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Cicada

Rate Manny as a complete baseball player.

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Cicada

I work with a high school kid that thinks Manny is the best ever. I keep telling him to find another idol. Tell me what you think of Manny as a COMPLETE baseball player. I rate him a 1.5 tops.

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buzzsaw

I'm with you, Manny is a clubhouse cancer.....

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Spinner1

One of the best hitters currently in the game. One error this year. Would be one of the stars on any team in MLB. Personality definitely detracts as an overall player/person. Comes off as a very selfish person to me.

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Cicada

The one error is deceiving. Hard to mess up what you don't go after. Saw highlights a couple of weeks ago where he kicked a couple of balls and just pointed at the ball so the center fielder could go get it for him. Embasrrassment to the game, period.

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Reynolds

I will never forget in particular one of his mental lapses in the outfield. I believe a ball was hit to deep centerfield and was being fielded by Damon. Manny was somewhere in between Damon and the cutoff man. So Damon attempts to throw the ball to the cutoff only to have Manny dive to catch the throw, and then he proceeds to throw the ball to the cutoff man himself who is about 30ft away. What was he thinking??? confused.gif I don't believe I've ever heard of another outfielder cutting a ball.

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PierBridge

Your friend is a lot closer to reality then you are....to rate Manny Ramirez a 1.5 is ridiculous.......he could be the best hitter in the game, certainly one of the best....

I agree he's not very good defensively.....

I would also disagree he is a clubhouse cancer....I think he's extremely immature and has done some dumb things... he reminds me of a freshmen in high school....he's very well liked by his teammates....

I give him 9.5 as Major league ball player... grin.gif

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Cicada

If he were a freshman in high school, they would bench him for all his best qualities. 1.Stupid 2.Selfish. 3.Childish. Can you give someone a 9.5 just bacause he can hit the ball? To me that's not a complete player. They talk about a five tool player. This guy has one tool.

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Maximum12

Cicada, you're letting your dislike of a (Contact Us Please) color your logic.

Manny hits for average, power, & in the clutch. And he may be an *sshole, but his team has a World Series banner with that "cancer" on their team.

Is he sometime embarassing? Yup. Childish? Yup. Jerkish? Yup. But name me a single team who wouldn't jump at the chance to put Manny in their four-hole. You can't because there isn't one. If you want to give him a 1.5 for attitude, fine, go ahead. But as a ballplayer? Not even close.

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fisherman

I give him 9.5 as Major league ball player... grin.gif


That's where I'd rank him. He's also an above average fielder. He could be much better if he tried... He is one of the BEST PLAYERS in the game.

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Cicada

My logic:

He's a one tool player out of five tools. That's 20% or a 2. Deduct .5 because he has David Ortiz hitting in front of him and probably wouldn't be as effective anywhere else. I'll stick with 1.5. I know I'm harsh but I think I'm fair. smirk.gif

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genegodawa

As to defense, I will say he is lucky to have that short porch behind him but I do believe he plays a very adequate OF. Hustle/attitude? - could be better but I wouldn't give up his power for those 2 traits. Overpaid? As an all-around, for sure. He sure is dangerous though and has been every yr. Historically he is up there with the best, but best ever, I don't think so. He is a darn good hitter for sure. You can name lots of guys who are as good all-around players, but for being dangerous at the plate - Manny is really up there so I for one would love to have him hittin' in front of anybody here in Wrigley.

I would normally say it would depend on how much I gotta pay them and who their supporting teammates are, but In my mind, him and ARod and Junior rank up there as guys you would love to have on your team.

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Spinner1

"He's a one tool player out of five tools."

Cicada

Give us your assessment of each of the five tools, and back them up with some numbers. Otherwise you are just trashing him because you don't like him. BTW, I think he should be banned from All-Star Ballots for dissing the fans. But there is a reason he is one of the top vote getters. It's either because he puts up great numbers, or he is just popular with fans. Neither of those options supports your premise. Just go ahead and buy the kid a Manny bobblehead and tell him you were wrong. smile.gif

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fisherman

Quote:

My logic:

He's a one tool player out of five tools. That's 20% or a 2. Deduct .5 because he has David Ortiz hitting in front of him and probably wouldn't be as effective anywhere else. I'll stick with 1.5. I know I'm harsh but I think I'm fair.
smirk.gif


What the heck does it matter that David Ortiz hits in front of him? smirk.gif Manny has noone protecting him. If it were the other way in the batting order. I think Manny would probably have better stats then Ortiz.

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bassNspear

Manny is one of the best hitters in the game. He has a problem in the outfield. He might be able to play the game at a high level, but as a complete ball player, i would rank him 7.5. I dont like his skills away from the plate.

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Cicada

Ok, I messed up. I had one of the five tools wrong. I thought there was only one hitting tool, there are two. They are:

1. Hitting for average. He's at .326, very good

2. Hitting for power. .628 slugging pct, very good

3. Running speed. Not sure, he doesn't choose to run.

4. Arm Strength. Has 7 assists, I had trouble separating left fielders on MLB.com. Probably could be better if he ran for any balls.

5. Fielding ability. One error in 118 games. You can't boot something you don't go after.

He's a great hitter, not a great, or even good complete player.

If he were traded to the Twins, would I change my mind? Yes, I would no longer follow the Twins. If I had a kid and he thought giving so little effort was worthy of the kind of worship Manny gets, I'd have to consider myself to be void of any parental skills. I'd rather someone value hard work, resect for the game, your teammates, and your fans. Being I was wrong with the five tool thing, I had to reconsider the 1.5 rating. I'll give him 2.5. grin.gif

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PierBridge

You sound like a politician backed into a corner......you LOSE.... grin.gif

Send me the kids address I'll send him the jersey you owe him..... grin.gif

Thanks, I forgot how strong his arm is... I'm upgrading him to a 9.7 as Major League Player...... shocked.gif

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bassNspear

He cant play the field. Hes one of the best hitters in the game. Its proven, Look at big papa stats, that should tell u right there.

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PierBridge

WOW..I just did some research there is nobody playing the game to today that's been a better hitter then Ramirez the last 12 years....he blows A-Rod out of the water......unreal stat's.....talk about consistency.

9.7 Manny

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Spinner1

Wow Pier, best hitter in 12 years? Even Albert? That's just amazing shocked.gif

I'm going with a 9.7 too. I'd go 9.8 if he wasn't such a butthead about the All-Star game. smile.gif

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bassNspear

Hes great hitter, bad fielder

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PierBridge

Quote:

Wow Pier, best hitter in 12 years? Even Albert? That's just amazing
shocked.gif


Over the last 12 years......do you really think Albert Belle is a better hitter?...... grin.gifwink.gif

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Spinner1

Nope Pier, I was referring to Pujols over a shorter time period. I figured Manny was near the top over the past ten or so, but was surpised to hear he is actually #1.

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juggs

His offense and defense are almost opposites. I've seen him look pretty embarrasing in the field. Can't argue with his bat, though. He's about as good as they come.

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nofishfisherman

as a complete player I wouldn't rank him very high at all.

Offesive= Stud

Defensize= Embarassment

Attitude= Chump

That doesn't make for a very all around player. He was built for the DH role.

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PierBridge

Quote:

Nope Pier, I was referring to Pujols


I knew who you were talking about... shocked.gifgrin.gif

Maybe you guy's are right, Denny Hocking was good fielder and probably a better all around player........ grin.gif

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