Global Warming??.....or just a cycle?

[wall_guy_101]

i just thought i'd continue the discussion from the ice reports....leave the subject of a post to that particular post......Anyway, my take on the subject is that the weather hasnt been recorded for much more than a hundred years which may seem to be a long time but who knows how long a cycle can last??

[Surface Tension]

Good idea.

We've been keeping weather records for under 50 years. In that time how can anyone come to any conclusion as to warming or cooling? You look at what the average temp is and thats ALL it is, an average form the time records have been kept.

To have an unseasonable fall, then come to the conclusion we're on a warming trend is unscientific.

Now theres now doubt in the last 75 years we've done more damage to the earth then in the whole existence of man. Is global warming part of that who knows. You have to understand that our impact today can't be measured till we fully understand what the heck we're doing.

[jonny_redhorse]

I certainly agree with Surface Tension...It's a proven fact that we've had many ice ages that have covered the very ground we're standing on ..many times over through the ages...just how do we "really " know where we stand here in modern times in relation and comparison to the weather in regards to thse ice ages?..we don't...man hasn't been on this ball in space long enough to know..."they"(the great scientific minds) ...say ice ages ebb and flow about every 10,000 years....we've been here in america about 300.......and have had the resources and computers only a fraction of that.........my spin on it is that man hasn't been here long enough to make any "stedfast " conclusion to know what the global warming is doing......man is "smart".....but not "that" smart...it's taken nature millions of years to come to what we know as "earth".is man so egotistical" to believe they have it all figured out in say 50 years?....i think not....just my rambling "opinion".......jonny

[CrappieJohn]

Gotta love it Johnny! You hit the nail on the head.

[cloyd]

where as global warming is in discussion ya can talk about our 50years of monitoring weather..

lets face it since our short existant as mankind weve made some drastic impact on our environment

the addition of chemical additives to our air..some rather detrimental compenents to our water an the perment removal of plant an animal species from our planet are all gonna have an effect

granted were not gonna see it tomorrow...but tomorrow arrives none the least at some point in time

scientific studies have shown greenhouse effects are showing up..in 100 years the oceans levels will raise some 240 feet of shoreline will dissapear on thew eastern coast in some places as recently reported on news

El'Nino has become more predominate changing our weather an more weird an stronger storms have been occuring an more are to come

as ice caps melt (both polar caps have suffered this)an the desalizination of our oceans occur well see things become more noticeable

global warming..a definate fact as man keeps thinkin he controls earth an his environment..the more we ignore the cause an effect factor an believe we cant harm our planet..an refuse to take responsibility for our actions..global warming will become worse

welcome to the greenhouse effect..until we as a goverment take control of industrial irresponsibility on a glovbal scale our children's children are in for a world of hurt

say were young..say we havent been here long enuf..say what ya wish..but were making changes to this planet..global warming is part of that fact

[Steve Foss]

The question isn't whether it's getting warmer. It is. And even though we've only been keeping detailed weather records for a short time considering how long there's been weather, scientists are able to get a surprisingly strong sense of historical weather patterns using dendochronology (tree ring analysis from very old living trees) and core samples through glaciers, which, as we know, are formed from eons of snow falling on snow and eventually compressing it into ice. Each winter layer forms a striation, and scientists can gauge weather by analyzing those striations.

The question is: What's causing global warming? Natural global temperature averages do cycle up and down. We're in a warm cycle now. Sometimes, historically, those are simply natural fluctuations, but we KNOW that the thinning ozone layer and holes in that layer (which we've contributed to through the over-emission of so-called greenhouse gasses) allow the sun to warm the earth more than it normally would.

As far as I'm concerned, if it ain't a natural swing this time around, it's our fault. And if it is a natural swing, it's our fault that it's worse than it should be.

The vast majority of scientists who deal with global weather agree that global warming is occurring and that it's induced or strengthened by greenhouse gasses. Anyone who disagrees with that can certainly find some scientists who back them up, because science isn't about rock solid certainty, and the scientific community rarely goes into lock-step agreement on any single issue. Thanks to our current administration, the United States stands nearly alone as one of only a handful of industrialized countries not part of worldwide accords to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions.

[Bobby Bass]

For the few short years that I have left on this earth I would much rather that it got warmer then that of a coming ice age, Which is pretty much a given that since we have had them before we will have another one again. Now don't jump all over me and state all the bad things of global warming, higher tides, shore damage etc etc. I just like the oil bill a tad lower, a little more sun in my face and less scraping the truck window...Just thinking about me not all of humanity.

[Steve Foss]

More global warming, LESS ICE FISHING!

[gunflint]

More global warmer= longer open water season.

I'm no scientist so I don't know who's right. One thing for sure is that I have a hard time believing the leaders of the global warming theory. Most of these people seem to jump from one unconfirmed crisis to another.

Al Gore, Robert Kennedy Jr, Sierra Club, etc. These are not people that I believe when it comes to anything. For alot of groups it's a financial thing. They have to make you believe that they are trying to save the world, or you'll quit sending them money.

I can't prove it (global warming) one way or another, but when I compare the groups that say the world is comming to an end and it's our fault, to the groups that say there's nothing to worry about, for me the latter group has more credibility.

