What kind of goose is this?

[wingnutken]

[image]Duck Hunting 005[/image]

[ironman]

invisible?

[hanson]

I'm guessing a Cackler.

wingnutken- If you are having trouble posting the image, you can e-mail it to me and I'll get it up for you.

[wingnutken]

Thanks Chris, You have mail. Ken

[Tyler Holm]

Ohhhh, I've seen that goose all to many times. Some people refer to it as a skunk. I've also heard reports of people actually calling that an goose egg. I think there are other names as well. I know it can be awefully confusing.

[hanson]

Here's that strange goose.

[Flick]

Looks like a Quill. God I'd love to shoot one of those.

[cmoredrakes]

looks like a quill lake canadian to me too.

[koutdoors]

I don't know that it's a Quill, looks more like it is just partly albino to me.

[iamgmc]

it must be the elusive epp!!

[Wallydog]

I shot a similar goose a few years ago here in Idaho cept it had a totally white head, light colored bill and feet that weighed around 9-10#, rest marked just like a canda.

A Fish & Game goose biologist called it a "tulloose". Hybridized domestic/canada.

WD

[wingnutken]

I took this picture on the west arm of Lake Minnetonka. There were several hundred geese on the bay that day. They swam a ways out from the time that I saw them to the time that I ran in the house to get the camera. I found a discription of a Quill Lake goose that fits this goose but I have not been able to find a close up pic. Ken

[huntingmaxima]

Just for sh-its and giggles check out the barnacle goose, it could have gotten loose form a game farm. They are raised by a quite a few game farm in MN. I raised wild waterfowl for 23yrs, and most of the ducks that you see in the cabelas in owatanna came from our place. Even all those cans hanging from the ceiling.

[koutdoors]

How was it raising Cans? WOW, that sounds so interesting!! I've raised mallards, that's it. I'd love to hear more about it if you have the time.

[big drift]

Definately a quill IMO.

bd

[Tom Wilson]

All right guys, first of all--nobody take this as an attack on them...

I am not sure about the goose in that photo, because it is so small, but it does kind of look like a Barnacle as mentioned before...

Quill goose--99% probability--no friggin way! I am not trying to come off as an expert, nor am I trying to start a fight, but the so called "quill goose" is so very, very rare, that there is .0000000000001% chance that you would ever see one. By theory they are a hybrid of a cross between a snow goose and a canada goose. They are a fluke of nature that has been blown out of proportion by hunters, and good ole boy's stories until people now think that they are real and there is a substantial population--there is not.

Disclaimer--If you can prove me wrong please do, but I have spent over ten hours researching this on the internet over the last week, and this is all of the information that I found. If I'm wrong, it is due to the lack of published information about it--don't hold it against me.

Here's what I know and what I have researched in the last week.

Story First:

Last Thursday, I was down at the duck pond and this group of young guys comes down there, just as I'm leaving. I am still in my truck when they come back up and they ask me if I saw the quill goose--and making this big deal about it. I have never heard of a quill goose, so I just think Oh well they're talking about one of those farm geese. Then I look at this post shortly after that and here you guys are talking about it. Then I'm talking with a buddy and he says "oh yeah they talk about them on another site all of the time". and so the research started.

#1--HYBRID--when two seperate species combine for whatever reason and create a seperate species. (the new species are sterile and cannot reproduce the new species)

#2--The so called "quill goose" was discovered when two guys hunting near quill lake shot two geese that were apparently a new species. There is one Ducks Unlimited bioligist that has been making quite the plea for the last few years to get it recognized (based only off of that one proofed killing of those two geese), but not even Cornell University recognizes it. It cannot be found in nature with any kind of regularity, and for all of the time that I have spent researching it over the last week I have only found less than six examples of it ever being documented. Now if any of you guys have other information (real information--documented scientific proof--not hearsay)then please share it here.

#3 The photos that I found of the infamous "quill goose" look nothing like the goose pictured here, nor do they look like the one that was at the pond the other day. They look just like a blue phase snow goose (slightly lighter in color) without the white head.

