Disbelief - mille lacs walleyes - harvest decisions

[monstermoose78]

7 hours ago, gimruis said:

Just because you can't or don't harvest them doesn't mean they aren't worth targeting.  Bass and musky anglers pursue their target species because they enjoy it, not because they want to harvest them.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Like it or not, that is the trend in today's modern fishing world.  Over harvest of our fish populations is exactly what has led to the decline of those species.  People need to get over the idea of targeting fish solely for the sake of keeping them (aka the meat hunters).

I see your point on the perch, and I agree.  They represent the food that a lot of fish in that lake like to eat and when they are not present in sustainable numbers, there are too many mouths to feed.

I release most of the fish I catch but I am a believer of keeping a big fish for the wall. Most musky and bass guys release them all anyways, so why not let someone keep what they think is a trophy fish. If you think I am a meat hunter you have not read many of the posts I have posted.

The bottom line is Mille Lacs messed up from to many big fish. Yes the fishing is amazing at this time, but the lake is out of whack. I keep fish about one out of ten trips and that’s to give my grandma some fresh fish. 

[grundy]

I would like to post my opinion on Mille Lacs but nobody would like it so I will keep my mouth shut!! What about the fish net with all the dead walleyes in it? Yeah right!! Now you know what I'm talking about.

[Sculpin]

The vast majority of people that fish do so to harvest a few fish. I think for the most part the days of the meat hunter, and freezer fillers  are gone. Very few people take the time and expense to arrange a trip, and then release all their fish,  Bass fishermen aside. However, if a bass tasted like a perch, or a walleye, or a crappie, they'd ALL be gone. 

The thing to be most concerned about is recruitment of young people to fish and hunt. I saw a news announcement from the DNR the other day stating fishing license sales are down 40,000 YOY. That's a huge number, and it's only going to get worse.  In addition, the average age of a fishing license buyer is getting pretty old. Same as deer hunting, duck hunting, and most other shooting sports.

Once politicians see the decline in the revenue,  and the voting block diminished, the more difficult it will become fund the DNR. That's why there is so much political apathy about things like Mille Lacs lake, metro politico's don't have a clue, don't care, and won't care. The liberal block doesn't care, won't ever care, nor would they go in their pocket to help.

Sorry for the rant, but it's the tip of a huge iceberg. Mille Lacs is the canary in the coal mine, more is on the way, take it to the bank.   

[PRO-V]

2 hours ago, grundy said:

I would like to post my opinion on Mille Lacs but nobody would like it so I will keep my mouth shut!! What about the fish net with all the dead walleyes in it? Yeah right!! Now you know what I'm talking about.

Agreed. I think it's also crazy that the current tribe killed the largest Souix village there was, drove them almost completely out of Minnesota and built a casino near the site. Now it's claimed we took their ancestoral ground and resources. Maybe they should pack up and move back to Canada and Wisconsin and let the Sioux have their land back. I'm so tired of this crap I could scream.

Edited July 13, 2018 by PRO-V

[ANYFISH2]

If you think netting is the reason for the decline in walleyes or the reason for poor managment, we can discuss that.  They certainly are a factor in all of this.

Make sure sure to keep the discussion about the nets, and policy, please don't turn it into a racial discussion!

[PRO-V]

30 minutes ago, ANYFISH2 said:

If you think netting is the reason for the decline in walleyes or the reason for poor managment, we can discuss that.  They certainly are a factor in all of this.

Make sure sure to keep the discussion about the nets, and policy, please don't turn it into a racial discussion!

Was not turning it into a racial discussion. I just feel we should all be equal in all things as fellow countryman. If groups get to pick and choose when they have the equal rights and when they have extra or special rights then we are not all really treated equally are we? I have always respected people of different races and expect the same in return.

[ANYFISH2]

Sorry Pro-v, did not try to insinuate that you did.  

Just felt like the thread could go the wrong way.  

 

 

[PRO-V]

I hear ya. I view this as a political issue not a racial issue. I just feel that until all U.S. citizens are treated the same we will not have true equality.

