Gov Dayton

[delcecchi]

I think libertarians have some good ideas, but ...

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would wait until the election is over to start their full court press on libertarian positions.

The next election is 720 days in the future gentlemen.

This thread is 6 months old.

There hasn't been a mention of Dayton in a week.

Give it a rest.

There was a thread about the Libertarians and their platform a while back, The local Libertarian/Anarchists had a hard time defending many of the proposals.

[Big Dave2]

If these are the issues you are really most concerned about and not the economy or jobs or over-taxation or foreign wars or eroding liberties, then by all means let's discuss these issues.

There was the notion of Eminent Domain, hence the "takings" clause in the Constitution.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

So, what causes monopolies? Government. Only a government can cause a COERCIVE monopoly. Through things like patents, antitrust laws, and many other regulations. Only government can grant a legal monopoly that the consumers have no choice to pay high prices, etc.

I would add that the only possible way for a business to become a monopoly in the first place is with the aid of government, colluding to exclude competitors from entering the market in various ways. This doesn't happen in a free market.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: delcecchi

There was the notion of Eminent Domain, hence the "takings" clause in the Constitution.

It certainly wasn't used then the way it gets used now.

Quote:

The practice of condemnation was transplanted into the American colonies with the common law. In the early years, unimproved land could be taken without compensation; this practice was accepted because land was so abundant that it could be cheaply replaced.

Anyone who has read about what took place in the proceedings of Kelo vs New London would know that eminent domain as practiced today is a complete abomination of what it was originally intended to be.

[delcecchi]

If Libertarians believe Government causes monopolies, there is no hope for them.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

If Libertarians believe Government causes monopolies, there is no hope for them.

Here's a link to a good article explaining the libertarian view on monopoly, using Microsoft as a case study.

Before reading the article, however, you must agree to the following terms:

License Agreement

By reading this article, you agree to run around the room you are currently in, flapping your arms and squawking like a chicken. By linking to this article, recommending it, talking about it, or commenting on it, you agree to owe me one zillion dollars. Make it two zillions if you dare criticize it. By thinking about this article, you agree that all my opinions, stated or unstated, are correct. By disclosing any information whatsoever about this article, you agree to surrender to me your wife (respectively girlfriend, husband, inflatable doll, etc.), your firstborn child, and your eternal soul; I will get your earthly body to boot, if you use any word with the letter ``M´´ while discussing my article. Failure to comply with this license will entail the thought police bursting into your home, seizing your assets, and throwing you into the jails of the ministry of love, where you will be reeducated into a joyfully law-abiding citizen. It will also entail your ultimately burning in hell — though that is probably going to happen, anyway.

Note that in addition to this license, you may or may not be subject to The End-Seller License.

http://fare.tunes.org/liberty/microsoft_monopoly.html#bibent-ORWELL-1984

[Uncle Bill]

Boehner is already attempting to blame the "lame duck" president. Watched part of a post election news conference with him and when a reporter asked him how he was going to keep his party members in line ( some left wing and vigilante newbies) his immediate response was "that is a very inappropriate question" and "stfu".

Let's recap for a minute.

Last month the GOP went from controlling 60 out of 99 state legislative bodies to controlling 69. The previous high was 64 in 1920. Republicans now hold over 4,100 of the nation’s 7,383 legislative seats. That is their highest number of legislators since 1920.

When it comes to total state government control (both houses and governor) the GOP advantage is clear: 23 R, 7 D, 18 divided and 1 undecided (Alaska).

Under "the lame duck President" the dems have managed, first to lose the House, second the Senate, and third, the majority of State government control.

Historic gains for the GOP.

You're right. Boehner shouldn't be "blaming" the President. He should be Thanking him!

Party On !!

[LMITOUT]

Party on!!!

[Slabasaurus]

Let's recap for a minute.

Last month the GOP went from controlling 60 out of 99 state legislative bodies to controlling 69. The previous high was 64 in 1920. Republicans now hold over 4,100 of the nation’s 7,383 legislative seats. That is their highest number of legislators since 1920.

When it comes to total state government control (both houses and governor) the GOP advantage is clear: 23 R, 7 D, 18 divided and 1 undecided (Alaska).

Under "the lame duck President" the dems have managed, first to lose the House, second the Senate, and third, the majority of State government control.

Historic gains for the GOP.

You're right. Boehner shouldn't be "blaming" the President. He should be Thanking him!

Party On !!

Meanwhile progressive ballot initiatives overwhelmingly passed across the country... showing once again that the electorate is confusing and unpredictable.

guess that may just be more having cake and eating it too. Who knows.

I am still trying to pop enough popcorn to last through the cruz v mcconnel drama that's gonna unfold.

[Big Dave2]

If Libertarians believe Government causes monopolies, there is no hope for them.

[Juneau4]

Since you mentioned the year 1920 ( the last time the Republicans had such a mass majority) maybe you should also have mentioned what happened to the economy shortly after that.

[Big Dave2]

If Libertarians believe Government causes monopolies, there is no hope for them.

[delcecchi]

[quote=Big Dave2

This is all you got?

