Non-Oxy gas in my truck?

[SkunkedAgain]

I thought that I remembered reading at the pump that you're not supposed to put non-oxy gas into your vehicles unless it calls for it.

I use the non-oxy, higher-octane in my snowmobile and chainsaws. I usually take up a big can of it and if I don't use it all, dump it into my truck's gas tank for the drive home.

Do they tell you not to put it in your vehicle's tank for pollution issues or engine issues?

[Robert Skow]

You have to use at least 91 octane non-oxy gas in most most foreign cars. My Saab, BMW, and both my former and current Mercedes did as well. I also had an '01 Land Rover disco 2 that the engine would start knocking within a couple miles if you used lesser octane oxygenated gas tho it would quit if octane boost additive was used which I carried with me as not everywhere in SW minnesota/NW Iowa carries 91 and up. I do see better gas milage and a little more spunk out of it and have some thought to it burning cleaner inside your engine. The warnings on the gas pumps here say "for snowmobiles, small engines, and classic cars only" or something to that effect but as I said my foreign car owners manuals say to use it only. There's my two cents everyone.

[leech~~]

1 hour ago, Robert Skow said:

You have to use at least 91 octane non-oxy gas in most most foreign cars. My Saab, BMW, and both my former and current Mercedes did as well. I also had an '01 Land Rover disco 2 that the engine would start knocking within a couple miles if you used lesser octane oxygenated gas tho it would quit if octane boost additive was used which I carried with me as not everywhere in SW minnesota/NW Iowa carries 91 and up. I do see better gas milage and a little more spunk out of it and have some thought to it burning cleaner inside your engine. The warnings on the gas pumps here say "for snowmobiles, small engines, and classic cars only" or something to that effect but as I said my foreign car owners manuals say to use it only. There's my two cents everyone.

Welcome to the forum Robert.  That is one heck of a line up of nice cars you have and have had there.  

[BobT]

I may have experienced a problem with 87 octane E10 for the second time in my life. Funny thing is, it was with my ice auger again, although a different brand. The auger I have now is a Jiffy Model 30. The one I had previously was an old old auger. I believe it was an Ice King 3.0hp. If I remember right, I suspect it had the same engine and carburetor as my Jiffy or something extremely close. 

I had been fighting my Jiffy for the past couple years. It would run fine at idle but run out of gas when I throttled up to drill a hole. I had that carb apart and cleaned it so many times I could do it blindfolded. It would work for a short time and then act up again. I finally appear to have got working normally again. It hasn't run this well since it was new. 

I talked to a retired mechanic friend of mine and he made a comment that got me looking for a screen in the fuel inlet port and sure enough there it was. I couldn't figure out how to remove the gas line barbed fitting so I literally emptied a can of carb cleaner inside and it has worked great since. I can actually adjust the carb fuel ratio now. 

What he told me was that the ethanol in the fuel can cause a light film to condense and this can plug the small ports in the carb. He explained like this. You know how when water evaporates it leaves behind a white film behind from the inert materials and/or contaminants. The same thing happens with ethanol in fuel. 

I don't understand how my chainsaw which has is much smaller ported carb doesn't give me trouble and he thought maybe because the chainsaw has the foam fuel filter inside the tank whereas my auger only relies on the screen in that barbed fuel inlet. 

I don't know but it does work now!  Now I have to hang on for dear life when drilling so I don't fall on my face when it goes through so fast. Woo-Hoo!!

[delcecchi]

On 4/18/2018 at 6:43 AM, BobT said:

I may have experienced a problem with 87 octane E10 for the second time in my life. Funny thing is, it was with my ice auger again, although a different brand. The auger I have now is a Jiffy Model 30. The one I had previously was an old old auger. I believe it was an Ice King 3.0hp. If I remember right, I suspect it had the same engine and carburetor as my Jiffy or something extremely close. 

I had been fighting my Jiffy for the past couple years. It would run fine at idle but run out of gas when I throttled up to drill a hole. I had that carb apart and cleaned it so many times I could do it blindfolded. It would work for a short time and then act up again. I finally appear to have got working normally again. It hasn't run this well since it was new. 

I talked to a retired mechanic friend of mine and he made a comment that got me looking for a screen in the fuel inlet port and sure enough there it was. I couldn't figure out how to remove the gas line barbed fitting so I literally emptied a can of carb cleaner inside and it has worked great since. I can actually adjust the carb fuel ratio now. 

