? abuot pointing dogs

[J Rookie K]

I have a ton of questions abuot pointing dogs. I would like info on traits/qualities of different breeds. When I make up mind on a breed, then comes the tough part, searching fo a breeder. My Chessie is 2 now, and he loves to rooster hunt. He can run from 9am till dark and I never have to blaze the trail. So far Im plaesed with him, but I love to watch pointers work. Really Im a waterfowl hunter, but the last 2 seasons Ive started to upland hunt a bit more, and man its GREAT. So this season I plan to spend not so much time in the duck boat. So anything on clubs, websites, books or personal preferences will be great. Thanks for the help. J Rookie K

[greenman]

Why don't you think about a versitile hunting dog. German Shorthair, Visla,
Wime, my personal fav the German Wirehaired Pointer. My GWP has a great nose always looks to please is great with my kids is easy to train. The dogs are not kennel dogs they crave human attention. They also need lots of exercise. Playing fetch being at the top of the list. The coat works well in cold water (sheds very little) and the dogs feet are webbed. GWP are considered versitile hunting dogs because they are suitable for upland as well as duck hunting. My breeder is a second generation breeder of GWPs. His family used to breed them in Germany.

[mwal]

I maybe in the market for a GWP or Drathaar. Who is the breeder you used? Also how did you train your gwp? or is the nautural ability strong enough that you do obedience and hunt. MY current dog is a Brittany with strong instincts. We worked on obedience and exposed her to gunfire and birds and basicly hunted. She is on her 11th season so I need to think about a replacement. I duck hunt in the morning upland in the afternoon so thats why I'm interested in the gwp

Mwal

[gspman]

J Rookie K,
So you're thinking of coming to the darkside eh? 8^) You'll love pointers for the uplands. It's a totally different ballgame. Here's my generalized opinions on the major pointing breeds. Please keep in mind these are my generalizations and you're mileage will vary with any particular dog in any breed, especially along different bloodlines. Also these are my opinions and others may have completely different viewpoints and experiences with the same breeds.

English Pointer - The Ferrari of pointing dogs. Speed, stamina, range, style, intensity, nose to the max. Small to medium in size. Okay family dog but just not as tuned in to the family when in the house. Somewhat less affectionate and more independent than other breeds and are a little wound up. Not as good in cold weather or snow. All business when hunting. These would be my next choice after gsp's. If you do your homework you can find closer ranging pointers that are a little less wound up.

English Setter - The gentleman's bird dog. Come in various ranges and speeds. Medium to large in size. Good style and intensity. Not as wound up as a pointer. Good family dog. Generally setters are very affectionate, have a good nose and just plain look cool when on point. It's a religious experience when either a setter or pointer lock up. Setterguy should be able to give lots better info on setters.

If your picky, the long tailed dogs can look bad on point if they have a "sickle tail" which curls over their back. I much prefer a pool cue straight tail between 12:00 and 2:00.

GSP - Range from close range to English Pointer range. Slow speed to incredible speed. Tremendous stamina, great nose, soft mouth, good natural retriever and most have no problems with water. Good intensity and style for a bob-tailed dog. Great cover busters. Should have a good temperament and be fairly tuned in to their master both in the field and at home. Some bloodlines are more independant than others. Great family dog and wonderful with kids. I'd look for a GSP out of horseback field trial bloodlines for the best shorthairs.

GWP - The wooly bear. Similar to GSP. Less range and speed generally. Not quite the stamina as the shorthair, especially in the heat. Can have a sharper temperament. Good watch dog. Love water, good pointer, great retriever, good in cold weather, very determined hunter. Great cover busters.

Brittany - Small sized dogs of moderate range and speed. Just little lovers in the house. Happy disposition and less business like in the field but you can tell they just love hunting. Softer temperament than GSP or GWP. Good retrievers and just plain fun little dogs.

Vizsla - Cool looking dogs. Medium size. Close ranging and moderate speed. Softer temperament. You need to do a lot of research on these to make sure you get a good one. I think setterguy has one of these so he may be able to provide some info.

