Why?

[jblabsnduck]

Why do so many people take small bucks?

I have read a lot of reports about people taking little spikes and nubbie bucks.

WHY???????????

I just don't understand why someone would rather take a little guy instead of taking a nice doe.

Are these people just out for meat? I was out just for meat this year so I stuck 2 nice does and passed on a couple smaller bucks.

And people wonder why they never kill a big buck, the answer is hanging in there tree. Yes, that little spike you just shot because you never see a big boy.

My guess is that most of these deer hunters want to say the shot a buck and they only get a couple weeks to shoot one so they figure they better kill that small guy if they have a chance.

Bow hunting you get 3 1/2 months to try to take one.

Deer management people, MN needs it bad.

[leechlake]

first of all I'm with you. 1/2 our guys will shoot a doe over a small buck, the other 1/2 are kind of old school and would rather shoot any buck than a doe. It's a mindset but a little information for them will convince some but to some people quality hunting means shooting any buck rather than does. I believe it's like catch and release used to be, over time people came to understand and therefore participate in the act.

[Mark Christianson]

I am on both sides.

Not everyone bowhunts JB. So thats not an option for most deer hunters.

Also, if you hunt zone 4 you get 2 days to shoot your deer if you choose to only hunt 4A. Some people are gonna take the first thing that comes by regardless of what it is to fill a tag, rather than passing on deer, and not end up filling their tag.

Just a couple quick thoughts, but as long as its legal to shoot small guys, they will get shot. Leech is right, over time some will change.

My guess is that a lot never will change.

[captkev]

Well to start with...

Most people don't own a nice piece of property to manage the herd properly, So when I'm hunting with a group of meat hunters, I meat hunt. If its brown its down! how do you go about manageing 1000's of acres of state land? If I pass on a nice spike just to do my part and manage the state herd, the deer goes down the trail to the next guy and BANG, there goes my fresh chops. over the last 2 weekends I've seen more spike and fork horns than I could count, but there seemed to be hardly any does, I saw three small bucks to every one doe and I'd say I saw at least 20 bucks in 4 days.

If I hunt on a friends property(500acres) he has a rule,

no fawns, and a buck must be a wall hanger or it walks. he trys to take at least 5 does off of that piece every year. and you see some realy nice bucks there too.

So I think its up to the DNR to manage the state herd. if there is a law set in place to keep my from makeing beer sticks out of a small buck, then fine, I hope they do start a law for antler size. but untill then, mmmm good eats!

The QDMA will not work without every one doing it. so untill there is a chang in the reg's. Everyone who wants QDM then go buy all the land you can and do your part on your own property, and I'll keep on eating on the other side of the fence, thats the law.

[bigbucks]

I let most of the little bucks go, but basically nobody around me does, so I still never see or shoot a big buck. I bowhunt for 3 1/2 months, with firearm & muzzleloader mixed in. The stupid short seasons in Zone 4 are a lot of the problem, along with the generally smaller areas of cover that allows parties to really comb an area. 80+% of the deer are going to get shot at or at least pushed by hunters.

[riverrat56]

I try not to shoot bambi bucks, but anything else is fair game, with only 2 days to hunt there isn't much of a choice, especially not with the warm weather and the deer not moving like they were this year. If I had more time to bow hunt I would be more selective but with duck hunting, pheasant hunting, goose hunting, and football there just isnt time before slug season, and after I would rather pheasant hunt. If I had 2 weeks to hunt then I would pass up on small bucks and try for a doe or nice buck but I dont.

[shae1986]

This kinda of question has turned up in a lot is the previous weeks and i have posted my thoughts on it. All i am going to say is i will let the smaller bucks go and if someone else decides that they want that deer, shoot away. I dont care anymore what people shoot as long as they feel it is a trophy.

Andrew

[bigeyeguy]

Well since we are out for sport I'd rather shoot a small buck than a doe. In our area it is a challenge to see any buck, while seeing a doe is a fairly common occurance. We hunt all public land and are in one of the only remaining areas where there is a lottery to get a doe permit, we need to apply otherwise we can only legally shoot a buck. And I don't understand why people think there are no big bucks out there, every year there are monsters taken from public land, many times we don't even know they are there. If we increase the avg. antler size then the definition of a trophy will go up, it's all relative. If your proud of your fork horn then that's good enough. By the way we do pass on bucks sometimes. We usually try to get one buck hanging and then for that guy to shoot another it has to be a wall hanger.