[Steve Foss]

Uff dah! Gunflint, the people/groups you mentioned may lack credibility in many people's eyes, and I'm not standing up and saying I agree with them on everything, but they do not, as you said, "say the world is coming to an end." They are saying that there's a problem we're at least partly responsible for and that will damage our lives if we don't fix it. That seems to me a reasonable approach. Like you, I tend to dismiss groups/people who keep saying the sky is falling.

[dewey1]

how can man create enough pollution to create problems when we only inhabit one fifth of this planet? The rest is ice and water. Where is the pollution coming from there? Pollution/dillution seems to play into this equation.Also, the valcano in hawaii spews out more co2 in one day than the largest polluter in the world does in one year. And its been doing it for 3 years. When mother nature decides to do it, she does and will do it good. Man cannot control the earths weather!

[Steve Foss]

Well, there's a difference between controlling the weather and affecting it. I can't control my wife, but I can affect what she does. The world population of humans can't control the weather, but I think we do affect it.

[jonny_redhorse]

I guess I gotta add just a thing or two......lol!...guess it's proven we're altering the face of the planet and there's not much doubt about it...take the rain forests for instance...they've been "whackin " em down for the last 75 years to make room for growing crops......you just don't "re-seed" a rainforest....once a "triple -canopy" forest is gone......it's gone...takes ma nature centuries to get to the right conditions to grow one.......plus......the rain forests ,in it's vastness, provides oxygen into the atmosphere and the trees themselves, act as an "air filter"....so.....if the trees are gone.........whats next?......one starts getting rid of the very life giving items we need for makin our air....we gotta problem! .....plus!......the ebbing and flowing of the so called ice ages mixed in there somewhere with the addition of man made(produced )problems...........yes....man affects our planet....if mankind has done the damage to the face of the earth in the last 100 years.........what will we do in the next thousand years!or 10,000!.........how long can we suck the oil out of a hole in the ground before that oil is gone!...how many fishing trawlers with nets 5 miles long before we're catching ....."zip"!......we got a problem on this ball in space.........now that I have that off my chest .think i'll go grab a piece of pumpkin pie.... ....jonny

[cloyd]

whats causing global warming?

many things...from depletion of forests..addition of greenhouse gases by world industries..to the desalanization of ocean currents..of course these are just symptoms

its a delicate biosystem an mankind carries the paradigms that upsets that balance

mankinds paradigms are the cause of this..an until we change them this will continue

[Casaloma]

I usually stay away from political threads, but I'm high on turkey & gravy so...

IMO, its just like smoking cig's. ( I just quit so this has been on my mind ). The gasses that cause more rapid warming are emissions that we have decided are OK to live with, once you start smoking it's easy & convenient to run with it & darn hard to quit. But, we really know deep down that we are hurting ourselves. When the price is high enough & our overall health is affected enough we have to work to affect a change in our lifestyle. Many groups have decided that they think we have gone too far compromising the planets health, others think that we cannot affect the world in this degree, or that technology will solve the problems for us when things get bad enough.

For me, even if medical technology can make me a perfectly adequate set of lungs that I irresponsibly smoked away I'd rather try to get my original ones healthy.

Have I mentioned I love to fish.

[Steve Foss]

Cas, good luck on your effort to eliminate your own personal greenhouse gasses. One small step at a time.

[Jiffy]

This topic has become so politically charged that arguments on both sides are made more with emotion rather than good science.

[Steve Foss]

Well, of course. Emotion is what turns a discussion into an argument and an argument into a violent crime statistic.

[gunflint]

I think that it's a pretty good leap from discussing global warming to becoming a violent crime statistic. The fact that alot of us can discuss our views and express our opinions is a good thing. I learn alot about several issues, particularly when it becomes a heated discussion. When you're taking a stand on a controversial issue you are forced to think about that issue, and when reading or responding to opposing opinions you have to question your stance. I think that's a possitive not a negative.

On a different subject. The rain forest was mentioned a couple of posts back. It's issues like the rain forrest that make it hard for someone like me to take issues like global warming seriously. Several years ago when the rain forest was a big issue all the enviromentalists where siteing statistics about how fast it (the rain forest) was dissapearing. Someone did the math and proved that if the rainforest was really dissapearing has fast as they said, the US would have to be carpet bombing it 24/7 and still coudn't keep up.

Another interesting irony about the rain forest that was in the news recently. The biggest threat to the rain forest right now is bio-diesel. It seems that the demand for bio-diesel in Europe in general and Germany in paricular is so high that the price of palm oil and soy oil has risin to the point that the farmers near the rain forest are cutting it down to make room for the more profitable crops used to produce them.

[upnorth]

I am going with the "it is a cycle that we can't control theory". The Earths temperature has never been static, so what makes us think we can make it stay the way it is?

As stated earlier we have been through several if not many Ice Ages and warming trends. Why would anyone think this is not a normal phase of the Earths climate? Well other than the fantasy that we can have everything we want if we only try hard enough

I did some digging awhile back on this and we have warmed 6 tenths of 1 degree in the last 150 years (or there about). And there has only been the technology to record global temps for that long. Who can say what the previous 150 or much less 10,000 years were like?