Best varmint cartridge

[Kodiak]

Here we go, I am taking a poll of which cartridge is best as far as flexibility/cost/speed/accuracy. I want to buy a heavy barrel bolt action for my father for christmas for our upcoming prairie dog hunting trips. My brother has a .223 bushmaster with a heavy barrel, and i am looking at getting a dpms bull 24 special in the spring, but my father does not want an auto...help me out please i am new to varmint hunting..i know .223 is good but there are so many.

[Gissert]

Ok, here is my 2 cents worth.

I love the 220 swift, but buying ammo off the shelf is not as common as the .223 or a 22-250. I reload so it is a non factor for me.

I have two swifts - a Ruger #1 and a Japanese Arisaka action that my dad had built into a swift. Both are very good shooters, and I tend to load them down a bit from their full potential for velocity.

If I did not reload, I would probably go with a .223 or a 22-250, with the 22-250 likely getting the nod.

For shorter range work, I have a .22 Hornet that is a hoot to shoot, and it is a lot quieter that the swifts.

As far as guns go, I would go with a bolt vs the semi-auto. Savage makes great guns. Very accurate, yet inexpensive. If you want to spend more money, Ruger, Winchester, Remington, and have great options too. Tikka has some real nice guns as well.

[Mr Special]

That's a coin toss between the two calibers. But being the fact that your brother and you plan to have .223. I'd say go for the .223 just incase your dad needs to borrow some rounds.

Good luck

[Rost]

I would agree with the .223 option for a couple reasons.

First, it is a proven caliber for predators. Ballistic wise, it's solid. Not as flat or fast as a 22-250, but certainly will do the trick.

The ammo is cheap (relatively speaking) and you can find it basically anywhere. With cheap ammo, I find myself out "plinking" more often than I would if I were shooting a 22-250.

[catman71]

i have to agree with Gissert with the Savage endorsment. You will be happy with a heavy barrel Savage. with enough shooting, your expirience will wasily compensate for the little bit of lost speed the .223 has vs the 22-250. if money wasn't an issue the 22-250 is very nice, but when is that the case. you will have a WAY easier time finding good quality .223 rounds on a budget.

[catman71]

Kodiak, there is a pretty goos gun show the week after next at the RiverCenter (i believe) last year DPMS was there and I got some screamin deals.

[Stratosman]

Good suggestions and insight so far. Anyone have the chance to shoot a .17HMR yet? Nice round, Hornady has the best .17 round, not sure on price though. A bit shorter range than the larger calibers, 200 yards, maybe 250. Good velocity at muzzle, around 2550fps and alot quieter and much less recoil. Ideally, I would have a 22-250 as well as a .17HMR. Use the 22-250 for anything over 200-225 yds.

Guns sure are fun..

[Kodiak]

i will be in the market for the dpms in the spring so the gun show will be a no go for me next week cause some uninsured jerk loser ran into my new 3 week old nissan armada on friday and i have a 500 deductible to pay first!!! i had 600 saved up so far for the bull 24 special...i was saving a 100 a paycheck for one. Where is a good place to find a good used .223 heavy the gun show?

[catman71]

Stratos, I have a Savage .17HMR and take it P-DOG hunting all the time. It is very fun. I haven't shot my .22 since i bought it. You are right, it is like a laser up to 200 and then it gets pretty beat up by the wind.

Kodiak, I just sold a Savage 12VS 22-250 to buy a new one in .223. My reloading buddie moved away so it got to be to much to buy 500 rounds of 22-250 ammo every year. Where to find a used one? Hard to say, for regular easy to find guns it is hard for small time dealers to compete with Cabelas or other big chain stores. I bought a Remington ADL last year for 399. plain black, regular barrel. I use it for my second gun off the bench and have a bi-pod on it for walking around. it is a good enough shooter for P-DOGS and light enough to sneak around for coyotes and stuff back here in MN. Come to think of it, i only paid 379 for my Savage model 12. Sorry about your car man. I dropped a cooler on the wifes car while i was climbing around in the rafters a few weeks ago. So I know how the deductable eats in to a guys fun money...

