Finding trophy caliber fish

[IceHawk]

There has been a lot of talk about trophy fish  on the site and in the fishing community as of late. So I thought I would try and give some advise maybe some tips to a approach that helps me up my odds of landing some quality fish. .Obviously there are different opinions on a trophy caliber fish to some who aren't as experienced or don't get out a lot  a 8 1/2 inch gill or 11 inch crappie is considered a trophy. My hats off to them and a congratulations goes out to them but IMO  in time with experience they will set the bar higher. Myself  and a few other experienced anglers I fish with set some pretty high goals for ourselves. I consider a 10 inch gill up and a 13 inch crappie up trophy caliber fish. I know that standard is high but its been achieved quite a few times and you have to set higher goals to work hard to achieve them. Here are some steps I recommend to help in your search. 1)  Well first thing is research, do some searching here and other areas on the internet and find out what areas counties are notorious for kicking out trophy caliber fish. You definitely up your odds and percentages by putting yourself in the right area.  You don't want to hit lakes that are notorious for small panfish AKA nursery's. And also be willing to put on some miles there's a reason trophy panfish come from far away less harvest and pressure. I will help your search Douglas, Todd, Beltrami, Ottertail and Kanabec are some bread butter areas that always produce trophy fish every year. 2) Go to MN  Lakefinder in that county you intend to target  and search lake  surveys. Look at two things number of fish netted and size netted. For Gills I look for high numbers of 8-9 and with any luck a few in the 10-11 in same lake.  For crappies I look for high numbers in 10-11 and a few in the 12-14 inch range. Next lakes with occasional winterkill and 5 -10 fish limit rules are worth investigateing. 3) Once a lake is selected do some research on it water clarity history etc. Pick the lake according to time you intend to fish. If daytime fishing stained moderately dirty lakes would be my choice. If fishing the evening  AKA wheelhouse dunking minnows a clear body of water will  normally be the ticket. I also like to chase trophy panfish in Known walleye lakes as they tend to grow some hogs as they often aren't targeted for that species  and get bypassed by the walleye fisherman. 4) Go out fishing an if all possible get out prime time very early before first light or right before the evening bite. IMO in all my years of fishing I would say 75% of the trophys I have caught Ice fishing have been at daybreak. My philosophy is noise really plays key in ice fishing. Ever notice how the Red Lake bite and many other lakes always die when the trucks and wheelhouses come out? Noise pushes them off. I like to have holes cut shacks set  well before dawn in prime locations and be ready.  Isn't that why there called sunfish  And be quiet you cant realize  how many times I witnessed on my camera fish spooking from as much as a boot with cleats scraping ice. Lastly  when fishing on a piece of water get to know your neighbor fishing by you give a friendly Hello maybe start a conversation some small talk . You cant imagine how many leads locations on that lake I have got just by being friendly. Hopefully some of this advise tips will help a few in the Quest of a Trophy.

Edited January 29, 2020 by IceHawk

[Getanet]

Really interesting advice. I'm especially interested in why you say to look for lakes with occasional winter kill. Why is that? Less competition for food?

[IceHawk]

Partial Winter kill  basically thins the population, eliminateing the stunting going on in a lot of lakes because of a over abundance of panfish.  Sort of thin the herd.  During a partial winterkill not all panfish will die and the ones that make it grow real quick.  This comes  from less competition for food and forage.  Another benefit is getting rid of high rough fish populations that frequent a lot of winterkill lakes such as bullheads carp. Rough fish  basically ruin the ecosystem by destroying weeds which in case create habitat and microorganisims that it takes to grow sumo panfish.  Sort of a full circle rebuild  in the underwater world.  

[smurfy]

while i tend to agree with most everything you posted icehawk, i'm going to disagree to a degree regarding the winter kill and fish growing big faster. NOW i'm not looking for an argument!!!!! the lake our cabin is on is what what i would consider was one of those trophy fish, sunfish, lakes back in the day. since 1965 when we first bough the place 3/4 to lb sunfish off the dock. this lake has had a winter kill 4 times since we owned the place. last year it had a severe winter kill, and i'd bet all the beer in my house that it will get finished off this year.