[Big Dave2]

Nope, I got the election results. LP got miniscule numbers. Your only excuse appears to be that the people are too stupid to understand the glory that is Libertarianism. (I went and looked and your guy, Gary Johnson, only got 0.99% of the popular vote.)

LP is the ant crawling up the elephant's leg yelling "hold on honey, here I come".

But yet you apparently can't find anything to disagree with them on other than they are not Republicans?

[delcecchi]

You are a 1%er. Get over it.

[PurpleFloyd]

You are a 1%er. Get over it.

So what does that mean? in the past many ideas were thought to be fringe by the uneducated, incoherent and intolerant such as those who wanted to end slavery, allow women to vote, end prohibition, and many other things. That wasn't because the Minority was wrong but because the majority were just low information types on the subject. Once people were shown an alternative they accepted and adopted it. I suspect at some point the free spending liberal positions you seem quite attached to and eager to defend will go by the wayside as well. It may take the fracturing of the economy by the crushing debt the policies you support for that to happen but it will happen. Until then feel free to revel in your glory.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

You are a 1%er. Get over it.

The fact is the libertarian wing of the GOP is steadily gaining strength, and is actually the future of the party. So the progressive conservatives (rinos) are really the ones who need to get over it.

Not sure of the actual numbers after the election, but there were about 2 dozen members in the RLC before.

[delcecchi]

The fact is the libertarian wing of the GOP is steadily gaining strength, and is actually the future of the party. So the progressive conservatives (rinos) are really the ones who need to get over it.

Not sure of the actual numbers after the election, but there were about 2 dozen members in the RLC before.

There are libertarians (small l) and there are Libertarians as represented by the Libertarian Party. Some of the libertarian ideas are good and push things in the right direction. Many of the ones advocated by the Libertarians are unworkable and lead to them getting fractional percent of the vote.

Libertarian seems to be a very slippery concept these days.

[Big Dave2]

So what does that mean? in the past many ideas were thought to be fringe by the uneducated, incoherent and intolerant such as those who wanted to end slavery, allow women to vote, end prohibition, and many other things. That wasn't because the Minority was wrong but because the majority were just low information types on the subject. Once people were shown an alternative they accepted and adopted it. I suspect at some point the free spending liberal positions you seem quite attached to and eager to defend will go by the wayside as well. It may take the fracturing of the economy by the crushing debt the policies you support for that to happen but it will happen. Until then feel free to revel in your glory.

I agree and it's not only fiscal policies that will eventually be the undoing of the Republican party as we know it but their social stances as well. Like it or not, the views of folks 40 and under have changed and most are getting tired of govt intervening in their private life.

Del, you do realize that the Republican party was once a 3rd party, right? Ask the Whigs what happens when you don't get in line with the population's evolving social ideas (slavery).

[delcecchi]

Del, you do realize that the Republican party was once a 3rd party, right? Ask the Whigs what happens when you don't get in line with the population's evolving social ideas (slavery).

And ask the Bull Moose Party too. Right now the LP is just another tiny fringe, along with the Greens, the Grassroots, and the Socialist Workers among others.

So keep proselytizing. Eventually you might make it to near double digits, if you purge the Anarchists and other whackos who came up with the proposal and the platform.

Good luck with that.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

There are libertarians (small l) and there are Libertarians as represented by the Libertarian Party. Some of the libertarian ideas are good and push things in the right direction. Many of the ones advocated by the Libertarians are unworkable and lead to them getting fractional percent of the vote.

Libertarian seems to be a very slippery concept these days.

The libertarian concepts of limited government and personal liberty was actually the basis on which the GOP was formed, but has drifted away from in more recent times.

The libertarian influence will continue to grow, as big government failures continue to accumulate.

[PurpleFloyd]

And ask the Bull Moose Party too.

[delcecchi]

Sure, good ideas that resonate with the public will be adopted. Whacko ideas advocated by .99% will not.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Sure, good ideas that resonate with the public will be adopted. Whacko ideas advocated by .99% will not.

You mean like legalizing weed?...

[PurpleFloyd]

Sure, good ideas that resonate with the public will be adopted. Whacko ideas advocated by .99% will not.

Like which ones specifically?

[delcecchi]

Like which ones specifically?

The future is so hard to predict. In a coming years we will see which ones. And we will see if the Libertarians go the way of the Peace and Freedom party, who had Roseanne Barr and Cindy Sheehan as their candidates in 2012. They got almost 70,000 votes.

[PurpleFloyd]

Like which ones specifically?

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Stay on topic. Which specific parts of the current Libertarian platform are you referring to as whacko ideas?

Several states have already passed legislation on blow. Hookers might be next..

[Big Dave2]

Sure, good ideas that resonate with the public will be adopted. Whacko ideas advocated by .99% will not.

Looks like some of those wacko ideas are starting to catch on.

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/201...rica-in-3-maps/

[Big Dave2]

Stay on topic. Which specific parts of the current Libertarian platform are you referring to as whacko ideas?

Hold onto your horses. Rush, Beck and Jason Lewis haven't covered that yet.