Weimeraner - Big size. Very close range, slow speed. Not the best style and intensity on point. Can be sharp tempered and overly protective. I haven't been impressed by this breed. I would look into horseback trial lines for sure with this dog and do a ton of research.

Springer spaniel - I know they don't point but I can't help it. These are the best **** flushers there are, bar none. They look good hunting, have tremendous energy, and bust cover like no one's business. If I didn't like pointers so much this is what I would own for sure. Just plain fun dogs and I love watching them hunt. Merry disposition and good family dogs.

Summary
If you own a chessie you need to know that most pointing breeds don't need quite as stern of a hand as a chessie when training. You might also be more comfy with a closer ranging and slower pointing dog. If that's the case I would recommend the GSP, GWP, and Brittany. The GSP, and GWP would have a harder temperament which might be more up your alley. Do alot of research and ask alot of questions. I'd personally go to some horseback trials for both GSP and GWP (I'm biased towards trial dogs) and get to know folks and ask questions. Good luck.

gspman

[setterguy]

gspman has a lot of good info here for you. I would say that his discriptions of the breeds is just about right on. Whenever I get the question "What kind of dog should I get?" I always follow it up with this one "What and where do you hunt?" This makes all the difference in the world. I guess that I would need a little more info on what type of hunting you do. The trial club that I am a member of has a fall trial coming up in October. There will be GSPs, English pointers, English setters, GWPs, Red setters and occasionally a Brit. This would be a great place to come and watch a great group of dogs and learn from a great group of guys. If you are interested shoot me an email and I will notify you when the dates get a little closer. I commend you on doing your homework on this. Pointing dogs aren't for everyone, they take a lot of trust in the dog to make the experience fun for both pooch and hunter. Any help I can be don't hesitate to ask.

[email protected]

[Blaze]

Mwal,

If you're looking at DDs, check out the VDD page for litter announcements (http://www.vdd-gna.org/Litters.htm). There's a litter "D" vom Rainmaker that was whelped on 7/13 here in the Cities. I've seen Ned's dogs and they are some nice lookin' pups.

Don't go and look at the pups unless you're ready to take one home though - the power of puppy eyes is amazing!!

[STILLNOFISH]

GSPMAN,

I think your overview of the different choices was very close to my experiences. However I am an owner of a 2 yr old Weimeraner and thank my lucky stars that I made that choice. She has been an excellent family dog expecially with the kids and at the same time, one of the better hunters I have seen. Certainly not the best but good enough for me. I' m sure I may be a little bias towards the weimes, but I honestly feel they are an underated hunting dog. I did enjoy reading the posts and look forward to the other comments people have about there own dogs. I forgot to mention that the best hunting dog I have seen was a GSP.

[greenman]

MWAl,

My breeder is Tom Grafenauer he lives in Mucwanago, WI. His web page is http://www.vomgrafenauer.itgo.com/
FYI a GWP and a Drahar are the same breed of dog. Drahar means "wire hair in German". Dogs with a Drahar usually means it has the sharpness of attitude that the Germans breed into the dog. My breeder has worked to reduce the sharpness in his line. Sharpness=
slight aggression. My dog is a big baby. She loves kids and always follows mine out the door to play. She is also an excellent watch dog with a big deep bark which sounds scary but see would pee herself if you jumped at her. I did have to work her to be steady to wing and shot but it was fun and rewarding experience. I used my local NAVHDA
chapter to help me. She has a excellent nose and is a joy to hunt over. She always aims to please. GWPs are sensitive to correction. Never hit one. A stern look and voice of displeasure is enough. I would agree with the other post that they don't have the endurance as a German Shorthair but their disposition is more loveable.

[greenman]

MWAl,

We chose the GWP because we wanted a good large family dog. Hunting was secondary.

My hunting buddy has a Springer. They are a ball of energy and will bust cover like crazy. You have to train them to "hup" (sit or stand still on command) and train them to
hunt within range of the gun or they will run far ahead of you busting birds out of range. Pheasants can and will challange the steadiness of pointing dogs because the roosters would rather run through the brush than hunker down. Pointing dogs with lots of experience will learn to "handle" this problem by circling out and cause the bird to burrow or flush, but by this time the dog is working in close co-operation with the gunner. You'll see the dogs eyes come up to check in with the gunner. What ever dog you get it will have to be trained for house and field manners. The dog only comes with the
nose and drive other aspects need to be honed for the individual hunter.