[BIG ISLAND DUDE]

You got it right bigeyeguy(AKA "UPS MAN"). BTW, I shot a decent sized fork horn over in blackduck saturday evening and my buddy shot a HUGE doe right before we had to leave sunday morning. Im up at the lake and I just finished butchering. (First time Ive butchered by myself). All in All a pretty good season so far. Hope you also had good luck.

[climbmda]

I think it depend on your situation, and the purpose of your hunt. I hunt primarily for meat, and that is my first priority; making sure i get venison in the freezer. I prefer to shoot does, and likr the occasional nice buck. I get two weekends to hunt. I pass on any buck under 8 points the first weekend, and usually get a doe or nice buck that weekend.

Some years, though, it doesn't work out. There are no guarantees. Second weekend, when time is limited and I don't have a deer, I wont pass up any good sized deer. I don't shoot fawns (call it principle).

If a nice sized 4 or 6 gives me a great shot, I will take it. I don't want to pass on it, and end up with no venison for the winter. Normally, it's not an issue, but making sure I get a deer is priority one. A trophy is a nice bonus, but not the main focus of my hunt.

For those on public land, they have to fight for a deer, any deer, and passing on a good shot at a 6 pointer is silly. Someone will shoot it anyway. Very unlikely that a buck on public land gets to that point anyway, with a rut firearm season.

My point, I guess, is hunt your own hunt. If you have land that allows you to manage a herd, then do so. I do so, but not to the point of not having steaks for the year. I much prefer to take does for the freezer, but some years, bucks just seem to be what is walking by all the time.

Don't be so quick to judge. Not everyone is in the same situation. I like to see everyone manage bucks, but my priority is not trophies. I like meat!

[R Buker]

This topic is a lot like catch and release fishing. Each person is on his or her own. I bowhunted for years and killed a lot of deer. Everything from button bucks to trophy bucks and all sizes and shapes of does in between died. I've done my share of killing and can afford beef which I prefer over venison.

So, now I have let more little bucks walk than I can count. If I let a small one go, maybe the next guy will do the same and maybe he'll grow up. Of course, if that guy is hungry for venison, then by all means, shoot him. Maybe the next one I let walk won't be seen by the same guy.

Bottom line is that every one I let walk by is one that has at least a slight chance of growing larger.

The idea that "I may as well shoot him because if I don't, someone else will" is the same place we were at when catch and release fishing first started up. It'll work if we develop the needed restraint on each individual's part. And, just like with catch and release fishing, if you want a meal of venison, go ahead and shoot the forkie and be happy about it!

Good hunting.

Randy

[hanson]

Hey, hey!!

I shoot small bucks!!

Why? I hunt public land. The first decent sized deer to walk by my stand gets shot. I'm sorry.

I let the little fawns walk if at all possible and then its fair game on does and bucks with visible antlers.

I had a chat with my dad about this on the phone before the opener. He said he was going to let any small buck walk and save his buck tag for a big one. I told him to remember the public land he was hunting and take the sure shot on a "good" deer.

He let a forkhorn walk 30 yards out from his stand and that was the only "shootable" deer he saw in 6 days of hunting.

Our party of 6 has 2 deer taken so far. Its going to be slim pickins' for deer meat this year.

We're hunting Saturday and breaking camp down on Sunday so no hunting.

I think if we want to see more bucks, we're going to need an earn-a-buck program or we're going to have to draw for buck tags like ND instead of drawing for doe tags.

Until then, I'm shooting at that next forkhorn that walks by with no regrets.

Deer hunting is turning into the have's & have not's. Those who own land who can manage it and those who hunt the public land neighboring it. No one is happy.

(For the record, of the deer I have seen this rifle season, I shot 1 fawn and couldn't get a comfortable shot on a very small buck that was chasing a doe. The darn critter just wouldn't present a shot. Those are the ONLY 2 deer that I considered good opportunities. I've got 1 day left to hunt but confidence is not high with the activity I have seen so far.)

[jblabsnduck]

First of all I am NOT judging ANYONE. I asked a question and I just wanted to see some of your answers.

Meat was on my mind this year and that is why I stuck two does.

Yes, I hunt on private land(lucky for me), reason for passing on small bucks.

I posted this because I had just got done reading a post from a guy who was crying that he never see's a big buck but later in his post says that he has a spike hanging in his tree. Wonder why he never see's a big buck?

