Elysian

[Norselander]

JD,

I don't know if the resort is still open, but I do know that Wabedo and Little Boy are wonderful Minnesota Lakes. Because I am familiar with both Little Boy and Madison, I made a comparison of the two Lakes. This is what I found: The two lakes are similar in size, Madison with 1113 acres and Little Boy with 1372. Both have a fair amount of deep water. The last gill net results by the DNR on Madison produced 7.5 walleyes per netting—not that high compared to some other lakes, but not too bad either. On Little Boy DNR gill nets produced 7.3 ‘eyes per set, almost exactly the same as Madison. On the matter of size, however, the Madison ‘eyes averaged 2.26 lbs while the Little Boy ‘eyes averaged 1.19 lbs. That is, the walleyes in Madison were almost twice as big, on average. What accounts for the difference?

It isn't fishing pressure, because Madison has more fishing pressure than Little Boy. Then what is it? In Madison there are 3 walleyes for each northern, and in Madison the northern's average size is only 1.2 lbs. One pound northerns won't eat too many 2 lb. walleyes. In Little Boy, however the ratio of northerns to walleyes is one to one. In addition, in Little Boy the average northern weighs in at 3 lbs. while the average walleye is only 1.2 lbs. (The DNR imposed a 24” to 36” slot for northerns in Little Boy.) Little Boy also has numerous large muskies.) Three pound northerns will make short work of 1.2 lb walleyes. So in Little Boy, the walleyes seem to disappear before they get much bigger than a pound. I wonder why? (In Mille Lacs, the northern to walleye ratio is 1 to 8.)

So can a lake be managed for northerns and walleyes at the same time? Unless the lake is like Mille Lacs with terrific natural reproduction, the answer is no.

[Team Otter]

Good information Norselander. You did some homework there.

[Team Otter]

Thanks for the compliment jdbolton1. Perhaps my reports could also be viewed in 3-D.

[rgoi812]

Post deleted by rgoi812

[Team Otter]

Please move this to "Sharing Recipes" under the 'Misc. Forums'. Thank you.

[james_walleye]

I think if you look at the stats of most lakes in this area compared too northern MN lakes you'll find most lakes in this area have bigger than average walleye than those up north. They simply grow faster down here.

Every study i've ever seen on eating habits of northerns and muskies show that walleyes are waaaaay down on the list of prey. All you have too do is think about it. Name the best muskie lakes in this state: Mille Lacs, Winnie, LOTW, Leech, Vermillion, Cass and so on. They are all also premier walleye lakes. If these lakes full of muskies dont have their walleye populations decimated, i highly doubt the 3 lb northerns in Elysian will decimate that lake. Its always been as good of a pike lake as it has a walleye lake. When you clean the northerns out of Elysian they are full of the same thing as the walleyes, carp and bullheads.

I fish Big Winnie an awful lot and you'll be hard pressed too find a lake that is more overrun with northerns right now. Its unreal. But that lake has also never been in better shape with its walleye fishing. And these walleyes are so weed orientated on this lake, they are right in there with the northerns year around. But it doesnt seem too matter, the walleyes are still as numerous as ever and the average size on the lake is as good as ever. Otter can back me up about this lake, your up there just as much as I am Otter.

[Fish'n guy]

I agree with you 100% James! Very good point!!

[Team Otter]

Comparing some of the bigger lakes to Elysian may be a bit off but the point is still the same. I think ample northern populations in a lake help maintain consistent competition for the bait fish unless a particular lake becomes overrun with "the slime".

[Norselander]

Answer to Mr. James Walleye,

Thank you for your reply. The questions you raise are something about which reasonable people can disagree, and I think there is value in some disagreement and discussion of the matter. I also thank you for keeping the disagreement on a friendly basis. I will try to do the same. Large lakes with good natural reproduction are pretty different from Elysian, nevertheless, large lakes have a story to tell, too.

I have fished all the lakes you mentioned. They are all great lakes. I have not only fished them, I have also gone to the DNR website to look at the gill net data provided; it really tells an interesting story. The DNR website has gill net data for four of the lakes you mentioned. They are Mille Lacs, Winnie, Vermilion and Leech. Because the walleye population in Leech has been severally damaged by some 10,000 cormorants, it is a special case, and I won’t use it for comparative purposes. (Apparently cormorants do like walleyes.)