[Blaze]

One point of clarification: the Germans bred dogs for sharpness toward vermin - rats, coons, badgers, etc. - not toward people. Are there GWPs/DDs that are sharp toward people and other dogs? Absolutely. However, I have seen the exact same behavior from many breeds including GSPs, springers, labs, dalmations...

One word: SOCIALIZATION. Do it right and you won't have problems.

I personally believe the "sharp" reputation for GWPs/DDs has been blown way out of proportion.

[wallygators]

hey guys
I don't know why any how you have mentioned labs. There is a guy in my area the breeds pointing labs. mY buddy got one last year and the dog does both poiting and flushing. As the dog matures it will do more and more pointing.. I have also heard there shorthairs and wirehairs are pretty stubborn dogs but if trained right they are wonderful dogs. I have talked to 4 or 5 guys that said that if you give them an inch they will take a mile just like women.
but if you want a great all around dog labs are your best bet.

[Dano2]

Oh, Oh, here we go again, heh, heh,

Hope it dont get as nasty

[greenman]

I've had a lab and now the GWP and I think the GWP is an easier to train dog. I would
agree that they are slightly stubborn and will test you. You must be able to enforce EVERY command. Yes socialization is very important. I would also agree that the sharpness of a GWP is for use with furry critters that a DD dog must be able to dispatch to pass that portion of the DD test.
Labs are great dogs but shed way to much for me. I've got two kids to chase around and don't want to be sweeping dog hair every day.

[J Rookie K]

Thanks for the info guys. Chessies arent that hard to train, you just have to convince them. I have never hit my dog, and he great with the kids. My lil girl is 9 months old, and she loves to climb all over him. When he is sick of it, then he just gets out of her way. Im not interested in any Lab. Way too many backyard breeders. If I wanted to see a flusher try to point, Id train my Chessie to do that. He is probly smart enough to pick up the idea. I dont mean ruffle any feathers, just how I feel. Does anyone know of any GWP or GSP breeders that have any obedience titles in their background? That is 1 thing Ive found to be over looked when picking a pup. Right now Im thinking GWP. Keep the info comming, and please not too much breed bashing. Thanks J Rookie K

[Dano2]

HEH, breed bashing.
I found another great hunting forum the other night, saved it to my favorites and started reading it.
Came across the "Best bird dog" subject and by the time I got half through, I deleted it out of my favorites to make sure I dont go back again.
Some people are so narrow minded its unbelievable. they think that the dog they have is the best and none other can compare NO MATTER WHHAT, becasue thats the breed THEY have.

O.K. I could get alot nastier whn venting, but sense this is a public forum, I'll be human, but it just gets a little old.

[greenman]

I don't think you'll find many breeders of pointing dogs aiming their sales or breeding towards obedience trials. Any pointing or hunting dog should have basic obedience training as well as being well socialized.
I'm sure you've hunted with someone who's dog has had neither training and it can make for a chaotic day at best. A well trained pointer should know the commands heel, come, whoa (most important),stay and fetch. Lots of people won't teach a pointer to sit until it is two years old and bird training is instilled otherwise they may sit on point. I can attest to this as I taught my dog to "lay down" at 6 months and when I started formal bird training and applied any pressure on the dog she would lay down. Took a few months to work out the problem but she has stopped laying down on point. Not that this is entirely a bad thing from a safety standpoint but is not the classic point that people want to see from a pointing dog. I went through a NAVHDA obedience class and some of the people there thought that elevated obedience training tended to make a dog stick to close when it came to hunting and not range out as you would want a pointing dog. If you can train your chessie to point more power to you. If you want a pointer then I'd suggest talking to people who have them and find out who their breeder is then contact the breeder and
ask questions. You will get out of your dog only what you put into it in terms of training and obedience. Consistancy is the key.