[delcecchi]

On 7/7/2018 at 4:06 PM, Sculpin said:

.Vermilion is a prime example, I think their allowable harvest is something like 65,000. Hooking mortality alone would wipe that out..

They do take hooking mortality into consideration on Vermilion. 

[Sculpin]

Interesting...What was hooking mortality in 2017, and what is it thus far in 2018 ?

I just spent two weeks on Vermilion, and I did see a number of floaters on the east end. 

[walros]

I am no fish biologist but I look at what North Dakota does with their stocking as well as our fishery stocking and notice one difference that may have an impact on our lakes.  When North Dakota stocks a lake with prime predator fish (walleye, northern, bass, etc.) they also stock bait fish (minnows, perch, etc.), this may be something that would help the stocked fish have a greater chance of survival short and long term. So my question is, why don't our state biologists do the same? I would like to think that having a abundance of food would make the predator fish stocking more likely to be successful.

 

Okay, I am interested in hearing some of the biologists responses.

[tfin]

So Gimruis has a problem with meat hunters on the lake.  Then he should be promoting the use of cameras instead of guns when out hunting birds or animals.  If you want to fish for sport and look down on those that fish for food then go get a hand held fishing game and sit on the shore.  Believing something is the truth doesn't mean that it is.  You can say the lake isn't mismanaged all you want and that the surveys work because the people using them have advanced degrees.  I work for people in construction that have degrees but don't know crap about what actually happens on a construction site.  The worst thing to happen to electricians is schools putting out project management courses.  Now instead of people with practical knowledge running jobs we have people schooled in theory with big ideas and egos to match.  You Gimruis seem to be the same.  Saying that people shouldn't fish for food and saying they are the problem is insanity.  You have no place in this conversation.

 

[Agronomist_at_IA]

I think anybody can see that the food/forage base is or has declined in Mille lacs.......having a lot of large fish doesn't help it at all. I think they should thin the herd.

[monstermoose78]

Let’s get them 22-27 inch fish out of the lake

[gim]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:47 AM, tfin said:

So Gimruis has a problem with meat hunters on the lake.  Then he should be promoting the use of cameras instead of guns when out hunting birds or animals.  If you want to fish for sport and look down on those that fish for food then go get a hand held fishing game and sit on the shore.  Believing something is the truth doesn't mean that it is.  You can say the lake isn't mismanaged all you want and that the surveys work because the people using them have advanced degrees.  I work for people in construction that have degrees but don't know crap about what actually happens on a construction site.  The worst thing to happen to electricians is schools putting out project management courses.  Now instead of people with practical knowledge running jobs we have people schooled in theory with big ideas and egos to match.  You Gimruis seem to be the same.  Saying that people shouldn't fish for food and saying they are the problem is insanity.  You have no place in this conversation.

 

 

Ok, so all the biologists, scientists, and compiled data is wrong and you're right.  Lets rape and pillage the lake until there's absolutely nothing left.  Great idea tfin.  In fact, maybe when the walleyes are all gone we should harvest all the muskies, smallmouth bass, and pike in the lake too.  And then blame the DNR for it.  Go fly a kite

[Agronomist_at_IA]

13 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Ok, so all the biologists, scientists, and compiled data is wrong and you're right.  Lets rape and pillage the lake until there's absolutely nothing left.  Great idea tfin.  In fact, maybe when the walleyes are all gone we should harvest all the muskies, smallmouth bass, and pike in the lake too.  And then blame the DNR for it.  Go fly a kite

 

Well......The issue is that the biologists, scientists, and others have looked at the compiled data regardless if the data is good or bad, and have no consensus on what is really wrong or going on or how to fix. So out of confusion and not understanding on what's going on they've taken a course of action which doesn't seem to be working. Leaving a bunch of large walleyes in a lake with low forage doesn't work to well. If young recruitment of walleye isn't happening, maybe they should look at trying something else.....