 

one year it had a winter kill, fish population decreased but was ok so to speak.  several years later it had another winter kill, and numbers and size went off on the wayside. it did rebound in numbers but never in size. it be a good outing if ya caught 3 to a lb fish.

 

now before you say it i will. i'm sure it has alot to do with it being a smaller up north lake. like itasca county north. the lack of weeds for food or cover where never an issues, actually probably is a main reason it winterkilled. there is a 50 ft hole as well as a good amount of 20-30 ft of water. but alot of shallow 6-8 ft of weedy bays!!!!

 

ok icehawk....give it to me!!!!!!

[ozzie]

I am sure Icehawks theory doesn't play out on all lakes, but my findings is more inline with what Icehawk stated.  It may have to do with after a lake is winterkilled pressure is usually nonexistent for a few years, and if there is a good year class hatch the next year, they tend to grow quicker as the competition is less and the forage can still be abundant.  When I was on the ice more often I used to keep an eye on lakes that winterkilled and would try to hit them 2-3 years later.  Not always a payday but often we found success with little competition for fishing spots.   Good read and discussion!

[gimruis]

3 hours ago, IceHawk said:

I consider a 10 inch gill up and a 13 inch crappie up trophy caliber fish.

 

I fish the crappie contest every year on Lake Minnetonka in early May and someone brings in a 15+ inch crappie out there every time.  Last year the biggest was a 16.5 incher.

[smurfy]

1 hour ago, ozzie said:

I am sure Icehawks theory doesn't play out on all lakes, but my findings is more inline with what Icehawk stated.  It may have to do with after a lake is winterkilled pressure is usually nonexistent for a few years, and if there is a good year class hatch the next year, they tend to grow quicker as the competition is less and the forage can still be abundant.  When I was on the ice more often I used to keep an eye on lakes that winterkilled and would try to hit them 2-3 years later.  Not always a payday but often we found success with little competition for fishing spots.   Good read and discussion!

thats why i left myself an exit plan  with the northern minnesota lake. i've researched a pile of lakes in that area on the DNR lakefinder and i dont recall many reports that dont say that that certain class lake has slower then normal growth rates!!!!!!

[IceHawk]

Smurfy No arguments from me I like honest feedback and welcome it. Isn't this why we come to this forum to learn and have fun! Thanks for responding bud appreciate it! . Mind you I'm a guy who likes to fish a ton and not a fisheries biologist but there are a few questions that may answer your question on your lake. How many back to back winterkills have happened were they partials or full blown?  Did the fish get enough years in between them to grow substantially  before another winterkill? When the fish reached the 7-8 inch mark did the crowds come and harvest a pile of gills before they reached there potential especially back to back years?  Are the people on the lake practicing CPR of the Gills 9 inch plus and restricting fishing the Bulls out of the beds during spawn ? Lastly the genetics could also be playing a role in why they haven't reached that trophy status supposedly there once was. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by IceHawk

[IceHawk]

1 hour ago, ozzie said:

I am sure Icehawks theory doesn't play out on all lakes, but my findings is more inline with what Icehawk stated.  It may have to do with after a lake is winterkilled pressure is usually nonexistent for a few years, and if there is a good year class hatch the next year, they tend to grow quicker as the competition is less and the forage can still be abundant.  When I was on the ice more often I used to keep an eye on lakes that winterkilled and would try to hit them 2-3 years later.  Not always a payday but often we found success with little competition for fishing spots.   Good read and discussion!

Spot on and well said Ozzie . Most of the winterkill lakes get by passed or lost in the shuffle allowing ample time for the fish to slip through the cracks so to speak, avoid harvest be untouched  and be able to grow to there status as a True trophy! 