[HunterLee]

i am all for the 17hmr for little varmits. rabbits gophers and fox not past a 100 yds though. shot a few calling with it and one on the run bout 100 yds. drilled it right in the front shoulder laid there for a bit then got up and kept going. jackrabbits out to 150 are no problem with a good hit and i dont think the wind affects it terrible unless its real windy and for an varmit hunting i woundnt shot anything past 150 or so yards. 22-250's great guns. we hunt alot of fox and coyotes and for hitting them and keeping them down its alot better then a 223. all 5 of us shoot one right now, but i am looking to get a ruger 204 sometime soon. not much different than a 22-250 other than faster and a little bit lighter bullet nad even shoots flatter according to the hornody boxes i looked at. wont blow up the fox and coyotes as bad. but shells for the 204 are very limited. and run about the same as 22-250 shells, just harder to find.

[End of the Line]

I have a .17 Rem, .223, and 220 swift. All have there place. I agree with Gissert on the Swift loads vs. 223. All around 223 best. .17 rem is great too but not going to carry to many shots over 250-300 yards on a windy day. The nice thing is the .17 remington (Not 17 HMR or HM2) is there is so much velocity and virtually no kick. If you shoot a pile arounds over a weekend the body will tell you. I am thinking about the new 223 WSSM too; better ballistics. Put a good scope on whatever you buy though, I'd reccommend at least a 4x12-40. Burris, Nikon, or Leupold. If you cant see, doesnt matter which caliber!

[Kodiak]

END of Line- What is the new 223 WSSM ? I am goign to have to go buy a varmint hunting magazine and read that thing every month so i can get up to snuff.

thanks,

jason

[LOW_Hunter_11]

By far the .17 caliber is the best caliber to use varmit hunting they are very accurate at long ranges.

Brandon

[catman71]

that is a "Super" short magnum. I have not shot one, but i hear that is the real deal. By the way for all of you .17 CENTERFIRE fans, a know a guy who shot himself in the foot with one in Montana. From the limp he still has I'm guessing that there is plenty there to drop a coyote....

[Rost]

I am not sold on the .17 (even though I've never shot one).

Just looking over the ballistics chart makes me wonder. I really don't think you could depend on the .17 at long range. The energy of this bullet drops off to nothing after 100 yrds. I also think the wind will affect the .17 bullet. At 100 yrds, (with a 10 mph crosswind)your bullet will drift 3.3 inches.

As far as pelt damage, I would agree that the .17 is great. I would bet that the .17 bullet rarely passes through an animal therefore you'll never have an exit wound.

[nolte]

Kodiak

Winchester has been introducing these Short Mags here lately and just this year added the 223 WSSM. It looks like the ballistics will be very comparable as the 22-250 or better. Basically it is just like what they did with the 300 WSSM witht he old 300 win mag. Same stuff but with a shorter action. They did this with some other calibers too. Check out the Winchester page and it tells all about it.

[End of the Line]

Winchester & I think maybe Browning are manufacturing guns for 223 WSSM. Better ballistics on a smaller caliber than standard cartridges and the WSM as well.

I agree with the some of the 17 Remington Centerfire. It will most certainly drop anything within 200 yards it is deadly accurate even with factory loads. I have found Remington 20 gr. accu-tip V boat tails are very good. I have used mine out in ND and on a windy day it does drift! The drop is not bad until 250+ yards though. Again for all around easy, reliable, and relatively cheap ammo, the 233 is the best of all worlds. If I were buying 2 varmit calibers I would certainly own a 17 Remington and 220 Swift in a heavy barrel as I do now. I also reccommend any gun you buy have a 24" barrell rather than a 22"

[Kodiak]

so how far of shots can you take with the .17hmr?

[Stratosman]

Maybe 250. maybe. Too light of a load to shoot any farther, loses energy very rapidly because of the small caliber size and is drastically impacted by windage because of that. Trajectory really drops after 200 yards as well, all correlated to light bullet weight. Like most others have stated already. I would like one for close range stuff if I could justify another gun.

[Mark Christianson]

What about the .204?

Anyone have one or know of someone that has one?

I am not saying I am in the market for a varmint gun, but a coworker and myself were at Gander the other day and he was looking at the .204.

[End of the Line]

http:// www. gunnersden .com /index.htm.rifle-cartridges-ballistics. html (Put it back together to get the link)

Here's a Ballistic chart of some of the most common calibers. You can get a relatively good idea of drop and Velocity and understand the basics. Maybe it will help you to decide. Anything smaller than a .223 in my opinion is too small for an ALL AROUND varmit rifle. That leaves you with .223, .22-250 and .220 swift. The 17 HMR and HM2 will not likely kill large varmits like a coyote & fox at 250+ yards. I have shot those too, but do not own either.