 

[bbfenatic]

On 7/12/2018 at 8:08 PM, Sculpin said:

The vast majority of people that fish do so to harvest a few fish. I think for the most part the days of the meat hunter, and freezer fillers  are gone. Very few people take the time and expense to arrange a trip, and then release all their fish,  Bass fishermen aside. However, if a bass tasted like a perch, or a walleye, or a crappie, they'd ALL be gone. 

The thing to be most concerned about is recruitment of young people to fish and hunt. I saw a news announcement from the DNR the other day stating fishing license sales are down 40,000 YOY. That's a huge number, and it's only going to get worse.  In addition, the average age of a fishing license buyer is getting pretty old. Same as deer hunting, duck hunting, and most other shooting sports.

Once politicians see the decline in the revenue,  and the voting block diminished, the more difficult it will become fund the DNR. That's why there is so much political apathy about things like Mille Lacs lake, metro politico's don't have a clue, don't care, and won't care. The liberal block doesn't care, won't ever care, nor would they go in their pocket to help.

Sorry for the rant, but it's the tip of a huge iceberg. Mille Lacs is the canary in the coal mine, more is on the way, take it to the bank.   

 

I agree...recruiting young people is the key but keep in mind these millennials tend to be more on the "no limit"  catch and release only side of the argument and you couple that with the fact that our DNR is recruiting these same millennials to work for them....so it makes it harder to sway both sides of the same fence.  IMO they should cut all limits of all species in half state-wide immediately, including all boundary lakes/rivers like LOW and see what the fish population looks like in 10 yrs...this includes keeping any local slot limits in place plus opening Mille Lacs back up to a reasonable keep. Half a limit is plenty to keep for those of us who enjoy a fish fry now and then IMO.

[ozzie]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:46 PM, monstermoose78 said:

Let’s get them 22-27 inch fish out of the lake

 

yeah lets get those prime breeders out of the lake!!!    some of the stuff said on the Mille Lacs situation is just unbelievable...

[monstermoose78]

No the most productive females are 18-22 inches. 

[gim]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 3:34 PM, bbfenatic said:

recruiting young people is the key but keep in mind these millennials tend to be more on the "no limit"  catch and release only

 

Totally true.  The younger generation is far more interested in protecting the resource and the older generation is far more interested in meat hunting.  Its definitely a generational gap thing.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

12 hours ago, ozzie said:

 

yeah lets get those prime breeders out of the lake!!!    some of the stuff said on the Mille Lacs situation is just unbelievable...

 

 

LMAO 17-22 slots are because of those females being the prime breeding stock.....22-27in fish are not the prime......sure they can still reproduce, but not has effecently for the resource vs the 17-22in fish.

 

12 hours ago, ozzie said:

 

yeah lets get those prime breeders out of the lake!!!    some of the stuff said on the Mille Lacs situation is just unbelievable...

 

 

LMAO 17-22 slots are because of those females being the prime breeding stock.....22-27in fish are not the prime......sure they can still reproduce, but not has effecently for the resource vs the 17-22in fish.

 

[Agronomist_at_IA]

11 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Totally true.  The younger generation is far more interested in protecting the resource and the older generation is far more interested in meat hunting.  Its definitely a generational gap thing.

 

I would disagree with this  statement. 

 

Obviously the older generation  protected and safeguarded the resources otherwise they wouldn't be here. In fact the older generation created many of the resources we have. When you have a renewable resource, a community should take full advantage and use the resouce to the FULL advantage possible. With fish that means harvesting them.

 

Now, I'm not talking rape and pillage the resouce. I'm talking responsible harvest. 

[DonkeyHodey]

"Obviously the older generation protected and safeguarded the resources..."

This isn't exactly obvious. 

Historically, "protected and safeguarded" means exploiting the resource to the point of elimination, crying to the state/DNR/government to externally replenish it and then complaining/crying more when it isn't done the way you'd like? (or isn't "as good" as it used to be to allow more exploitation)  Oh, and it's also helpful to find a scapegoat to deflect/blame as well--carp, "invasives", other races or "generations", etc...   It would seem that's how the Walleye has been protected and I don't think it's anything to brag about.