[smurfy]

2 hours ago, IceHawk said:

Smurfy No arguments from me I like honest feedback and welcome it. Isn't this why we come to this forum to learn and have fun! Thanks for responding bud appreciate it! . Mind you I'm a guy who likes to fish a ton and not a fisheries biologist but there are a few questions that may answer your question on your lake. How many back to back winterkills have happened were they partials or full blown?  Did the fish get enough years in between them to grow substantially  before another winterkill? When the fish reached the 7-8 inch mark did the crowds come and harvest a pile of gills before they reached there potential especially back to back years?  Are the people on the lake practicing CPR of the Gills 9 inch plus and restricting fishing the Bulls out of the beds during spawn ? Lastly the genetics could also be playing a role in why they haven't reached that trophy status supposedly there once was. 

ok i'll try to answer your questions. I don't believe there where any back to back winter kills. last year and this year will be the first. i'm almost certain it will happen this year. i'd bank on it.

yes I truly believe they had enough time to grow. 

no, I do not believe that lake got hit by the crowds, most people fish it for bass and pike. some hit it in the winter for crappies. if i'm up there during the week we rarely see strange boats, maybe cabin owners. weekends its so so but mostly bass guys.

I haven't seen a 9 inch gill in 15 years. we actually have taken a bunch of small ones out because there so small for so long. and the pike had a healthy diet of sunfish. to me up until last year I was of the opinion there were to many sunfish in the lake.

regarding bull on the beds...…...like I said we haven't seen a bull in 15 years. 

lastly the genetics of the lake, if these fish had the size years ago why not now??????? they were there once!!!!

there probably was 10 12 years between freeze outs!!!!!!!  Lastly we rarely see people on the lake during the winter or for that matter of evidence. Maybe to the crappie hole occasionally  a spear shack now and then.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by smurfy

[Rick]

29 minutes ago, smurfy said:

ok i'll try to answer your questions. I don't believe there where any back to back winter kills. last year and this year will be the first. i'm almost certain it will happen this year. i'd bank on it.

yes I truly believe they had enough time to grow. 

no, I do not believe that lake got hit by the crowds, most people fish it for bass and pike. some hit it in the winter for crappies. if i'm up there during the week we rarely see strange boats, maybe cabin owners. weekends its so so but mostly bass guys.

I haven't seen a 9 inch gill in 15 years. we actually have taken a bunch of small ones out because there so small for so long. and the pike had a healthy diet of sunfish. to me up until last year I was of the opinion there were to many sunfish in the lake.

regarding bull on the beds...…...like I said we haven't seen a bull in 15 years. 

lastly the genetics of the lake, if these fish had the size years ago why not now??????? they were there once!!!!

there probably was 10 12 years between freeze outs!!!!!!!  Lastly we rarely see people on the lake during the winter or for that matter of evidence. Maybe to the crappie hole occasionally  a spear shack now and then.

 

Most likely genetics and/or the habitat type.

 

I also like musky lakes when going after big gills or crappies. Not sure why, but average size sure seems bigger.

[smurfy]

So if the habitat hasn't changed or the genetic where there why not now???

[Rick G]

40 minutes ago, smurfy said:

ok i'll try to answer your questions. I don't believe there where any back to back winter kills. last year and this year will be the first. i'm almost certain it will happen this year. i'd bank on it.

yes I truly believe they had enough time to grow. 

no, I do not believe that lake got hit by the crowds, most people fish it for bass and pike. some hit it in the winter for crappies. if i'm up there during the week we rarely see strange boats, maybe cabin owners. weekends its so so but mostly bass guys.

I haven't seen a 9 inch gill in 15 years. we actually have taken a bunch of small ones out because there so small for so long. and the pike had a healthy diet of sunfish. to me up until last year I was of the opinion there were to many sunfish in the lake.

regarding bull on the beds...…...like I said we haven't seen a bull in 15 years. 

lastly the genetics of the lake, if these fish had the size years ago why not now??????? they were there once!!!!

there probably was 10 12 years between freeze outs!!!!!!!  Lastly we rarely see people on the lake during the winter or for that matter of evidence. Maybe to the crappie hole occasionally  a spear shack now and then.

 

Once those original large male gills were removed, either by winterkill or man, it is extremely difficult to replace them. The smaller sunfish will mature earlier and the lake will have a much tougher time recovering. Thus having several year classes of stunted growth happining. 

