the superbraid thread.

[Derrik]

Hi everybody.

Wanna start things off by saying this forum rocks.

Now, on to the subject. To all of you using any of the superbraids, which brand do you use and which knots do you prefer?

I've been reading up alot on the knots recommended for SB's and can't seem to find any that I like.

I've been doing alot of testing on many different knots using a spare spool of SW stealth 80lb. that I have laying around. I've tried palomars, double palomars, surgeons loops, bemini twist and a few other knots and none of them are as strong as some people claim. I've heard many people say that a bimini twist is suppose to have close to 100% knot strength. Not so... However, of all of the knots that I've tested it was the strongest, breaking anywhere from 56lbs up to 63lbs. A palomar that everybody talks so highly of didn't do to well in my tests, usually breaking in the high 40's to low 50's with 53 being the highest.

I read somewhere that sleeving it with a different line is suppose to increase knot strength. I found that a uni knot sleeved, held up to about 59lbs, which only held up to the low 50's without the sleeving, so it did improve it some. Well short of the 90% that they claimed. On a side not, I did not use Dacron though, as none of the baitshops around here had Dacron big enough. I used some 135lb. planar board line from mills fleet. Will actual Dacron improve things? In theory it's used to keep it from cutting into itself, and the planar line should do the same thing.

Of course some people are wondering who cares right? Since none of my reels are gonna come anywhere close to even 40lbs. of drag right? Well they're right. I'm just very picky when it comes to this kind of stuff.

I also tested a couple other lines, 1 being original spiderwire in the 50lb. variety. On a bimini twist, which again held the most held up to about 36 pounds. Most other knots were low 30's.

I also tried PowerPro 20lb. On this stuff I found 1 or 2 knots that held over 20lbs. I never did try the bimini on it though, but I'm sure it would have held. A palomar held about 24 pounds before the line snapped, it didn't snap at the knot though, it was about a foot from it. Most knots were in the 16-22 pound range. The palomar was the only one that didn't break at the knot.

So maybe Spiderwire just has bad knot strength???

Has anybody else done any kinds of tests like these?

I'm kinda curious. If it turns out to be that SW has bad knot strength, I may switch to something else. I may pick up a spool of 80lb. tufline xp and try that.

[CrappieJohn]

And I'll start off with welcome to FishingMinnesota.com! And you are very right about the site rocking!

While I won't be able to add much in your quest for superbraid answers, I can assure you that there are a multitude of people on board here that can.

Again, welcome on deck! Enjoy!

[Hooked On a Feeling]

I use fireline with a "trilene knot", never had a problem. I know about the other knots, but I can straighten out a jig hook on a snag without it breakin'. Hope this helps.

[HEUY]

I picked up a little red book of knots and learned a lot about super braid knots that I never knew before. I've always doubled my line when using a SB line and never had problems, but I try to use Western Filament line. An article I read tested quite a few brands and that one came out on top. Sorry if this sounded like a commercial, but you should be getting close to 90% on your knots if you are doing things right.

[LT01]

Derrick,

welcome aboard. My first question would be, what type of fishing are you doing and what type of reels will you be using.

[Derrik]

LT01. A variety actually. The only kind of fishing I use braided for is Musky and Catfish. Reels are either spinning or baitcasters.

Like I said though, I know either way it will be overkill for my equipment. I'm just trying to learn how to get relatively close to breaking strength with the new braids.

This really isn't about fishing. So equipment isn't really a concern. I just wanna know if some people have had better luck with breaking strength and such between different braids.

If you wanna know though, the rod that I"m using the 80lb. stealth on is a 7'0" compre musky rod with a Cardiff 400 baitcaster.

HUEY. You have no idea how many times I've read that myself. Which was why I decided to do this little test. If I actually am doing something wrong, I'm doing it wrong for every test I've done, because they're all turning out roughly the same.

[Northlander]

I run Power Pro and have no problem with knots no matter what I tie. I usually break off above the knot. Usually tie the polymar and it works well for me. As with any line check for nicks in it.

I used to use Fireline but after I tried Power Pro it went on almost all my rods.

[blakjack23]

I second Northlander. After using Power Pro I will not use anything else. I also use the palomar knot.

[dfv87]

power pro and Polamar knots, that is it.

[CHM]

Ditto! PP and Polamar knot. I wet the line before cinching it tight. I use 15 on a spinning rig for misc weed & slop work, and jig & pigs, and 50 on my baitcaster for rattle traps and slop frogs. I have never had either one break. I do use a uni-knot occasionally on a lure that is too big to mess with on a polamar knot.

Chuck

[walleyejon]

Another vote for Power Pro. Fireline seems to nick/break so easy in the rocks. I haven't had those issues near as often since switching to PP. One thing to remember, as my right index finger will attest to, let the line go when you're using a spinning reel PRIOR to setting the hook. Ouch that hurts right away when you forget.