"...otherwise they wouldn't be here"

Just because a species can hang on despite exhaustive and devastating pressure does not mean the exploiters can claim any conservational or moral superiority...  

 

This isn't anything unique though:  Lake trout in the great lakes, cod in the North Atlantic, trout in pretty much every stream would also be nodding in agreement... (as would numerous other non-fish natural resources--turkeys (they were extinct in MN until reintroduction in the latter 1900's...), swans (also locally extinct--reintroduced), canadian geese (nearly completely extinct), prairie chickens, bison, etc...)  I can give numerous other examples if you'd like, but I'd rather go passenger pigeon watching...

(...For the record, I don't think the "younger generation" is any less greedy/selfish--But they sure think they're different/better...)

 

Agronomist:  You're sorta talking out of both sides of your mouth--"FULL advantage possible" and "responsible harvest"?  "Full advantage" is never responsible...  But maybe this time will be different, right?...

[Borch]

Oh boy....

 

Older generation.... is this...

 

Younger generation is this......

 

Can we get a broader brush to paint this portrait?  Thought I was in the political forum at first.

 

If we want to argue slots that's one thing but let's try to keep this on topic without throwing each other under the bus to try to drive our point home. 

 

I'm one of those old guys.  I've released far more fish than I've ever run a knife through but do enjoy eating fish.  By fish I mean those that are fresh and not from a store or restaurant.   Those are icky more often than not.  

 

The state of Mille Lacs is a personal one for many of us older guys.  I've fished this lake for more years than many of the younger folks have been alive.  It's hard to even talk about it without getting upset since I rarely fish it anymore due to all the politics based management of the lake.  Up until the last 15+ years it was managed based on biology and was a fantastic fishery.  Plenty of big fish, small fish and plenty in between.  Lots of places to fish without all the drama.  I enjoy fishing a lot more than arguing about it.

 

Enjoy your time on the ice or water.  The choice to keep or release a fish is yours unless the rules state you need to release it on the waters you fish.  Then again, the waters you choose to fish is your choice as well.  Just try to remember that.

[ozzie]

ok maybe not per say the "prime breeder" but if your lake is not possessing a number of 18"-22" fish to support your lake system, then I would think, you need a good population of 22"-26" fish to lay eggs, even though the survival rate is lower, and the bigger eyes will at times prey on young walleye if there is a low forage base.  If you have been to a stripping station it always seems the females they get eggs from are mostly over 22".  Maybe they ripen faster and that is the reason, I don't know, but that has been my observation, and I would think if the 18-22" eyes produce "Better" eggs then they would want to use them more.  The main point, I guess I wanted to make, was that Mille Lacs is such an ecological conundrum, it appears, and then to have many different hands in the bowl making decisions on it, I often laugh at all the people that think THEY have the answers, and for the most part are pulling their opinion out of their arse!  I.E. go back to the start of this thread...opinion shot down by science and yet still believes in opinion!  Just my take...

 

*(disclaimer: means nothing as it is not backed by science and the information given was my uneducated thoughts...kinda contradicting ehh )*

 

Get out and enjoy what we have, while we have it, and are around to use it!  Unless you are getting into politics, or are really rich and have a lot of pull with powerful people, you ain't changing much on the big ol'pond!!  (another opinion that means nothing) 

 

I am not even sure why I open these threads and then feel the need to comment?  I guess this is what keep conversation going and a reason to come back and look at the forums...

 

Good Luck and Enjoy the season!

[Flash]

Ozzie,

Well said.  This world we live on is over millions of years old.  I don't think much that I do is going to have much impact on the little blup of hopefully around 80 years I get to enjoy it.  Thus, enjoy what you have and let the rest worry about it.  Go Hunting and Fishing and enjoy it.