Concerning the other three lakes, as you correctly point out, Winnie has lots of northerns—8.3 per gill net set says the DNR. That’s a lot. Should we be surprised, then, that Winnie reveals the fewest walleyes of the three lakes per gill net set (12.9 per set in Mille Lacs, 14.3 per set in Vermilion, but only 5.7 per set in Winnie). In addition, the walleyes, on average, in Winnie are small—1.13 lbs which is very similar to the size of Little Boy walleyes, while the average size of the walleyes in Mille Lacs is almost twice that at 2.15 lbs—virtually identical to the size of the walleyes in Madison. (Both Madison and Mille Lacs have few northerns in comparison to the number of walleyes.)

I have a deep personal interest in this question, because I had a cabin on Little Boy Lake for fifteen years. I saw the walleye fishing in Little Boy go from fantastic to something far less than that after the DNR decided to manage the lake for northerns, muskies and walleyes, as they say. I only fish walleyes. I have no quarrel with people who fish for northerns and muskies. Winnie is a great lake for that. So is Little Boy. But because I only fish for walleyes, I no longer fish either Winnie or Little Boy. I now fish local lakes plus Mille Lacs and LOTW. I am not that great of a fisherman, so I need to go where the fish are numerous, where I can snag some by accident if nothing else.

At the same time, there are many factors that account for the walleye populations in various lakes. All I am saying is that the number of northerns, as well as their size, is one of the significant factors. I believe that we need to add it to the equation as we see what the future holds for Elysian. In Elysian there is one northern for every two walleyes—25 northerns per gill net set. That’s a lot, and I do have this confession to make—I sure wish I liked to eat northern more than what I do.

[Team Otter]

Again, good information Norselander. I like the passion for this subject. Let me just say that I would rather have northerns in a lake than not.

[james_walleye]

The comparison between say a Winnie and Elysian that i was making was simply that northerns are northerns for the most part and studies that i've seen show walleyes are down the list on the northern pikes menu. Now i suppose in some lakes that definately may be different but i would think for the most part it would hold true in most places.

You might definately have something there norse. I know the DNR is telling people on Winnie too keep those little slimers because they are so over abundant and they are the most voracious eaters. I'd be curious too see what year those numbers you saw on Winnie were taken. Average walleye size in a lake can be affected by many different factors. What i can tell you is this about Winnie though. Every year the northerns get more numerous it seems too me. What is very apparent though without dispute is that the average size of the walleyes gets bigger every year, due in big part too the slot. When i first really started fishing the lake about 7 years ago it was pretty tough too catch an eye over 19". Now for me when im up there later in summer it pretty much goes half of the walleyes are 18-19" and up too about 22". In a tourney i fished the first weekend of August up there we had 14 legal keepers in 2 days (some were put back of course) and 20 fish outside of the slot, many over 20". So although its possible the northerns are affecting things in the lake, its also apparent that the slot is having a bigger and better impact than what the northerns are doing. So first as i stated i'd be curious as too see what year those numbers were taken because if they are a couple yeard old the numbers would definately be a bit different, and second you should get that lake back on your list of lakes too fish because at this point its pretty much second too none and its better and better every year.

[Team Otter]

Elsyian..."The Next Winnie".

[Norselander]

Ottter,

As usual I agree with you 100%. I also wish to thank you for the excellent information you post on the fishing reports. In my book, learning new methods and strategies for fishing, then trying them out, is one of the most rewarding aspects of the fishing experience. We also need to keep in mind how fortunate we are in Southern Minnesota to have access to some of the best walleye (and northern) lakes in the nation. We can also travel to Canada if we wish.

Mr. James Walleye, thanks for the update on Winnie! You have much more recent experience with the lake than I do. At your advice, I will try it again. Let me add, I really appreciate your gracious approach to the discussion!

A blessed Christmas season to all!

[gr]

At this point in time I would say even better than winne. I love fishing some of the best water in MN when its only 20 min away.

[Team Otter]

The reports come with the territory. Glad you enjoy.

[clamtrap]

heard a rumor that someone fell through Elysian sat night there where fire trucks police and medics out there just woundering if this is true or not. a reply would be really great I really don't want to see anyone get hurt or killed for a few fish thanks

[dougger222]

Of all the pike I've cleaned only one had an eye in it, it was caught on LOW.

Seen a number of pike in pike though.

Just an FWI, a 20lb catfish can kill and eat the same things a 20lb pike can.