I understand that hunting public is tuff.

I took a LOT of driving around and door knocking to get on where I am at now. I have been on this land for 6 years and all the guy wants is jerky whenever I get a deer.

I also understand that not everyone has the time to bow hunt, that wasn't my point.

I just wanted to know why people shoot them little guys and I got some answers. Do I think bad of those people? NO because they gave a good answer for why they do it.

Just because I wont do dosen't mean the person that does is any less of a person.

Question part 2:

How mad do you think people would be if it was a Earn a Buck? You had to shoot a doe before you take a buck.

That is one way to manage deer even on public.

[fivebucks]

We hunt in the north woods by LOW and there are not as many deer up there so you need to take the shots you have. I saw 3 deer the first 4 days of hunting and 0 deer the next 3 days. Due to operator error my tags are still unfilled. I have lost 1 deer in 25 years of hunting and this year I made 2 bad shots and lose both of them. It tore me up to lose a nice buck and a doe. I'm heading up for the last few days of the season and if it's brown it's down. I usually will try to take a doe, except opening morning. In our area saving the smalls bucks would do no good, there is just too much area and not enough deer. Besides if people stopped shooting the small ones what would the wolves eat.

I hope MN doesn't go to the earn a buck program, at least statewide.

Good hunting to those still at it.

[BLACKJACK]

I don't like the earn a buck idea, hunting in zone 4 you have two days to get a deer and sometimes you only have one opportunity - and that might be a small buck thats going to be mighty tasty in the freezer. I like to have some venison in the feezer. Also, the area in central MN near Willmar that I hunt doesn't have too many deer, earn a buck would put to much pressure on the does, meaning less deer next year. Lastly, would people pass up that buck of a lifetime if they haven't shot that doe yet? Maybe, maybe not. "sombody will have a doe tag" You're just making outlaws out of otherwise legal hunters.

[hobbydog]

Everyone looks at this from such a narrow perspective....that being their 80 acres they hunt. There are so many different types of hunting in MN with herds varying from 2 per sq. mile to 50 or more, Heavy forest to prairie, multi-generation hunting parties to guys just starting out. There is public and private land hunters, archers, smoke pole, shotgun and rifle hunters. Some guys spend 30+ days in the deer stand each year and others only get a couple. Some are stage 1 hunters and others are at stage 5 and there are a lot in-between. We all hunt for different reasons. Yet everyone wants the DNR to set the seasons and regs to fit their narrow view of hunt.....the DNR has an impossible job.

I personally think the DNR does a pretty good job by breaking the state down into geographical zones. They are moving slowly to try new approaches (youth deer, no antlerless drawings, etc.) I think if they try to force QDM down hunters throats it will backfire. When someone who has never shot a deer or very few gets a ticket for shooting a "non legal" deer it will have a bad affect. For me it would not be the $$ amount of the fine but the implication that I did something wrong by shooting a deer when overpopulation is a problem in many areas.

For those that have moved through the different stages try to remember what it was like shooting any deer, even a spike. Like catch and release, education is the way to go.

[Kodiak]

believe it or not but all we got were small bucks and one NICE 10 pointer, there were no shots on does...on private land.

[grip-em+rip-em]

Great post hobbydog. I have a good idea of what I think would be the "perfect" thing for the DNR to do, but so does everyone else in this forum. I try an encourage everyone I can to let the small buck go, but I get all kinds of time to hunt, and have private land to hunt on. I also remember the first doe I shot, and the first buck and they are both still trophies to me. I really believe that we need to get more kids out hunting, and teach them to hunt with ethics. This will be the long term success for excellent whitetail hunting in Minnesota.

[Bubbadust]

I'm of the "if it's brown, it's down" mentality. I am a meathunter and could really care less about hanging some antlers on the wall. My brother, father, and I hunt our family's 25 acres near Rochester each year and I can't afford to be choosy. In 15 years of hunting there, I have seen roughly 100 deer and exactly 1 of them had antlers. I did shoot it, but it was only a forkhorn. There are years where I spend 6 days on stand with no shots offered and maybe only see 1-2 deer.

I know we could hunt somewhere else, but there is something about hunting the same land my great grandfather owned and hunted on 70 years ago. Plus, I don't want to pass up a chance at some tasty roast...