Flash

"Set the Hook"

 

[tfin]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:16 AM, gimruis said:

 

Ok, so all the biologists, scientists, and compiled data is wrong and you're right.  Lets rape and pillage the lake until there's absolutely nothing left.  Great idea tfin.  In fact, maybe when the walleyes are all gone we should harvest all the muskies, smallmouth bass, and pike in the lake too.  And then blame the DNR for it.  Go fly a kite

I didn't say that all the data is wrong.  I didn't say that we should fish the lake out.  I said that the lake should be managed for food not for sport.  You're advanced degree didn't help you with reading for comprehension.  

 

If you don't think it was mismanaged let me ask you two simple questions.  First question.  Was it managed?  Second question.  Did that management keep the lake population of walleye to a satisfactory level?  I will say that people may have taken too many fish but if the DNR is going to take tax money and use it to set limits than they should be accountable for doing a good job.  People don't all know the lake.  They come from all over and if the regulations say you can take 4 fish under 17 then they probably will.  If you do this for or something similar for 5 straight years., you're probably going to end up with fewer small fish and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that why the lake got shut down?  I'm not calling for heads to role because the lake has it's many issues.  I'm just trying to keep it from happening again.

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:42 PM, gimruis said:

Totally true.  The younger generation is far more interested in protecting the resource and the older generation is far more interested in meat hunting.  Its definitely a generational gap thing.

Probably because they can hardly wipe their own butt much less clean a fish.  

[leech~~]

24 minutes ago, tfin said:

 I said that the lake should be managed for food not for sport. 

 

Well it is managed for food.  Sorta?    

[tfin]

Yeah, there's nothing pretty about any of that.  The lake is what it is with the abuse it takes.  I don't blame the DNR for shutting it down, the year classes that I've seen while out on the ice have been well represented and It seems to be stronger than I've seen since 2007.   I want to see it opened back up but with different long term management.  Whether it's 1 over and 1 under limits or changing the size of harvest fish as long as they don't repeat the same long term program that got us here.  I'd be happy with 1 over 22 in the summer and 1 under 18 over 15 in the winter if that would keep the lake in good health.

 

I suppose there are differing combinations of three types of fisher people out there.  Those that want the challenge, those that want the fight, and those that want the food.  I couldn't care less about the fight.  I like the challenge of finding the fish and to be able to eat my catch once in a while.  If that means I have to freeze a fish until I catch enough to feed the family then so be it.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

On October 25, 2018 at 9:20 AM, DonkeyHodey said:

"Obviously the older generation protected and safeguarded the resources..."

This isn't exactly obvious. 

Historically, "protected and safeguarded" means exploiting the resource to the point of elimination, crying to the state/DNR/government to externally replenish it and then complaining/crying more when it isn't done the way you'd like? (or isn't "as good" as it used to be to allow more exploitation)  Oh, and it's also helpful to find a scapegoat to deflect/blame as well--carp, "invasives", other races or "generations", etc...   It would seem that's how the Walleye has been protected and I don't think it's anything to brag about.

"...otherwise they wouldn't be here"

Just because a species can hang on despite exhaustive and devastating pressure does not mean the exploiters can claim any conservational or moral superiority...  

 

This isn't anything unique though:  Lake trout in the great lakes, cod in the North Atlantic, trout in pretty much every stream would also be nodding in agreement... (as would numerous other non-fish natural resources--turkeys (they were extinct in MN until reintroduction in the latter 1900's...), swans (also locally extinct--reintroduced), canadian geese (nearly completely extinct), prairie chickens, bison, etc...)  I can give numerous other examples if you'd like, but I'd rather go passenger pigeon watching...

(...For the record, I don't think the "younger generation" is any less greedy/selfish--But they sure think they're different/better...)

 

Agronomist:  You're sorta talking out of both sides of your mouth--"FULL advantage possible" and "responsible harvest"?  "Full advantage" is never responsible...  But maybe this time will be different, right?...

 

 

Wow people read and comprehend only what they want.

 

Using a resouce to its full advantage possible would be harvesting fish responsible, if you can understand something so simple you need someone to help you. 

 

Not ot giving the older generation credit for protecting and managing our resources is just ignorant. However, with your train of thought they must have wiped out the dinosaurs or are somehow responsible.