poor ramp etiquette (Too FAST, this time)

[wall eyell be]

Okay we've all discussed the frustration of those who are slow or fartin' around on the ramp and we've pretty well come to the consensus that some of them don't care that others are waiting, BUT we've also granted that At Least SOME of them have the EXCUSE that they Just Don't Know Any Better.

Well Friday night my fishin partner and I experienced the other end of the extreme. Two boats launched by two individuals in too much of a hurry. We found this scenario to be even more annoying because it was potentially dangerous And It Was Two Guys Who SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER ! ! !

[Rick]

You need to be more specific in your description. We really don't know what you're talking about here????

We love folks who can load fast, safe and efficiently.

Too fast??? that's like too much money, too much fun, or girls that are too pretty

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 10-13-2003).]

[wall eyell be]

I also love when people load QUICK, efficiently, AND S A F E ! This situation was more like pushing the boundaries of rudeness and as I alluded to in the original post DEFINITELY PUSHING THE ENVELOPE OF SAFETY. All in the name of being on the spot one minute sooner? There is a limit to how fast is too fast when driving through the parking lot at the access to get to the ramp. (The lot had about thirty rigs already parked in it, about two thirds full. My buddy and one other rig who had just launched were driving from the ramp to a parking spot and there were about half a dozen people on foot around the access and parking lot when these two came in twice as fast as I would drive through there if there were NO other vehicles OR people in the entire place.)

And that's just in the parking lot before they even got to the ramp. What happened at the ramp is a longer story. (I'll post that part after Mon. Night Football is over).

When we got out on the water my partner said "That guy was an A--H---, they came through the access like they own the place"

We held our tongues at the ramp and also for the next six hours (fished within shouting distance of them all night and their on-the-water behavior was just fine). So I guess rather than have a confrontation that would have ruined an otherwise lovely fishin trip, this is where and when I vent (sorry).

[This message has been edited by wall eyell be (edited 10-13-2003).]

[wall eyell be]

Ok here's the rest of the story (sorry Rick you asked for more details),though I won't name the public access or the individuals. As I don't really want this to be personal, just a reminder for us to be as considerate of those who just launched ahead of us as we are in quickly clearing the ramp for those behind us.

The reason I say they should have known better, is they were two guides. (I knew who they were, and they aren't posters on Fishing Minnesota). The one excuse I'll grant them is they're still kinda young and gung-ho.

So . . . It's a double ramp with one launching pier between the two ramps. We had just unloaded on the north ramp. I'm about half way out on the pier with the bow rope, and my buddy has just pulled the trailer out of the water. When these two come RACING through the parking lot to the ramp. I'm trying to get off the pier and to the sandy beach south of the ramp, pulling the boat over to the beach so we'll be out of the way (north of the ramp is all trees; a tough area to beach a boat). Just as I step off the pier, the first guy backs down the south ramp right in my path. So I go back out on the pier, push my buddy's boat back to straight off the end of the pier so this guy can launch. I'm thinking as soon as he launches, I'll pull over to the beach. He launches and sits with his boat right next to the end of the pier (just to the south of my buddy's boat) and proceeds to warm up his outboard. So now I can't get around him to get to the beach, so I decide I'll have to pull it over to the trees north of the ramp. Just then RACER #2 comes barrelin' down the north ramp. As he's unloading his boat, my buddy has parked, walks out to the end of the pier, we're gettin in the boat and these two are puttin the squeeze play on us. I push off from the dock and have to stay up on the bow so that I can then push off from Racer #2's outboard as his boat is scootin' off the trailer and right at us. (Even after I've actually touched the back of his outboard, He just acted like we weren't even there.) They were only hurrying for themselves as there wasn't anyone behind them waiting to launch.

Anyhow no scratches, breaks, dents, or bruises to either man or machine and the rest of the night was great; so as I said we didn't let it ruin our night.
But it Taught Me That There Is Such A Thing as Too Much Hurry For Yourself When it means that You completely Disregard Others.

[kwkfsh]

I could not agree more that going to fast and not paying attention can be dangerous.

HOWEVER! I launch and load my boat well over 100 times per year and I can tell you that the average boat launch IQ is very, very low. The average person I encounter has done his fellow boaters a huge disservice by not becoming proficient in the art of launching or loading his boat.