[bigbucks]

Bubbadust,

That's a great answer, I understand perfectly. I hunt a lot of places & my standards of what I shoot vary quite a bit depending on where I'm hunting & what time of year it is. My Dad's place where I grew up is pretty marginal deer country & is pretty poor really once the crops are gone. There's prime habitat all around, but not really on his property, too many fields, almost no cover. I'm must less fussy there, partly also because there's only a few of us that ever hunt there. To get any deer there is a bigger accomplishment then it would be in some of the better places I hunt. It's just really fun to take deer where I grew up & where there were almost never any deer when I was growing up.

[jblabsnduck]

Someone told me once that MN is one of the only states that has gun season during the peak of the rut time.

Not sure if that is true.(don't know other states openers)

If I remember right I also heard that on a hunting show.

I would guess that a lot less smaller bucks would be shot if the gun season wasn't during the rut or less bucks no matter what size. just my opinion.

[lawdog]

I have a few thoughts to add or expand on some previous posts. This is a good discussion and to me emphasizes why we don't have big bucks like ND. First of all, a couple people have mentioned the season length in zone 4 and I've said for years that if we went to an antler restriction we'd have to get rid of the two day season as its just too short, at least the first 3 years or so.

The other thing that to me suggests why the state needs to do this, as opposed to just doing it voluntarily, is this feeling (and I agree its a totally legit concern), that on public land or small pieces of ground it does no good because the next guy will just shoot it. That's exactly why it needs to be required in order to work. I can't control the next guy, but the State sure can.

And my last comment on this is frankly that I think all this "nobody's going to tell me what to shoot" and/or "we don't need anymore regulations" garbage that always comes out is not the least bit productive or at all valid as an argument. The entire season structure is based upon a regulation so you are already being told how to hunt, and you actually already have an antler restriction if you think about it...3" polished horn is an antler limit, because after all isn't a button buck still a buck deer and yet you can't shoot it. Think about that, and come up with an actual argument, not just "nobody is gonna tell me what to do".

[Mark Christianson]

You cant tell me what to do.

[chucker34]

Lawdog, you hit the nail on the head. People may have different views on antler restrictions, but it seems to be the only way it would ever work on a large scale. I personally wouldn't mind the state telling me what to do when it comes to this as long as the restrictions were reasonable. A 2 1/2 year old buck can grow a pretty nice rack if he gets to live past those first two seasons.

[almostthere!]

Here is the reason why we do the things we do.

Taste!!! A fawn or yearling buck simply tastes better than a mature doe. Some of us prefer quality over quantity and definitely could careless for the antlers attached to the buck.

Asking "Why someone would shoot a yearling buck" is simply asking "why you shoot big antlered bucks?" If your answer is "because the large antlers are a trophy and make you appear to be a better hunter", then the person who hunts for quality meat will simply tell you "because the yearly buck is soooo finger-licking good".

[DRH1175]

I too agree on passing on small bucks. I bowhunted this year and had a good shot on a 6 pointer twice. I passed both times. However where we hunt the neighbors all shoot anything that comes by. So what I am getting at is until there is a minimum pt restrictions or earn a buck there is almost no point in passing on the smaller bucks. I am sure that 6 pointer that was passed on twice by me probably was shot by the neighbors. Deer management has to start at the DNR level untill they care we will not have a quality # of bucks.

[rabbit lake dude]

I am not in it for the rack or the big antlers. So to me a deer is a deer. I have plenty of time to hunt. I will shoot anything that comes close. That is way my freezer is full of deer all year long. Almostthere has a point. Why do you want big antlers? I never here anyone complain about all the small does being harvested. Just the small bucks. To some of us, who cares about the antlers big or small, it's going down.

[BLACKJACK]

In the last issue of the MN Deer hunters magazine there was an interesting article concerning antler point restrictions. States out west that have had antler point restricitions for years are starting to abolish them because they've run into problems with a) animals getting shot and left to lay because they didn't meet the minimum every buck above the minimum getting shot, creating an unbalanced herd with no older bucks.

If the states out west have found antler point restrictions to be a failure, why should we repeat that failure??

[Ron Burgundy]

I would like to think I could pass on the little guys. Then again the only buck I've ever shot is a little 5 pter. I buy two tags right away so I can take a doe for the meat and then wait for a respectable buck. Zone 349b is pretty cool.

[Gissert]

I'm not sure antler restrictions alone will do it. Look at the deer in this photo. Three of these bucks are eight point or better, yet I would be surprised if any of them are over 2.5 years old. The future does look good in my neck of the woods,