I haven't had trouble tying any knots in PP or Fireline, although it does help to wet the line before you tighten it up.

[Fisher Dave]

Derrik.. I have done test like these.. the hardest way possible.. by fishing. Many super lines are not very Knot friendly, or only friendly to certain types of knots. For example, Fire Line I only have luck with the polamer knot.. other knots on the lighter line class of Fire Line will snap before you get it cinched.

I have had the best luck with Power Pro out of all that I have tried. I have 80# power pro on my cat/musky rods, and 10 lb on a couple other all around, and walleye rods.

I use the polamer knot, but it is good with other knots as long as the knot is tied properly. The PP knots will slip out if a knot isnt tied correctly... for example, the knot that you * put it through the eye, wrap around the line 7 times, put line through loop by eye, then back through the other loop*... if you get lazy and dont come back up through the 2nd loop.. the knot will slip out every time.

[Derrik]

I just did some more tests. And the results were kinda surprising.

20lb. powerpro broke at about 23 pounds with a uni, it broke at the knot. This is the interesting part. I used a regular old granny knot superglued because they kept pulling apart, and it broke at 28lbs, at the knot. WTH???? Doesn't make any sense to me.

I just tried some stealth 8lb. With a uni knot it broke at about 11 lbs. at the knot. I tested the stealth 3 times and they were all in the 11 pound range. So I guess the smaller stealth holds up fine with knots. Just not the bigger stuff.

Tonight I'm gonna run and pick up a spool of 50lb. power pro and see how that does.

Maybe the lighter braids hold fine, and the thicker stuff has problems holding rated strength???

I'll keep ya informed

[buzzsaw]

You may even want to try the new Stren super braid.....

[Shorelunch]

I really like the 30/8 PowerPro for trolling bottom bouncers and cranks. I've never had a problem with breaks from fish - and it will bend a hook before breaking the line if you're snagged. I like 8/2 Fireline for jigging.

I'm using Tuff Line XP for muskies and I've liked that so far. I haven't tried any others yet. I have heard good like about Spederwire Stealth on baitcasters.

[Dan Thiem]

Derrik, Thank you for all the reports on your research. I think a lot of people can benifit from your labors.

[LT01]

Derrick,

I also am a firm believer in the power pro line. Used it from fishing walleye to cats, always with a palomar knot. Never had a problem with it breaking at the knot. Remember the breaking point of the line is only one component of the equation. (sp) You definitely want your drag set properly which will also act as your shock absorber. Outside of cats, you cinch that drag down to tight with the superbraids, you stand a very good chance of ripping a hole in the fish. Let the backbone of your rod and the drag of the reel work for you, not against you.

[Derrik]

Thanks for all the info guys. Tonight when I get off of work I'm gonna head to wally world and pick up a thing of powerpro 50lb. If I can get the powerpro to hold up to the rated strength using normal knots like the 20lb did. Powerpro has just found a new customer. Especially since PP is thinner than stealth. They both say the same diameter on the box but take them out and compare them once, the PP is noticeably thinner.

I'm gonna try some 6lb stealth too since I happen to have some of that laying around, tomorrow a guy at work is gonna bring me some 20lb fireline to test.

I hope this PP thing works out, if not, I'm gonna try some of the braids from Western filament.

I'm trying to develop a way to test shock strength. I won't be able to give any actual readings but I may try and tie some weights to some of them and drop them, and see which one takes the most abuse.

[Fisher Dave]

A shock test will be taken by mono.. it has stretch.. bungee cord effect... Overall Stren would win that test... I have seen stren stretch more than 10 feet in a 40' cast.

A worthwhile test would be an *abbraision under load* test. This is something that is possibly more important than anything to guys fishing for big cats, or any heavy fish where cover is an issue.

It would be pretty simple.. tie the line off to something heavy and drag it over a cinder block, tree branch, rock.. etc. Some of the test may not come out right due to the line digging in(tree).. but you may find some interesting results.

I know for a fact Fireline does not hold up well to debris in the river.. for example.. big fish on, line hits concrete, line breaks. Power pro seems to hold up very well... especially in the 80 lb test... It is too often that Fireline breaks on me with little to no pressure when snagged... its obvious it is on an abbrasive surface, or sharp rock. I will not use fireline anymore.

80# might sound like overkill to some people, but its not when your fishing in a concrete and rebar jungle and there is a 40# fish on the other end... It is comparable to a 4 lb fish on 8 lb test... a 4# fish has no problem breaking 8# line if your drag is too tight.

Another odd test.. but worthy.. tie a knot in different brand lines in the middle of the line.. attatch one end of the line to an anchor point, and pull on the other.. see which line holds up. I have had some great results with power pro when I had a knot in the line(4 year old son was using rod) and the line held up to many very decent size fish when daddy was too busy to change it... then I avoided re-rigging because I seen it was holding up.