I have timed myself from the top of the ramp where I normally launch. To launch is usually 3 mins. or less to launch and clear the ramp, and to load is usually 4 mins or less to load and clear the ramp. It is very fast and efficient but when this is multiplied by 100 times it still comes out to 600 or 700 hundred mins. or 10 to 11.66 hrs.. This is alot of time spent on the boat ramp. Each unneccesary minute I spend times 100 equals 1.66 hrs of fishing time to me.

I have no problem with any one taking 5 mins. to launch or to load. If you take more than that without a good excuse, such as broken or malfunctioning equipment you are in effect stealing time on the water from all the boaters who are waiting for you.

If you can not back up your trailer skillfully then you need to go find an empty parking lot and practice with some orange cones until you can smoothly back it into anything but the crack of dawn or a broken heart! If you cannot do this then you are a menace and an irritant to everyone else on the ramp.

I will apologize in advance if I hurt anyones feelings but I am very serious about this. Every person who uses a boat ramp should have the goal of becoming at the very least, proficient at the boat ramp.

LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO SPEND IT ON THE BOAT RAMP!

[Crawlerman]

The boat ramp on Spring Lake is now ruined (until the DNR comes out to fix it, which will likely be next year.) Due to some of these low IQ boaters. The launch and lake level is VERY shallow and now there are big breaches in the cement blocks due to idiots who tried to ram their boat on the trailer (which you really can't do in less than 2' of water) I'd hate to have seen some of the lower unit damage these idjits got from doing this, but it serves tme right for ruining the launch for the rest of us. Some of the potholes are over 2' deep!

[Grabs]

Goes back to again,...needing to pass a boating test to be able to drive a boat in this state!! We need to take drivers tests for our cars, we don't we have to take a test to drive a boat and I guess that should include launching and landing also.

This would really cut back on the number of idoits on the water, many of these people would never be able to pass a test of this sort!

[MNice]

Grab's, good idea, but with the driving test already required, it's been my experience that there are still plenty of idiots on our road system. We don't need more regulations, what we need is a big dose of common courtesy.

[Surface Tension]

I consider myself fast and efficient putting in and out at the landings. This can be done at safe speeds in the parking lot and ramp areas along with common courtesy. The poster was trying to be courteous by attempting to move his boat off the dock and onto the beach thus making room for the next boat being launched. Waiting the extra 30 seconds for you to move your boat would have been the right thing to do. Miscommunication or Rudeness who knows but its bound to happen when saying Hello and acknowledging others would cut into 2 seconds of fishing time. I'll take the extra minute to be safe, and just an allround nice guy.

[Aquaman01]

I have no genetic-memory for the act of Launching A Boat. I had to learn through aquiring the knowledge and practicing it.

Rob

[scifisher]

Its not for the majority that most laws are made. Its for the minority that didn't learn, or doesn't care what common courtesy is. I think as more and more people get boats and other water craft in this state, there is going to have to be some way of regulating knowledge in order to keep our waterways nice and orderly and not to mention safe. Maybe we can have a "boating for idiots" test. For me, I'm just glad I have a canoe. I can pretty much throw in anywhere and not worry about the mess at the launch.

Scifisher

[scifisher]

Aquaman

According to B.F. Skinner, your aptitude for launching boats is genetically determined. So you can practice, but your genetics will determine how good you are regardless of how much you practice. I hate behaviorism!

Scifisher

[Surface Tension]

That reminds me of an old one-liner.
"I was born that way, whats your excuse"

[This message has been edited by Surface Tension (edited 10-15-2003).]

[walleyehawk]

I was fishing with wall eyell be Friday evening at Mille Lacs on the west side.

As I was parking my vehicle, two vehicles cut across the parking lot at a high speed. I walked back to the ramp. Can't run as I had back surgery a year ago and still don't have complete feeling in my leg and have to wear a brace.

I get to the ramp and the jerk is backing down our side and wall eye be is holding my boat at the end of the dock. There is no way he can back in without hitting my boat. I'm thinking who does this idiot think he is and what is his rush? I have wall eyell be get in the boat and I start the motor.

The jerk lets go of his boat and wall eyell be has to grab his motor to stop us from having his boat hit mine hard. Could he not have waited 15 seconds before letting go of the boat on the trailer?? With accesses shallow, a little patience now days goes a long way toward courtesy and shows professionalism on his part.

