Hit the road, Leslie!

[zepman]

Both Ponder AND Jackson were reaches when they were taken.

Ponder was the big reach IMO and Spielman made the HUGE mistake of "crowning" him the day he was drafted. Once Cassel was brought in there should have been an "open" competition for the starting QB duties.

I don't think it's a reach at all to say that the Vikings would have been playing a meaningful game yesterday had Cassel started from Pittsburgh going forward. To me, Fraziers lack of evaluating the talent on his own team is reason enough to give him his walking papers. Many more examples of this same thing through-out the line-up...most of which were painfully obvious to us all as we watched this train-wreck of a season.

Frazier made his own bed.....

[CaptainMusky]

I there Frazier's hands may have been tied a bit but you may never know to what extent. Who brought in Freeman? Who decided go start him one game and with little prep and then never sniff the field again? Who made the decision on ponder? Was Leslie even given any latitude in decisions facing the qb position? Or were they handed down to him?

I don't know the answer but I feel there is more here than we know.

[zepman]

Who cares about Freeman...he played in one game and that was it. It's not our $$$ that was spent.

I don't blame them for taking a flyer on a guy....

[CaptainMusky]

That was just one example I was using to illustrate that I think Frazier's hands were tied. I think it was very obvious in his post game conference when he said "it was a group decision" . To me that means it wasn't his. Had it been he would have taken ownership. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he did an exemplary job but I think there are things here outside his control.

Its like giving a 12 year old a small bucket and tell them to wash the fleet of fire trucks with the water and soap that's in it.

[zepman]

I agree. His hands were tied from the very beginning. He was, after all, given Ponder as his QB.

NO coach could have won consistantly with Ponder taking the snaps....

And....no coach moving forward will be able to win here unless the QB position is FIXED!!!!

I would cut Ponder TODAY!! He wouldn't even be a consideration for next year and I could care less what his contract is or who the next coach will be.

[Mid-Lake Rock]

Not directing this at you Zep. If I were the Vikings I would have kept Frazier as coach for at least the next two seasons.

Look at the jobs that are open right now. There are better spots to land than the Vikings. In two years they will be opening the new stadium and might have a legit young quarterback to develop. If I'm a top NFL coaching candidate, that situation is much more appealing that spending the next two years in a college stadium with a mess at quarterback and a defense that needs rebuilding.

The only benefit of taking the Viking job right now is possibly having some say in drafting a quarterback this year.

[DrJuice1980]

Ponder, Ponder, Ponder. Yeah he stunk it up but he ain't the only reason we sucked. That defense we had out there was terrible and if I recall Frazier is a defensive minded head coach. LB play sucked big time up until the end and even then it was only slightly better than than marginal, pretty much average.

[hawgchaser]

Rock,

I predict you'll be banned from posting about the Vikings for being too realistic. I don't think there will be many coaching candidates on the Vikings wish list that have any interest in risking their careers here. Little upside for an up and comer...even less for a veteran coach.

[Big Dave2]

Ponder, Ponder, Ponder. Yeah he stunk it up but he ain't the only reason we sucked. That defense we had out there was terrible and if I recall Frazier is a defensive minded head coach. LB play sucked big time up until the end and even then it was only slightly better than than marginal, pretty much average.

You have an unhealthy obsession with linebackers.

Seems funny how the team with the best QB won the division even though they also have a terrible defense.

[zepman]

Ponder, Ponder, Ponder. Yeah he stunk it up but he ain't the only reason we sucked. That defense we had out there was terrible and if I recall Frazier is a defensive minded head coach. LB play sucked big time up until the end and even then it was only slightly better than than marginal, pretty much average.

Frazier even mentioned the lack of a presence at the QB spot at his presser today...

Look at the coaches who were fired today...most are in the same situation we are concerning a QB.

It's pretty black and white....

[Scott K]

yup, black and white. They all need new MLB's

[FISHINGURU]

2013-2yrs = 2011. Thats the year 'Blunder' and 'McNubb' as you so eloquently called them, joined the Vikings. So I would say they are squarely on Ltl Ricky's shoulders. Freeman is this year. So 3 out of the 4 QBs on staff are his guys, on his GM watch.

I still say your starter for next year is Freeman with Ponder as back-up. My gut tells me that... yes that's my opinion.

Ken, Ken, Ken, check your math please, for the last time Spielman became the GM in 2012, that would be 2 yrs, the 2012 and the 2013 season, quit talking about 2011 he wasn't the GM then.

There are already reports that the team is going to go with Cassel and draft a rookie QB then get rid of Ponder and Freeman unless the new coaches think different.

[LABS4ME]

Doh!!!! Nice math... Ha! Better bone up up on them thar rithamatic skills.

Oh well you love Spielman... He's all yours and I'm glad. Hope it all works out for them... He better start locking Cassell down now so he doesn't exercise his player option. Still something rotten in Denmark with Spielman's desire to keep Freeman on the payroll as a non roster player for the entire season when he didn't have to AND he could've taken the portion of the contact they didn't pay him and use it to increase this coming year's cap.... None of that makes sense.

[zepman]

I don't think the Freeman deal has played itself out yet....

Frazier and Spielman both very uncomfortable talking about this situation since he was signed. All signs would indicate he's gone but nobodies said squat in relation to his status on the team moving forward. I wonder if Frazier hated the signing and Spielman still likes the guy...IDK??