[monstermoose78]

I agree with Icehawk completely with the winter kill lakes. Some of my favorite lakes are considered ducks hunting lakes and are not deep enough to have fish people tell me. I will tell you are missing out if you don’t try those shallow duck lakes.

 

Also if you get on those trophy gills or crappies please don’t keep this 9 plus inch gills or those 12 inch crappies. I am not saying you can’t keep a couple to put on the wall but don’t fill your bucket full of them. I post photos of big numbers of fish but no gills over 8 inches go in my bucket or crappies over 12 inches.

[mrpike1973]

Excellent Info here!! My biggest lesson if they are not there you cant catch them. Always check lake finder out and if your truly after trophies don't bother with lakes that have stunted bluegill populations. Also something I learned being mostly a bass guy come summer if your on good bass water, not always but most of the time there is a good sunfish population also. The predators keep the forage(sunfish) down. I'm talking lakes with 17 plus inch fish as the norm. Normally bass lakes that have lots of little sunfish and smaller bass 3 pounds and less usually not the place to be this is not gospel but observation through my years. Excellent conversations here.

[Kettle]

11 minutes ago, monstermoose78 said:

Also if you get on those trophy gills or crappies please don’t keep this 9 plus inch gills or those 12 inch crappies. I am not saying you can’t keep a couple to put on the wall but don’t fill your bucket full of them. I post photos of big numbers of fish but no gills over 8 inches go in my bucket or crappies over 12 inches.

I hope with time this becomes common practice in the future!

[smurfy]

Just so you guys understand, I'm not disagreeing, I'm actually picking your brain. This lake had awesome sunfish. Several winterkills and no more. I'm finding this interesting. If I catch a sunfish I see has potential if goes back in. Pretty bluegill colors are one clue.

Edited January 30, 2020 by smurfy

[monstermoose78]

16 minutes ago, smurfy said:

Just so you guys understand, I'm not disagreeing, I'm actually picking your brain. This lake had awesome sunfish. Several winterkills and no more. I'm finding this interesting. If I catch a sunfish I see has potential if goes back in. Pretty bluegill colors are one clue.

It takes time. I normally want 5-7 years between winter kills. What do you want to know ? ask away man.

Edited January 30, 2020 by monstermoose78

[Rick G]

16 minutes ago, smurfy said:

 I'm finding this interesting. If I catch a sunfish I see has potential if goes back in. Pretty bluegill colors are one clue.

This is a very important practice to continue and to teach others if you want to see beter numbers or larger fish

[smurfy]

8 minutes ago, monstermoose78 said:

It takes time. I normally want 5-7 years between winter kills. What do you want to know ? ask away man.

Well the biggest frustration for me is this lake put out some really nice gills. Why not now. The habitat hasn't changed and one would think the genetics to a degree still have to be there.

[Borch]

Also many of these winterkill lakes are very fertile.   Throw in freshwater shrimp and you have a recipe for fast growing with tanker potential. 

[IceHawk]

 

[Rick G]

My favorites are large bodies of water, though the fish are typically harder to find on these larger bodies, they usually are worth the effort. Not to mention those bigger waters are just tougher to fish out. There is always a couple shools that never get found.

Bodies of water with river systems going through them are almost always a good bet for large panfish, mostly because of the food  and cover that is readily available within rivers. Trophy calibre pannies just seem to do well in and around rivers

Lakes with high nutrient loades(aka polluted lakes) typically around large farms or within a watershed with a lot of agriculture. The added nutrient loades usually help promote invertebrate growth,this is almost always a good food source to grow big pannies. 

I have to agree with the hawk on slot and reduced limit lakes. Some of those can be very good because most of the meat hunters will overlook them as a food source, choosing higher bag limits over larger size.

[gimruis]

11 hours ago, mrpike1973 said:

Excellent Info here!! My biggest lesson if they are not there you cant catch them. Always check lake finder out and if your truly after trophies don't bother with lakes that have stunted bluegill populations. Also something I learned being mostly a bass guy come summer if your on good bass water, not always but most of the time there is a good sunfish population also. The predators keep the forage(sunfish) down. I'm talking lakes with 17 plus inch fish as the norm. Normally bass lakes that have lots of little sunfish and smaller bass 3 pounds and less usually not the place to be this is not gospel but observation through my years. Excellent conversations here.

