and pray is nothing new although I haven't witnessed it in many years. 

[Wanderer]

2 hours ago, MJ1657 said:

Remember the deer drives in the days when deer weren't plentiful like they are now. 30 people driving woods and swamps. It was like a war zone. 

 

Spray and pray is nothing new although I haven't witnessed it in many years. 

I remember a few.  And I remember hearing too many yuk it up stories about how a couple people were gonna shoot till the deer was down or they ran out of shells.  By God if they were taking their gun out of the case they wanted to shoot it.

 

I admit I haven’t witnessed it in quite few years myself but I’ve also distanced myself as much as possible from the regular firearms season in MN and those in general who even talk like that.

 

I’m sorry I can’t speak highly of the MN firearms season - well I guess I’m not sorry based on my experiences - but I don’t have an expansive controlled environment to firearms hunt on.  So that probably does affect my opinion.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Wanderer

[gimruis]

My group of 10 used to conduct drives regularly in zone 1 near the Chippewa National Forest.  We always utilized safety but we had a discussion about who was going to shoot and where/what direction BEFORE the drive too.  We did this for 15 years and never once had anything remotely close to a safety issue.  We only did this towards the very end of the season when there was less hunters out there and the deer had already been hunted from stands for weeks.  I enjoyed it because it was a different way to hunt, other than rotting away in a tree stand for hours on end.  We harvested a good amount of antlerless deer but we almost never harvested a buck though...they were too smart.  They'd cut back on us or escape through cracks in the "orange" wall whereas the antlerless deer would try to escape where we expected them too.  One time a nice buck swam across a lake to escape if you can believe that.

 

My point is that we all carried scoped rifles and although some of us were clearly better shooters than others, we all conducted ourselves in a safe manner.

 

We don't do it anymore because most of the hunters in my group have faded into "part timers" so they really only hunt a day or two for the entire season and then hang it up.  We have a newer generation that has entered the fold and although they are safe, they aren't dedicated.

[DonkeyHodey]

22 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Looking at Wisconsin's trends is a good way to model what may happen here.  Our season, hunter numbers, and landscape is similar...

I can't believe no one is attacking you for daring to suggest that evil neighbor state of ours should be copied!

How dare you say we are similar!  Where's your state pride!?!

Yer probably an Iowegian or a NoDaker to even insinuate Sconnie is anything like good ol' Minnesota!

 

Q:  What do you call a pretty girl in Wisconsin?

A:  A tourist!  (Ba - Dum - Ching!)

 

(*disclaimer:  I did marry gorgeous girl born/raised in Sconnie, but she was born to Minnesotans who only lived there for a short time.  She's more like a refugee.)

22 hours ago, PRO-V said:

Wisconsin has lots of wide open country. Take a drive through sometime.

Yah, with the windows up!  P.  U.  !!!     Ba - Dum - Ching

 

Q:  What do you call the atmosphere in Wisconsin?

A:  Dairy-Air.

 

(*derriere--it's French for butt.  Ba - Dum - Ching!)

[Knowknot]

Not saying we are afraid of guns, you just have to respect them and also I don't think having a high power rifle in the hand of a 10 year old all that safe. Granted there are a lot of them that will be safe with a rifle, but they still need to be careful. And also I am not a anti gun person either...

[PRO-V]

2 hours ago, Knowknot said:

Not saying we are afraid of guns, you just have to respect them and also I don't think having a high power rifle in the hand of a 10 year old all that safe. Granted there are a lot of them that will be safe with a rifle, but they still need to be careful. And also I am not a anti gun person either...

A 10 year old cannot hunt without an adult with them.

[Wanderer]

On 3/19/2020 at 7:56 AM, gimruis said:

My group of 10 used to conduct drives regularly in zone 1 near the Chippewa National Forest.  We always utilized safety but we had a discussion about who was going to shoot and where/what direction BEFORE the drive too.  We did this for 15 years and never once had anything remotely close to a safety issue.  We only did this towards the very end of the season when there was less hunters out there and the deer had already been hunted from stands for weeks.  I enjoyed it because it was a different way to hunt, other than rotting away in a tree stand for hours on end.  We harvested a good amount of antlerless deer but we almost never harvested a buck though...they were too smart.  They'd cut back on us or escape through cracks in the "orange" wall whereas the antlerless deer would try to escape where we expected them too.  One time a nice buck swam across a lake to escape if you can believe that.

 

My point is that we all carried scoped rifles and although some of us were clearly better shooters than others, we all conducted ourselves in a safe manner.

I can believe the buck story!  I’ve witnessed it myself on a different kind of hunt but he was still evading hunters.  It’s an eye opener.

 

Agreed you can safely do deer drives with rifles but your zone 1 setting in the Chippewa Forest is completely a different situation than the farm country around Benson.  The only things that are the same is it’s still whitetail deer and there is a river named the Chippewa out yonder.

[candiru]

I think the young hunter is safer with a youth model 243 bolt action in their hands than a shotgun.   With scope you aim.  A shotgun you point.  With less recoil, they won't be afraid to shoot it and practice.    They aren't tempted to spray and pray like they would with a pump or semi-auto.    Also less chance of wounding an animal and not recovering it.

 

It makes no sense that I can use an AR "pistol" with a 20 round magazine in my woods in Pope County but not a bolt action 308.     Just north of highway 95 on the north edge of the cities I can use an AR10 in 308 with a 20 round magazine.    This area is full of subdivisions, hobby farms, and traffic.   But I can't use my bolt action in a far less populated area?