I wonder...would we receive any compensation for him at all (draft pick)if he were to sign and play with another team next year??

[FISHINGURU]

I don't love Spielman, I just don't think he should be fired based off his 2 yrs of being GM. The drafts have been solid, none of the QB's have been his doing except Cassel and Freeman. We probably would of won the division if Cassel would of been starter this year. Seems to me this coaching staff had a nack for starting the wrong guys all season.

I think the only reason we signed Freeman is because at that time both Blunder and Cassel were injured. Would of been a nice time to find out what the man with 5 names could do but the organization must of seen enough from that guy to never want to give him a chance.

Maybe if Cassel leaves we roll with Freeman on the cheap while grooming a rookie QB. Who's to say Freeman doesn't turn out to be decent after learning the playbook and a full offseason and training camp? He might end up a pie stain but in reality it only costed the team a couple million, to us that is alot but in football that is peanuts.

We should have a real nice salary cap this season.

[nonteepical]

I would dump AP and sign Gerhart.

I agreed with this 3 years ago. Still do.

[hawgchaser]

It's my observation that teams with/from winning cultures spend their money where they HAVE to in order to build a competitive team. Eddie Lacy ran for 1112 yards and received $364 per yard for his efforts. AP ran for 1266 yd. and received $8,886 per yard for his effort. I can't see that the extra 154 yards he gained over Lacy were worth $10.8 million, but I can't see that a Jerad Allen sack is worth $1.2 million either.

[MUSKY18]

Lacy is also under a rookie contract and can't be paid the AP type of money. NOW.....if he keeps it up for another two years, when his rookie contract runs out, I bet his dollars per yard will be much higher than it is right now!

[Scott K]

It would be hard for the Packers to pay 40 million for just a QB and RB

[hawgchaser]

I realize Lacy's low budget now and for the next three years. By my observation, quality RBs are the most fragile and replaceable offensive players. The winning cultures seem to use them until they start wanting too much cap money or they break down and then either release them of trade them to other teams. With 45% of the Vikings cap money tied up in 5 players this past year, they really limited their ability to fill the many voids that need filling. I don't know how they ended up, but the Vikings in late Sept had the second highest payroll in the league. Long term high dollar contracts (quarterbacks excluded) seem to be more attractive to the wannabees than the perennial winners. Just my observations and they could be wrong.

[BuckSutherland]

I realize Lacy's low budget now and for the next three years. By my observation, quality RBs are the most fragile and replaceable offensive players. The winning cultures seem to use them until they start wanting too much cap money or they break down and then either release them of trade them to other teams. With 45% of the Vikings cap money tied up in 5 players this past year, they really limited their ability to fill the many voids that need filling. I don't know how they ended up, but the Vikings in late Sept had the second highest payroll in the league. Long term high dollar contracts (quarterbacks excluded) seem to be more attractive to the wannabees than the perennial winners. Just my observations and they could be wrong.

And we have a winner!!!!!

You cant tie up your money in a useless RB and DE and expect to win it all or even make the playoffs on a regular basis. How many good RBs has Tom Brady worked with??? How many superbowls has he been to since 2000? How many have we been to??

Maybe you can talk some sense into these dolts hawgchaser. I didnt know there was anyone else in MN that actually GOT IT.

[zepman]

Buck...We don't have a Tom Brady.

When the opportunity arose to pay a QB, we did. 20 million a year to a Mr. Brett Favre.

I'm sure when we find our future franchise QB...we'll pay him. Otherwise, your point is not valid. It's impossible to pay someone who doesn't exist.

[BuckSutherland]

Buck...We don't have a Tom Brady.

When the opportunity arose to pay a QB, we did. 20 million a year to a Mr. Brett Favre.

I'm sure when we find our future franchise QB...we'll pay him. Otherwise, your point is not valid. It's impossible to pay someone who doesn't exist.

You are missing the point. The point is we SHOULD NOT keep the stupid RB and DE, but instead we should use them to get our franchise QB so we can pay him. Jared Allen and AP to the Colts for the number one selection a few years ago may have got it done for Luck. A star RB and star DE are not important in winning a championship.

[zepman]

I'll agree on the RB but not the DE.

DE's and outside pass rushers are frequently some of the highest paid positions in the league...and most sought after.

Jared Allen has been the best or top 2 DE in the league since he's put on an NFL jersey. You don't like him...we get it. He earned his $$$ here in Minnesota and now he'll move on.

And by the way, your pipe-dream of AP and JA to the Colts for the #1 pick is laughable.

[hawgchaser]

I enjoy watching highlights of Allen's sacks, but also credit him with partial responsibility the Vikings being in the lower tier as far as run defense. My point is that in the interim til the Vikings could get a franchise quarterback, it would seem reasonable to be building a team "as if" they already had one. With all the money spent, they have the worst pass defense in the league; they're less than mediocre against the run; they're close to the top in sacks allowed...not to mention their special teams defense. Barring a miracle quarterback emerging next year, the money pits will be past their prime when a franchise quarterback hits his stride and he'll have a very weak supporting cast on both sides of the ball to complement him. I don't see how the Vikes would be ready for a run with the cast they're now supporting

[FISHINGURU]

No team is happy, the teams with great QB's are always looking for a running game, the teams with great RB's are always looking for a passing game.