#4 Canada geese have been found to have many variations of color and patterns that are uncommon to their species, and many people mistake these for some kind of different species. My friend has one that is so light grey that it seems white, yet it is not an albino. It is however documented and happens with such frequency that it is recognized and has a name--(however I don't remember what it is). I also found documented proof that a lot of people, since this started, have tried to make claims that they shot a quill, when in fact they shot immature blue phase snows. Again, the quill is not recognized.

#5 Farm geese--and there are many varieties--are no different than Roan ducks to mallards. Ever seen a 7 pound mallard? No, you saw a seven pound Roan--they look just like mallards. There are farm geese that look very much like Canada geese as well. It is also documented that Canada geese will sometimes breed with farm geese.

Again, I am not trying to pi** anybody off, but this is what I have found. Don't bother to respond to this if you're just gonna whine or disagree, but if you can argue about this intelligently then I am more than willing to discuss it.

Here are photos of the goose that was at the pond the other day that at least six different people called a quill goose...

This is not a "quill goose"

This is a hybridized farm goose. The few examples of quills that are noted report that they have black bills and legs/feet. Also, please note the raised rear end of this bird. Canada geese (all subspecies), Cacklers, and Snow geese all have a rear end that sags. Farm geese have a rear end that goes up.

That is what I have found out guy's--It seems (according to the scientific world) that the "quill goose" is an out of control rumor, from something that is a fluke of nature.

Every year it seems someone somewhere shoots a mallard woodie cross, or a mallard pintail cross--they are not natural and they cannot reproduce--neither is a quill.

[Sartell Angler]

way to actually do the research Tom...and nice photos also!

SA/wdw

[TWEET SD]

Quote:

---

Quill goose--99% probability--no friggin way! I am not trying to come off as an expert, nor am I trying to start a fight, but the so called "quill goose" is so very, very rare, that there is .0000000000001% chance that you would ever see one.

---

The one in the first picture posted up there is a quill lake. The one in the second group of pictures is something weird...it's as if it's a hybrid between a canadian and farm goose (or something) AND a quill. I've seen quite a few Quill Lake Canadians and in the last month I've taken pictures of two different ones. It's quite well known that there are such things as a quill lake goose so I don't know why you think it's such a myth..?

First Quill

Second Quill

MYTH??? absolutely not.

[Tom Wilson]

Tweed,

I asked for this to not turn into an argument, so I will say this--nice job on obtaining photos of something that is a fluke of nature. Nowhere in my post did I say that it was a myth--I said it is an abnormality in the natural world, and it does happen, but it happens with a very, very low natural occurrence. I also stated that I was researching it, and that is all of the information that I could find. I agree that snows and canada's will sometimes interbreed, but it is not common, and it isn't like there's a huntable population. It would be like someone stating that there next big deer hunting goal would be to shoot a ten point Doe. Everyone knows that sometimes Doe's grow antlers, for whatever reason, but the chances of you seeing one or shooting one are really slim. Same with the supposed quill. My point to the whole post was that guys shouldn't have their sights set on ever killing one, because they are a fluke--not because they don't exist. If infact that goose in you're photos is a hybrid between a snow and a Canada, it is just that--an interspecies hybrid (again according to the research I've found) it would be sterile and not capable of producing a mixed offspring (ie...a mule)--that is why there is no population of these things. The reason that they are referred to as Quill lake geese is because close to 30-40% of the continental snow goose population frequents that area dring the breeding season, along with a substantial population of Canada geese--therefore, they would see more of this fluke variation. The other point I was making is that I had people telling me that the goose I took photos of was a quill lake goose and I was arguing that. Congrats again on a rare photo opportunity.

[TWEET SD]

I wasn't trying to make a nasty arguement.

And I don't think that Quills are a cross between a snow and a canadian though. I've heard lots of rumors as to what they really are and it seems like nobody really knows. I've heard that there's something in the lakes around Quill Lake that actually turn the feathers a different pigment. It seems strange that the patterns would be so similar every time you see one though. Sometimes the bars on the chest are small, sometimes they are big. Sometimes the white on the neck is small, sometimes it's bigger. Who knows what they really come from? I've actually seen quite a few of them. They are quite common (not common but not completely nonexistent like in other places) where I hunt and I see at least 5 a year. I know a guy who shot 5 of them out of one flock...for some reason they were flying together. Hopefully I see one in the field someday.