[Jackpine Rob]

There has been a lot of chatter about the .204, and a number of guys have done extensive experimenting with them. The general consensus as I read it seems to be that it is a good varmint load - one guy describes it as a .17 Rem on steroids.

The only problem right now is the availability of factory ammo. There are limited loads available, and I am real leery of using the plastic or polymer-tipped bullets on coyote-size game when you have such high velocities.

For general use, I have to agree that the .223 is probably the best all-around caliber - given the wide array of factory ammo (some surprisingly affordable). Personally I own a 22-250 and a .17 Rem, and the .17 is the one that I end up using 99% of the time. It is a sweet little cartridge.

[hunt4food]

I laid awake many nights trying to decide what to buy for my ultimate varmint(mostly prairie dogs) rifle. I ended up buying two. I bought the Savage .17 HMR. with a heavy stainless barrel and laminated stock. I really like this gun out to about 150 yards with no more than about a 10 MPH wind. I am guessing that at this distance and wind speed, my bullet drifts about 3-5". No big deal with the dogs, just correct your error and shoot again. Ammo is very cheap. I also bought a Ruger M77 heavy barrel Stainless laminated. I love this gun and shoot it about 75% of the time. It is way more accurate beyond 100 yards. I shot several dogs out to 350 yards with is this past Summer. I belive 400 yrd shots are very possible. I just need to practice shooting at that distance mor often. I have also shot a few rounds through a Remington 700 in 22-250. It really wasn't noticaebly "better" than my .223 and my ammo is quite a bit cheaper. I was shooting Winchester .223 varmint ammo. It was a 45 grain JHP bullet and they were about $14.00 for a 50 rd. value pack. Those little buggers sent a prairie dog in about 5 directins at once at around 3600 FPS. Go with the .223!!! You will not be disappointed. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned...don't make the mistake I did by going cheap on optics. I cannot describe in words what happens to your eyes after looking through a cheap scope for 3 days straight, but it is enough to make you almost feel "sea sick". Buy the best scope you can afford!!

[Mikinaak]

22-250 boys come on!

just my 2 cents worth, oh and can hit that at 100 yards.

[roosterslayer]

depending on what you are using it for but i really love the .223 60 grain v-max. great on yotes but real hard on fox.

[Kodiak]

I was at cabelas today and seen that HOWA 22-250 varminter thumbhole supreme rifle. That thing was pretty neat, i would like to get one but they where asking a hefty price for a HOWA, where can i get one at a decent price, i would really like one in .223 or 22-250. Also I would like to have a Remington 700 with a thumbhole stock, i really love that thumbhole stock after picking them up.

[End of the Line]

Have you tried online. I get some stuff from "Gunbroker" sometimes.

[Kodiak]

i have never tried gun broker. where do you get the guns shipped too and how much does it cost to get it too the FFL and do you have to have preapproval from the dealer to get it shipped there? I will check it out tonight. I think a remington 700 with a bull barrel and a thumbhole sporter stock would be sweet.

[steiger]

.223 is by far your best choice. we have a ten man group for hunting coyotes and all use .223 besides one, cheap to shoot, i would prefer wolf 55 grain, 1000 rounds for 115$

Back to your dpms talk, I have heard alot of bad thimgs about them, jamming, and the upper recievers go bad alot. I just bought a Rock River AR-15 .223 with a 24inch bull barrel and it is one hell of a gun for an auto i would say a rock river or a bushmaster super varmiter

[Valv]

Quote:

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i have never tried gun broker. where do you get the guns shipped too and how much does it cost to get it too the FFL and do you have to have preapproval from the dealer to get it shipped there?

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I just bought a Savage .243 package and price from LOCAL town dealer was cheaper than the cheapes Gunbroker.com deal on same gun + shipping + FFL dealer fees.

Stick with local, even a Superstore is cheaper and better than Gunbroker.com, it didn't impress me at all. Check all the guns for sale and see how many bids they have.....most of them are at 0 bids unless price is ridiculously low and they have a reserve.

I believe if you are shooting Prairie Dogs a .223 would be great, consider ocst of ammos.

I used to shoot them with a .22LR and buy bricks of 500 every time.

I shoot so many of them if I used my 22-250 or a .223 I would be broke now....

If you travel in to central Wyoming and ask any rancher if you can shoot prairie dogs....they'll hug you and cook you supper....