 

What has happened with a lot of panfish populations in many lakes (stunted growth and overall small fish population) has now happened with pike too.  Think about how rare it is to catch a big pike out of a smaller lake now.  Generally, they were the apex predator in that system (assuming no muskies).  Now 95% of the pike are hammer handles.  And you wonder why the DNR has a 10 fish daily bag limit designed to keep all the small ones?  There's so many lakes over run with those little slimy aggressive things now because too many people kept a big one and the lake couldn't replace them fast enough over the years.  That, and what do you think is the primary predator keeping small pike in check?  Big pike!  They eat each other.

 

[DonkeyHodey]

17 hours ago, IceHawk said:

Partial Winter kill  basically thins the population, eliminateing the stunting going on in a lot of lakes because of a over abundance of panfish.  Sort of thin the herd.  During a partial winterkill not all panfish will die and the ones that make it grow real quick.  This comes  from less competition for food and forage.  Another benefit is getting rid of high rough fish populations that frequent a lot of winterkill lakes such as bullheads carp. Rough fish  basically ruin the ecosystem by destroying weeds which in case create habitat and microorganisims that it takes to grow sumo panfish.  Sort of a full circle rebuild  in the underwater world.  

I'd like to perhaps challenge your assessment of rough fish.

Numerous "rough fish" particularly bullheads (but also undesired fish like suckers/redhorse) basically make up a good portion the diet of the more desired fish.  They do not harm the ecosystem but in many ways can enhance it.

Common carp are really the only ones that carry any reputation of habitat destroyers.  (However, there is debate as to whether they really are as destructive as their reputation or simply getting blame.)

In a carp's defense, they also lay TONS of eggs that feed crawdads and the VAST majority of their babies get eaten (by desirable fish) and don't grow big.

 

"Rough fish" should perhaps be better named "forage fish" because it's what most of them are.  Unfortunately, they've been under-appreciated and under-protected...  (Rough Fish are often synonymous with "wanton fish destruction"--cutting the belly of a bullhead or stomping on the head of a sucker is about as idiotic as murdering the grocery delivery man and complaining that now the fridge is empty and there's nothing to eat...)

In most lakes, the only "forage" are perch--their numbers are dwindling in just about lake system because there are too many mouths ready to eat them (including humans)...

You cannot have a high-quality predator population without high quality forage.  (Mille Lacs, are you listening?  Oops.  Can of worms, there...) 

 

The phenomena of winterkill usually is:  oxygen sensitive fish die off (sunnies/bass/big fish)  Oxygen tolerant fish survive.  (bullheads, perch)  microorganisms thrive.  Lake becomes an all-you-can-eat buffet for a few years and provided a new event doesn't come too quickly, you get really fast growth rates for fish like sunnies or walleyes (if they get stocked)  I've got a favorite lake that had winterkill in 2017-18--I'll be fishing it heavier this summer as the perching has been fantastic and the stocked walleyes will likely already be eatin' size.

 

 

 

[eyeguy 54]

Agree with releasing the bigger gills. In the old days I kept the nicer ones from 9-9.5 inches but didn’t catch many of them. Mostly stared at bobbers. Lol. Started chasing gills more serious about 10 years ago thru the ice and learned a lot from you guys on this site. Thx for putting up with my questions . Always said if I ever caught a 10 incher I would release it. Still remember that first time when it happened. Was with Tom and he drilled on three lakes that day. My back really sucked back then. Last lake pulled three up in about a 15 minute run. Color me happy. Never will keep one over 10. Now after learning more I won’t keep them over 9. Maybe a couple a year slip into the bucket but the males always go back. I really like the 8-8.5 gills for the fryer. With crappies 12.5 and up go back. Keep a few 11.25-12 inchers once in a while for the smoker but prefer 10-11 when frying. We enjoy eating fish once a week. With all the new technology that comes out every year lowering limits would help i would think. Cutting it in half maybe daily and having a 2 day possession limit? 