[jdbolton1]

As someone stated earlier(I believe N-lander), I think it (Northerns eating walleyes) fits into the equation somewhere. Pike are voracious eaters. I have caught many northerns on lures and when unhooking them I see the tail of a walleye sticking out their throats. How they believe they are still hungry when they have not even fully eaten their last meal is beyond me. The big difference here is most of these northerns(not all)have come from remote Canadian lakes and walleyes may just be their main forage up there as they don't have the variety to choose from as in Southern Minnesota. Still, I have to believe where northerns and walleyes exist in the same lake northerns munch on them plenty(just simply my opinion).

[harvey lee]

Many times while fishing for pannies in the shallower water around weeded areas you will find northerns feeding.

[Guest]

Elysian,

I've caught large mouth bass with tails of fish sticking out of their mouths and yet they still hit my crankbait. Northerns are not the only fish that prey on walleyes. I agree that all northerns caught should be taken from the lake. I'm not sure why they aren't allowed to be fished for year round.

[Fish'n guy]

I tried spearing on Elysian today for northerns and man was the water murky. Just barely enough to spear in. I didn't see any northerns, but I wouldn't doubt they are still down there. I wanted to go and try the spot I had been catching them in about a week ago and then I noticed that there were waves out there when there was no open water in sight last week!! SACRY and 6 inches of junk ice. Be careful out there cause the open water keeps growing and the ice conditions are deteriorating.

[honker23]

I think we are forgetting about the MAIN source of food for the pike and walleye. Carp, bullheads, buffalo, etc... anyone familiar with this lake knows that it is filled with rough fish, and I believe most of the game fish will feed on them or the young ones I guess. But the new year classes of walleye will have a tougher time which is why I think there should be a slot or reduced limit on some the first year classes, but what do I know.

[buzzball]

so is there any ice out on elysian now? I have tommorrow off and want to go fishing.is the ice safe any where round faibault or elysian?

[james_walleye]

Thats what i've been saying also honker, the fish feed on the roughfish in that lake. The northerns have no reason too chase eyes with all the bullheads and carp. The northerns obviously didnt have an effect on the first classes of fingerlings introduced so why would they eat the eyes now that they are more mature? That lake was full of pike after the last "freeze out", fish that survived and they didnt seem too do anything too the population.

[honker23]

Thats why the fish grow at the rate they do.

It seems like a common theme on this lake is, take take take..... It's either northerns are killing the walleyes or they are just slimers so kill em.

Then it's the lake might freeze out so keep em all..... or there's no reproduction so whats the difference.....

The first one is always the toughest to throw back, then you don't think so much about it. I guess people go through an evolution as a sportsman and some remain in the primative form. Sorry this is off track, but it gets frustrating living next to the lake and watching this.

[Team Otter]

I think you have the right train of thought honker23. Thanks for your input.

[vexilar23]

Your never going to see a lower limit or a slot on a lake that freezes out every 3 years it just wouldn't make alot of sense. I noticed on walleye opener and this summer that the walleyes had baby carp in their stomachs but this winter i have just seen a couple of bullheads alot of frogs and the majority have had baby bluegills with one walleye having 18 in his stomach. I think the term sportsmen is only being used to describe people who catch and release all of their fish, i disagree with that, i enjoy eating fish and have no problem cooking up a meal of fresh walleye for my friends and family a couple times a week and i don't feel that makes me any less of a sportsmen. The DNR has put 2.5 million walleyes a year in Lake Elysian since it froze out last i believe the lake can handle the fishing pressure it is getting but in order for there to be a variety of year classes we need the people in charge of running the aeration systems not to drop the ball.

[katoguy]

The eyes I sliced the sides off had empty bellies.

Although I understand the point you are making, I disagree that the term "sportsmen" is only used with catch and release fisherman. That is just an attempt to try to get your point across.

Do you, vexilar23, help pay for the aeration? Are you worried about being sued by relatives of the people that have drowned out there?

[Bosheepus]

Some Guys need to quit whining!! Like Vexilar said.........2.5 million fry........ Let's take this nonsense to another lake that the DNR doesn't show nearly as much attention!!

[katoguy]

Who is whining?

vexilar23 made it sound like someone was attacking him for eating walleyes and thus he was not a "sportsman". I think he was reading something into what is not there. Much the same as you perhaps?

I couldn't care less if you kill your legal walleyes. (Just leave the bass to swim!)