Here is the problem. There are not other vehicles in line to launch so what is the rush? I was going as fast as I can. Can't you wait 30 seconds for the prior group to clear out before you launch. It was like this arrogant jerk did not even recognize another boat was still in the space he needed to launch. Even if he backs in, why let the boat go!! Don't you see us there? There was no apology for nearly hitting us. This jerk gives guides a bad name. When you have "Team Crestliner" on your Suburban, and you have your picture on your postings at your fishing minnesota wannabe website, you get recognized. Bad move Jim. The "moving waters" were not going that fast!!

We could have started the motor and got out of the way but this all happened so fast and how can you predict the rudeness of others. And I heard him say to someone else that his clients were not even there. What is the rush!!

He acted like he owned the lake. When he wins a few PWT tournaments or has Lindner as a last name, I will get out of his way and let him launch before me. Until then, get in line, wait your turn, be courteous and we will all get out on the water and enjoy ourselves.

I am not a great fisherman, maybe not even good some days , and may need a guide service someday, but this yahoo will never get my business!!!

[EBass]

Very entertaining stories here - lol

[Cyberfish]

LOL Hawk, now tell us how you really feel!!
It was good to see ya at G mtn. and glad to find out your "identity" and that eyell character haha !!

May all your future boat landings be smooth !

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><}}}("< ---><!>

[waterfowler]

I'm not calling you guys liars, but I was sitting in line Friday night, as a matter of fact, I was standing in front of my pickup waiting to launch when I watched the aforementioned guides launch on Friday night. Heck I talked to both of them. I did not see the incident you've described at all. I will not defend these guys, they are big boys. As with most info on the net, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt anyway.

I'm always frustrated with guys who hang onto their boats at the dock while the other guy parks the truck. Can't he get out of the way for the rest of us to dump in and then come back and pick his buddy up when he's back from parking his vehicle??? If the guy can't run the boat, can't he at least be trusted to park the truck???

I think when your going to call someone to the carpet, you may want to make sure their aren't other witnesses/perspectives around. As for the comment on the FM wanna be site, well there lots of great fishing sites on the net. You should use them if they provide you the medium to share/learn for the bodies of water that interest you. The FM site is very different than the site you mentioned and that's why I visit them both.

[Beckman]

I'll have to agree with the Waterfowler here... I was sitting around waiting for my buddy at that access friday night when this 'incident' happened. I didn't notice anything wrong or rushed about the way they landed the boat and I hope people don't think bad about this guide because of what is said on here by the other party that was holding their boat.

[wall eyell be]

Granted there's at least two perspectives here (no pancake's so thin that it only has one side). I'm willin to live with that as obviously my perspective will be the one that judges this situation the harshest. And I'll admit that I now find myself more often of the "old man" perspective that the younger guys are driving too fast for the situation. Which probably means that the younger guys think I'm the geezer who's goin too slow.

Now in my defense, I wasn't trying to "wait at the dock with the boat until Hawk got back from parking the truck". I was on foot pulling to the beach with the bow rope; I can do this as fast as I can climb in the boat and get it started (on foot is actually faster if the outboard doesn't pop right off).
As for the other site, I got nothin against it either. I look at it once in a while and find it useful.
I certainly hope this was an isolated incident.

[wall eyell be]

U.J.'s theoritcally "perfect launch" as done by the NASCAR Pit Crew.
and
Hawk's theoritcally perfect launch as performed by "that masked man" SuperGuide.

Both good humor. Just reading them has started to put me in a better mood. I must admit this thread was gettin brutal (thanks in large part to me). So were the humorous messages inserted just when we needed them most?

[walleyehawk]

I will stand by my prior post.

Why does anyone back a boat into the access when there is still a boat on that side of the launch site? Why did he back it within 2 feet of my boat. Where did he think it would go when he released it?

Maybe walleyelle be should have gone in and fired up the motor, would have been ok with me. But we had a launch rope on and that is how he was trying to get out of the way. I was just getting out of my vehicle when the guide in question cuts across the access speeding. I had to walk 75 feet back to the access and did so immediately. And I was there and we were getting into the boat as he kept backing closer to my boat.

All I am saying is 15-20 seconds of courtesy. Say he would have hit my boat. He could have damaged his boat/motor/prop and jeapordized his evening of fishing. That and the pain in the a$$ insurance paperwork. And just so he can do the speed launch? What is the rush, your clients are not even there yet.