[DTro]

I have some 50lb Berkely Gorilla superbraid that I'd be interested is seeing how it performs. Anyone ever use that stuff?

[Derrik]

Dave,

That abrasion under load test is a good idea. I'm thinking about setting brick or something of that nature on something high and then hanging the line over it, I'll tie a 5 pound weight to one end and the pull up and down on the other end and see how many times it takes to break.

I just got done doing some testing on PP. 30lb PP's average break was in the mid 20's. In fact from earlier testing of the 20lb PP, the 30 lb didn't make much of a difference, maybe 1-2 pounds on average.

I tested 50lb PP 3 times with a uni, 3 with a palomar and once with a bimini twist. The average break strength with the uni was about 35lb. The average for the palomar was about 33lb. I only did the bimini once and it broke at 33 pounds.

So it looks like the PP 50lb. was pretty darn close in B.S. to the SW 50lb. One thing I forgot to mention was the 50lb. spiderwire that I tested was about 4 years old, and has been used and abused it's whole life. But after testing the 80lb. SW stealth, the 50lb's breaking percentage was almost dead on with the 80. So the age of it appears to have no affect on strength what so ever.

I may take the 50lb SW off of my baitcaster and replace it with PP just for the fact that the PP is thinner.

[Derrik]

I did a test with both the SW and PP in 50lb. I tested each one with a knot in the middle. Wasn't much of a difference between the two. The PP made it to 15 while the SW broke at about 16.

I then tied the two together using a uni-uni knot and pulled. The spiderwire gave up first at about 22 pounds.

I only tested each one once.

So in my opinion, the strength between PP and SW in the 50lb flavors is a dead heat.

You really couldn't go wrong with either one.

I may opt to stick with the PP just for the fact that it is just a hair thinner.

[Fisher Dave]

Your not using the same section of line for each test after it fails are you? You using a new section of line each time?

An the other question.. are you getting the line wet to tie the knots? In fishing situations.. your line is at least going to be somewhat wet.. many people go as far as to wet the line when tying(I dont).

The only other question I have is.. how are you connecting the line to the scale?

[FishinBill]

Also a little skewed since your rod bends and takes a lot of the pressure away

[Derrik]

Quote:

---

Your not using the same section of line for each test after it fails are you? You using a new section of line each time?

An the other question.. are you getting the line wet to tie the knots? In fishing situations.. your line is at least going to be somewhat wet.. many people go as far as to wet the line when tying(I dont).

The only other question I have is.. how are you connecting the line to the scale?

---

Using a new piece everytime.

Actually I am lubing the knots up with some reel oil prior to cinching them down.

I am connecting the line to a 175# leader and then connecting that to the scale. I tried connecting the line directly to the scale and it didn't seem to have much of an effect on breaking strength.

I just tried the 50 PP again and used a bimini. I made sure it was lubed up really well and everything looked even and it broke at 45 pounds. That's the best yet.

Tonight sometime I'm gonna do a few more tests with the bimini. If I can get it constantly hold over 40, I'm gonna start using that.

[Captain B.R.K]

Speaking of superbraid's....I'm a big fan of the power-pro, but my question is this:

How often should I be replacing power pro on my spools?

Thanks!

[Northlander]

When it gets ruff looking. Dont worry about color, the less color the more castable it is. When Im jigging I go threw so many jigs between losing them and switching them I never worry about changing it til it gets too low on the spool. I have trolling reels with power pro from 3 years ago on them.

One trick is to take and spool the PP off 1 spool onto another and then you have the fresh PP to use.

It doesnt break down like mono so you can use it a long long time. For me I think it actually saves me $ even though its more expensive in the short term I think its cost efficient in the long term.

By the way Derrick you have too much time on your hands. Buy some Power Pro and go fishing man.

[TonkaBass]

Although I have not had to many problems in the past with breaking power pro due to age, I would still replace it about twice a year. Normally it's not an issue anyways because of the number of times a guy cuts and reties, pretty soon he runs out of line and doesn't have a choice.

[Captain B.R.K]

TonkaBass- YIKES, that gets expensive for line! $14.99 x # of reels + sales tax = $$$ just for reels.

I like Northlanders answer better

I can see changing line once or twice a year might be the norm for a guy that puts a lot of time on the water, but for a guy like me that gets out 1-3 times a week during the summer, I think buying it once is fine.

[Northlander]

The only rod I have to worry about changing out is my jigging rods because they get used a ton and I wind up cutting so much off 6" at a time. If your changing PP out twice a year your missing the best time with it. Heck it takes a few weeks just to get it loosened up a bit. Unless your always cutting it off like I do on my jigging rods. Try the spool onto another spool trick it will save ya $ BRK.