What he told me was that the ethanol in the fuel can cause a light film to condense and this can plug the small ports in the carb. He explained like this. You know how when water evaporates it leaves behind a white film behind from the inert materials and/or contaminants. The same thing happens with ethanol in fuel. 

I don't understand how my chainsaw which has is much smaller ported carb doesn't give me trouble and he thought maybe because the chainsaw has the foam fuel filter inside the tank whereas my auger only relies on the screen in that barbed fuel inlet. 

I don't know but it does work now!  Now I have to hang on for dear life when drilling so I don't fall on my face when it goes through so fast. Woo-Hoo!!

I think it is a matter of the material involved.   Ethanol can corrode some metal and dissolve some organic stuff like rubber or plastic that gasoline doesn't affect.   Or so some sources say.     

[jigginjim]

Ethanol May also corrode seals in carbs, causing leaks and doesn't produce the power non-ethanol gases do.

I used non-ethanol, in my 2008 chevy purchased in South Dakota, while towing my 8 X 16 Ice Castle back from Rapid City. My MPG went up from 9.5 going west to 12 mpg coming east to Minnesota. The cost difference was 30 cent, but the performance was hugh.  

[rundrave]

12 minutes ago, jigginjim said:

I used non-ethanol, in my 2008 chevy purchased in South Dakota, while towing my 8 X 16 Ice Castle back from Rapid City. My MPG went up from 9.5 going west to 12 mpg coming east to Minnesota. The cost difference was 30 cent, but the performance was hugh.  

You also have to factor into that "flat" South Dakota rises more than a half mile in elevation from east to west. Have made that same trip many times in my lifetime. Its more elevation related than fuel. You were going down hill on your way back. To put that into perspective Rapid city is at 3200ft elevation and Sioux Falls is at 1470 ft. Your elevation goes about another 500ft lower as you get into Mn. Sure there are a few  ups and downs but its significantly all down hill when you head West to East.

[Hoey]

Wind and air density are also big factors in mpg.

[sunniewally]

so how old is the gas at the pumps really? If it starts to deteriorate as so as its refined it could be old by the time it gets to your car.

[jigginjim]

I have done a lot of towing of the ice castle, I rather doubt the fact of the west to east vs east west. also had another  time going from Minnesota to Nashville. The gas in the south didn't have the ethanol that we have to have here.

[Pat K]

On 1/24/2010 at 5:47 PM, Tyler23 said:

anyone know where you can get non oxy gas around the mankato area?

Kwick Trips carry non oxy in 91 octane

[Mike89]

read the pumps they tell ya what for oct and non-oxy..  

[Hoey]

22 hours ago, Pat K said:

anyone know where you can get non oxy gas

Look here.  MN Hot Rod Assoc Non-Oxy Joints

[BobT]

On 7/27/2018 at 12:15 PM, sunniewally said:

so how old is the gas at the pumps really? If it starts to deteriorate as so as its refined it could be old by the time it gets to your car.

I'm guessing it isn't very old at all. Most places around here in rural MN are resupplied weekly if not more than once a week. It is also stored under ground where it is kept cooler and that slows aging. 

[BobT]

On 7/26/2018 at 11:01 AM, jigginjim said:

Ethanol May also corrode seals in carbs, causing leaks and doesn't produce the power non-ethanol gases do.

I used non-ethanol, in my 2008 chevy purchased in South Dakota, while towing my 8 X 16 Ice Castle back from Rapid City. My MPG went up from 9.5 going west to 12 mpg coming east to Minnesota. The cost difference was 30 cent, but the performance was hugh.  

I have just the opposite experience. 

 

Every year since 2001, I have made a run up to the Lac Seul in Ontario. I started out with a 2001 F150 with 5.4L V8. In 2009 I traded into another F150 with a newer designed 5.4L V8. In 2016 I traded again into a new F150 and this time with a 2.7L V6 Ecoboost. I've pulled two different boats over those years too. 

 

Until recently, Canadian gasoline was non-oxygenated and it was a given that my fuel economy would drop when I put Canadian fuel into my trucks. My experience showed a drop of about 12% - 15%. I also believe my boat loses economy for the same reason but it is nearly impossible to tell for sure or prove it out. 

 

I believe it has to do with engine design and tuning. My trucks and my boat are designed and tuned to run on 87 octane with 10% ethanol blend. Running high octane non-oxygenated is not recommended because it may reduce performance. This is stated right in my owner's manuals and it makes perfect sense. The on-board computer system is tuned to perform best using the oxygenated 87 octane fuel.

Edited July 31, 2018 by BobT