Beckman/waterfowler maybe you were at the launch when this happened but from my perspective, an 18 foot Crestliner with a 175 hp motor coming down toward me is not a good view, trust me. And why did he release the boat if he saw us there? I can't beleive anyone would launch while others were still there just to make a point (we were not fast enough for him). Why then did he launch?? He had to see us getting ready to go, why not wait a few seconds? What does he prove by damaging two boats? Based on your post, maybe he was spending too much time talking and not watching what he was doing?

Bottom line, it was not like we were taking 5-10 minutes. We are talking the time to park the trailer and walk back. 2-3 minutes max to launch.

I guess when I go looking for a guide, I think ability to catch fish is important, but SAFETY is just as key. And what I witnessed Friday evening did not leave me with the impression this guide was concerned about safety. And those that read this can take this with a grain of salt as waterfowler suggests but I hope you don't run into this party at the access when he is in a rush. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

[wall eyell be]

didn't notice anything wrong with the way he launched his boat?
if you were there but didn't see me leave my handprint on the back of his kicker motor . . . okay . . . maybe you Didn't notice, but when another boat is within arms reach of my boat SOMETHING'S wrong.

Please guys; just remember if someone just launched immediately ahead of you AND someone is waiting immediately behind you, your concern in hurrying for the benefit of the guy behind you (if taken to the extreme) can come off as being pushy to the guy who's immediately ahead of you.

[united jigsticker]

Yeah but all those folks that read how being slow is irritating did what we all suggested and went to the nearest empty lot, rig in tow, and practiced practiced practiced until they were as efficient at launching their boats as the pit crews are in Nascar at changing tires.

• Come into the lot about 35 mph.
• Slow to 25, and passenger opens his door
• Slow to 20 and passenger does a "tuck and roll" onto the pavement
• When vehicle stops to engage in reverse, passenger uses large machetti to slice safety straps.
• Passenger leaps in boat and sits at the front of the bow
• Driver starts in reverse, smoking the rear tires with a loud squeel
• Passenger releases the winch while vehicle is still in transit (the rearward innertia holds the boat on the trailer)
• Passenger crawls to back of boat and starts motor
• Driver slams on the brakes sending boat off the trailer.
• Driver engages vehicle into 4 wheel drive, shifts to 1st gear and "barks" all 4 radials on dry concrete ramp
• Passenger lowers running motor, and starts to back away from the dock to make space for other boaters/launchers
• Driver runs onto dock at full speed and longjumps into boat
• Driver and passenger go fishing
  

sorry, that would just be rediculous.

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Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by united jigsticker (edited 10-15-2003).]

[scifisher]

That is like launching the boat "Matrix style!"

[Guest]

Walleyehalk,
On the French Lake access (Faribault, MN area), after I got my Alumacraft 19 footer all loaded up... I looked to see a group of folks all sitting in lawn chairs beside the ramp.
They had score cards!
1 thru 10, they were ranking the loading of each boat that came out.

I scored an 8,8,9,8,7 for a total.

I thought this was pretty good as I was not even trying to load very fast.
I guessed I did a fairly good job.

We all laughed as I joined them to watch a couple more of the boaters loading up.
The looks the boaters had once they caught on to the score system, was fabulious.

I found out in the conversation that this was the major source of entertainment and daily activity for these folks who camped at this park, which was right next to the ramp (a park in which they had their travel trailers and motor-homes).

Then comes in to load, a guy with the wife and three kids. A very wild bunch! We could hear them way before we actually saw them. Mom was yelling, Pop was swearing, the kids were not helping or not minding.
We watched as this guy went for the car (he is in a mad rush here), backed it in and hooked her up, then started to pull ahead... he sticks his head out the drivers window and yells for his kids to "get the [xxxxxxx] out of the boat!".
The kids who were six to twelve years old, paid no attention. The guy tries several times to order his kids out of the boat, and to the one who now is sitting on the side of the boat, to get off the boat.
He pulls ahead, stops, rolls back, shoots ahead, stops, rolls back, pulls ahead... trying to shake the kids off and out the boat! One kid is hanging on to the side of the boat and is straddled on the trailer's fender-well. The mom is yelling now for him to "get the [xxxxxx] off the boat".
Dad pulls up off the ramp and stops, the kids bail, then dad pulls up a bit more. The trailer tire runs over the boy siting on the fender and pins his leg to the pavement.
The kid goes nuts, screaming!
Mom runs to see what is wrong, dad puts the car in park and bails out too. The kid's leg is pinned under the tire! Dad swears, Mom swears, both stand there for what seemed to be, way too long... telling the kid the "we told you so" routine. Dad goes back and drives forward and mom helps the kid up and to the car. They all start to load up.