Edited January 30, 2020 by eyeguy 54

[DonkeyHodey]

 

12 hours ago, smurfy said:

the pike had a healthy diet of sunfish.

This sorta relates.  Sunfish really aren't a healthy diet for a Pike.  Northerns (relatively) eat few sunfish. (They ATTACK sunfish (as all of us fisherman who fish for them know) but Norts often don't finish the job because sunfish don't go down easy. (round and pokey)).    Northerns prefer long skinny fish--they'll eat 10 perch to 1 sunfish. 

(Which is a big reason why the DNR is stocking fewer and fewer walleyes (because they realize walleye fry pretty much become northern food.))

The only consistent predator of sunfish tends to be bass (or some of the other "roughfish" like bowfin... or possibly catfish species, where they're available.)

 

This is a big reason why a large amount of MN lakes are overloaded with skinny, aggressive norts (They don't have quality forage and just bite off all my lures) and stunted sunnies (which is another issue, but likely related to over-harvesting of large male sunnies…).

23 minutes ago, gimruis said:

what do you think is the primary predator keeping small pike in check?  Big pike!  They eat each other.

 

True.  but, part of the reason the slimy little buggers don't get big enough is there is nothing else to eat...

[smurfy]

26 minutes ago, DonkeyHodey said:

 

This sorta relates.  Sunfish really aren't a healthy diet for a Pike.  Northerns (relatively) eat few sunfish. (They ATTACK sunfish (as all of us fisherman who fish for them know) but Norts often don't finish the job because sunfish don't go down easy. (round and pokey)).    Northerns prefer long skinny fish--they'll eat 10 perch to 1 sunfish. 

(Which is a big reason why the DNR is stocking fewer and fewer walleyes (because they realize walleye fry pretty much become northern food.))

The only consistent predator of sunfish tends to be bass (or some of the other "roughfish" like bowfin... or possibly catfish species, where they're available.)

 

This is a big reason why a large amount of MN lakes are overloaded with skinny, aggressive norts (They don't have quality forage and just bite off all my lures) and stunted sunnies (which is another issue, but likely related to over-harvesting of large male sunnies…).

True.  but, part of the reason the slimy little buggers don't get big enough is there is nothing else to eat...

sorry but i'm totally disagreeing with you on the part of sunfish arent healthy for pike. ive cleaned ALOT of pike from that lake................summer/winter....... them pike are quite healthy and have sunfish in there stomachs. its really tough to catch a pike during the summer because of the sunfish buffet they have in the lake.

[smurfy]

11 hours ago, IceHawk said:

 

wow sex education first thing in the morning!!!!!

[DonkeyHodey]

20 minutes ago, smurfy said:

sorry but i'm totally disagreeing with you on the part of sunfish arent healthy for pike. ive cleaned ALOT of pike from that lake................summer/winter....... them pike are quite healthy and have sunfish in there stomachs. its really tough to catch a pike during the summer because of the sunfish buffet they have in the lake.

No worries.  I like disagreement.  (Glad you are filleting norts.  I think more fisherman should be eating the 18-20 inchers and am glad the DNR is encouraging it--they're fantastic!)

 

My counter-point would be the observation of the number of skinny pike in the mid-late summer.  The "food" that are sunfish is abundant but Norts don't eat enough to maintain girth.

Sonny boy caught this skinny snake in a lake infested with 4 inch sunnies…  This poor fellow needs some calories.

(To compare, when I can't find anything else, one might observe Taco-Bell in my stomache.  That doesn't mean I eat it regularly, nor would it mean I do best with it.)

 

I don't think pike strike/bite based on hunger alone--they strike based on sight/movement (and often "eat" when their belly is full, if the sight-predator instinct is triggered). 

I think pike are tougher to catch in summer because they hang in colder/deeper water (where "action" to a lure is harder to achieve and maintain--It's easy to get a good wobble on a spoon casting and pulling it at a running depth of ~2-3 feet over a weedline; hard to maintain it at 18 feet... (and not get snagged)) 

If norts were gorging themselves on sunfish, I don't think we'd see them lose weight in the dog-days.