[Tom Wilson]

According to the information that I found on several websites and from the folks at Cornell--what is being called the Quill goose is a cross between a snow and a canada. If that isn't the case, then it would have to be a partial form aof albinism--like a pie bald deer, and then it would just be a color variation of a canada. The info though points towards it being a hybrid. I would be interested to know if you have found information that I never found, but this is what I found so far--fun learning new stuff isn't it?

By the way, I didn't think you were nasty, I just thought you misinterpreted my info. There's nothing wrong with debating, as long as we can learn something from each other.

[Ray Esboldt]

I guess I have seen a few geese with white patches on them like that. I just assumed they were doing a little interbreeding with the farm fatties.

I believe Quill Lake is either salt or has an extremely high PH concentration. I suppose something like that could turn feathers of offspring a different color. Kind of a birth defect deal.

It's a good conversation. One of the reasons I like my time in the outdoors so much, is you see the oddities on occasion. It really keeps me coming back for more.

Thanks guys for keeping it civil and doing the research.

[TWEET SD]

I'm on a few other forums and here are some other theories. Like I said, it seems like a never ending debate with countless theories It seems kind of weird to me that there isn't a solid explenation or even a name for the goose out there.

"The "Quill Lake Goose" is not a separate subspecies. It is a genetic mutation that partially affects the birds pigment. It is certain that at least one parent is the carrier (heterozygous) for the albino gene. If both parents were carriers of the albino gene the odds of a true albino bird would be 1 in 4. Most common affects are large white patches (Lack of pigment) on the breast and belly with some or all white coloring on the primary, second and covert feathers on the wings. In more extreme cases it affects the neck, head and tail feathers from becomming black or the lack of. Most often it occurs in the Interior (or Central, or Hudson Bay, Todd’s) Canada Goose (B. c. interior) and Moffitt's. (or Western or Great Basin) Canada Goose (B. c. moffitti) The "Quill Lake" goose has been seen and killed in all the flyways. Most common in the Central Flyway and least in the Pacific. The origin of the name "Quill Lake" still has eluded me. My best guess is one of these geese with this form of genetic mutation was shot in or around Quill Lake, Saskatchewan. Quill Lake is known as the goose capital of the world. And a main destination for waterfowlers pursuing geese."

"I was speaking with a waterfowl biologist about those white breasted birds one time. He referred to them as pie bald geese. He told me it was a research subject for him at one point. He said evidence exist's that folks in them thar neck of the woods attempted to cross breed Canada geese with domestic white geese 50 - 60 years ago in order to make Canada geese more palatable. He advised the the experiment failed and a number of biologists believe those pie bald birds are reminants of what was left of those breeding efforts. I like his theory better as he had some interesting stat's and bit's of info to support his arguments..."

[Sartell Duckman]

I had a friend in High school who had a wild canadian hen pair up and nest with one of their white farm geese. She stayed at the farm for a few years before she disapeared. She had four or five broods and a lot of the offspring looked like canadas with different amounts of white on them. They could fly and most of them migrated with wild geese in the fall. I would guess this happens more and more as canadians become more common and tamer in suburban areas.

[huntingmaxima]

Wilson,this goose is definetly a cross between a siberian redbreasted goose and possibly a farmyard goose of some kiind. i am sure of the redbreasted part though.

[gorrilla]

I'm not writing this to debate or argue just to say that in one of my former ornithology courses we studied migrating geese with the prof. and he gave a similar example and theory to Tom's as the extra white in the Canadas being a color variation of the same species (like piebald deer) and another common reason being the cross breeding with tame(predominatly white) "park" geese they commonly mingle with, which also explained their common dominant nature we observed.

It makes sense to me that these are the geese you guys are seeing since its obvious most of these geese are the "park" type canadas and not the extremely wild and long migrating tundra grubbers likely to inhabit Quill lakes area and avoid spots like the Twin Cities/Rochester winter staging areas. It seems more likely to me and I have degree(s) in Biology and severly years experience both banding and observing Canadas for MN DNR Wildlife census work. Just my two cents though...

[Wallydog]

Thought I'd share nuther variety to the discussion. This is one of two wild? migrants that have shown up in the Boise park system for the last several years.