I look at the group of spectators who are arranging their rateings cards for this one. Out comes the rateings... 10,10,10,10 10 !!! The guy sees this and gives a big thumbs-up, and then I begin thinking of my own scores as I walk away... hum... not so good.
I figured I best be working on my launch/load delivery.

Try as I might... I may never be as "slick" of a loader as some out there.
Maybe that is a good thing!
I'll just take my time.
Catch'n
Dave Hoggard

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Fishermen are catch-n on
Catch'n Tackle
For Bass, Walleye, Pike, Lakers, Trout, Panfish
Used by FishingMN Family

[walleyehawk]

Dang, that is what this dude did!!

Except since he was by himself he bungied the steering wheel to the seat and jumped out the rear of the vehicle onto the boat which he unhooks with his trailing hand. No safety chain usage for our superhero. No transom tie downs either. Real men don't need transom tiedowns.

As he pushed off the bow with his foot, he jumps into the vehicle again allowing the boat to shoots off the trailer. With cat like quickness he rockets back into the vehicle, throws himself into the front seat, puts the vehicle into forward, jumps up through the moon roof and onto the top of his vehicle. He surveys the access. He then sprints the length of the vehicle and flies through the air to the thirty feet out where his boat is, and lands nicely into the seat of his console.

And those of us minions on the dock ask, "Who was that masked man?"

And there he stands, on top of his vehicle, now neatly parked in the lot, access light shining on him (until the DNR stops lighting the accesses as a cost cutting move)

He is Super Guide.

I am humbled.

[upnorth]

(Copied from another post)
I'm always frustrated with guys who hang onto their boats at the dock while the other guy parks the truck. Can't he get out of the way for the rest of us to dump in and then come back and pick his buddy up when he's back from parking his vehicle??? If the guy can't run the boat, can't he at least be trusted to park the truck???

I have a hard time believing someone wrote this statement. I think we all need to relax and enjoy the whole experience of fishing Life is too dang short to get upset over something like this.

[Beckman]

It's true I didn't notice you guys holding your boat there and being in the way. Sorry but I have had to launch around guys that were holding their boat before. I've waited for these boat holders before... sometimes it takes 10 minutes before they're off the dock, you never know, I don't know why it takes some so long it just usually does. You say you would have got out of the way if this guy's name was Linder... well why can't you extend this same courtesy to everyone who lands their boat behind you?

[wall eyell be]

OK one more time for clarity . . . then if you don't get it, well ya just don't get it.

I also don't like the "holding" the boat next to the pier, thus blocking the next guy from being able to back down the ramp situation. That's why . . .
I was TRYING to get out of the ramp/pier area and over to the beach(so that I wouldn't be "holding my boat there and being in the way"), when the guy who used the south ramp cut me off. (i.e. if I had been two steps further and actually walking across the ramp, he may have runned my --- over.) This forced me back out to the end of the pier with the boat and as he sat with his boat extending from the southeast corner of the pier, that set me up to be in the way of the north ramp. I would have got into the boat and moved into the harbor at this point, but now Hawk is just stepping onto the pier to come get in the boat. I wouldn't be quite so upset if the guy on the south ramp who cut off (then blocked) my route to the beach area and the guy on the north ramp who then launched right into us were total strangers who were oblivious to each other. BUT they happen to be partners in their guide service and were obviously traveling together at the time.

[This message has been edited by wall eyell be (edited 10-16-2003).]

[This message has been edited by wall eyell be (edited 10-16-2003).]

[This message has been edited by wall eyell be (edited 10-16-2003).]

[waterfowler]

The whole incident in question has multiple perspectives, heck I'm not so proud to say mine is a 100% right. I do understand you defending yourself since I was the one who called you to carpet.

My point in all this, what you perceive as driving too fast, may not be perceived the same by me or the next guy. What you perceive as launching in a haste, may not be hastily at all in my book. When I get to the lake, I want fish, not wait at the dock to launch. Maybe he didn't see you walking across the parking lot, heck I don't know. All I know, no matter what upnorth thinks, I hate sitting at a landing waiting to launch while joe is holding the boat and bill is parking the truck.

At any rate, you don't have to choose this guide for any future fishing outings, but you will be hard pressed to find many who offer the quality of service he does. I can personally attest to this. I'm done with this thread, we disagree, enough said.