 

The AR pistol thing is something that needs to be dealt with.  They need to decide what the rules are for them.    I can't think of anything worse for safety or for the deer.   I don't know of anything firsthand but I do know someone who says his neighbors are using them and doing a whole lot of shooting and not a whole lot of hitting.

 

With 25 days worth of firearm/muzzleloader seasons, you can't tell me we would suddenly be killing too many deer if we allowed rifles.

[eyeguy 54]

If pointing and shooting with shotgun that youth needs to be taught to aim with it. 

[Wanderer]

22 minutes ago, candiru said:

I think the young hunter is safer with a youth model 243 bolt action in their hands than a shotgun.  

 

Just north of highway 95 on the north edge of the cities I can use an AR10 in 308 with a 20 round magazine.    This area is full of subdivisions, hobby farms, and traffic.   But I can't use my bolt action in a far less populated area?

A bolt .243 is what we started our youngest daughter with.  Good choice of a rifle.  Our oldest daughter stated with the typical Mossberg 500 youth in 20 gauge.  The package with the extra slug barrel with sights.  
 

Like @eyeguy 54 said, You can “aim” anything if you want to - or point for that matter too.

 

I lived just south of the 95 line for 15 years and witnessed the urban sprawl around Cambridge. I always expected to see the boundary to move further north, like to 23/107 before it was eliminated.

 

I said I moved to neutral on the subject but still find the decision interesting and will pay attention to it.

[eyeguy 54]

Yep. Just need to be taught. 243 on bolt action great choice. Shot my first with a 270 bolt about 1969. When I got out of army I bought a Remington 760 in 243. Pump action. Loved it and put a lot of meat in the freezer. And some racks on the wall . Now I use a 20 ga 870. Still works for meat and racks but I hunt in the woods so no long shots 

[gimruis]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:08 AM, candiru said:

With 25 days worth of firearm/muzzleloader seasons, you can't tell me we would suddenly be killing too many deer if we allowed rifles.

 

So lower the bag limit then.  It doesn't matter if we're more effecient...the bag limits and seasons are based on the zones you hunt in, regardless of the weapon used.  The bag limit is one whether you harvest it with a bow, rifle, shotgun, or muzzle loader.  Wisconsin has proved that it does not greatly affect the overall harvest after they allowed the use of rifles statewide and the use of cross bows during archery season.

 

I'd be far more in favor of removing party hunting than opening up the entire state to rifle use.  It just burns me up when I see people with photos of TWO bucks because they used their friend's tag in addition to their own.  The bag limit should be ONE buck and if you fill that you cannot hunt anymore unless you have bonus antlerless permits.

[DonkeyHodey]

32 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I'd be far more in favor of removing party hunting than opening up the entire state to rifle use.  It just burns me up when I see people with photos of TWO bucks because they used their friend's tag in addition to their own.  The bag limit should be ONE buck and if you fill that you cannot hunt anymore unless you have bonus antlerless permits.

I tend to agree.

However, I am not the least burned up (and rather touched) when I see a teen with 2 bucks (and dad or mom (or grandparent, etc...) didn't shoot--*provided they actually hunt.)

"Party hunting" for <20 yo's is something that I wouldn't want compromised...

 

If yer 50 and still need to fill your pappy's buck tag 'cause you already filled your own, that's just ridiculous...  Grow up.

[gimruis]

1 hour ago, DonkeyHodey said:

tend to agree.

However, I am not the least burned up (and rather touched) when I see a teen with 2 bucks (and dad or mom (or grandparent, etc...) didn't shoot--*provided they actually hunt.)

"Party hunting" for <20 yo's is something that I wouldn't want compromised...

 

If yer 50 and still need to fill your pappy's buck tag 'cause you already filled your own, that's just ridiculous...  Grow up.

 

I don't care how old you are or how many years you've been hunting.  Harvesting two bucks (or more) should be prohibited for everyone.  No one demographic or age group should be exempt or singled out.  It would immediately make everyone re-consider whether to harvest a small buck or not early in the season and wait for a bigger one later on, thus substantially increasing the average size/age of bucks.

Edited March 23, 2020 by gimruis

[DonkeyHodey]

13 minutes ago, gimruis said:

No one demographic or age group should be exempt or singled out.

I am not sure I agree.  Do you have a problem with adolescents/90 yo's not needing a fishing license?  Or the early kid season for deer hunting?

 

I'm willing to allow a teen/inexperienced/younger hunter to not necessarily need to be selective in shooting a buck... 

(Frankly, we need to get the next generations "hooked" on hunting because the current trends in Mn are decreasing percentage of Minnesotans are hunting (and fishing).--the fewer the hunters, the less political clout...)

[MJ1657]

There is a shortage of quality bucks in MN?

[Wanderer]

44 minutes ago, MJ1657 said:

There is a shortage of quality bucks in MN?

Yes, overall our age structure is young.  I know you don’t see it in the area at your disposal but on average across this state, it’s true.

 

This thread really isn’t about that though.

[gimruis]

21 hours ago, Wanderer said:

This thread really isn’t about that though.

 

Yes, he's right.  I got off topic.  Moving along...

[MJ1657]

I read that some feel allowing this may bring some new deer hunters into the mix. Lots of young guys are at the ranges with AR platform guns.