Nets & spears

[CigarGuy]

As of yesterday afternoon, 5 matching Ford trucks, 2 boats and a utility trailer were sitting in the parking lot at the motel in Cook.  They were there Thursday afternoon when I got up here.  You can read the article in the Timberjay.  Hopefully, the lack of walleyes will send them packing!

[CigarGuy]

Drove by the motel on the way home this afternoon and didn't see the trucks at the motel!  Hopefully, netting continued to be poor and they went home.  When netting during the spawn is bad, it just goes to show the west end needs more time to recover.

[SkunkedAgain]

Well what are the water temps in the lake and where is Peterson's Landing? IDK - is that an area where you are going to find walleye during or immediately post spawn? I assume that this year it's just a combination of bad timing and location.

The Fond Du Lac caught 13 walleye totaling 38 pounds, an average of 2.92lbs per walleye. Based on that small sample, they are eligible to net about 850 walleye. These numbers don't really concern me, and are their right to take more than ours. There's nothing much that anyone can do except hope that they (or everyone at fishing opener) has a bad catch so that the walleye population continues to grow.

How many walleye do you think will be caught via modern fishing techniques over opener? More or less than 850 walleye?

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Skunked,

They are allowed to take 1/2 of Vermilion's  safe allowable harvest or 32,500 pounds!

Not just 850 walleyes! If that was the case no one would say a thing!

They only declared the 2,500 pound amount for this year, which they did not achieve.

Also every fish that they kept are fish that we have to return to the water to spawn next year.

Cliff

[SkunkedAgain]

Agreed, they only planned to take roughly 850 walleye at the most this year. It's not many in the grand scheme of things.

Edited May 3, 2016 by SkunkedAgain

[delcecchi]

17 hours ago, Cliff Wagenbach said:

Also every fish that they kept are fish that we have to return to the water to spawn next year.

Cliff

That is a little over the top, Cliff.  You could say the same about everyone who harvests walleye on the lake.  Harvest is harvest whether by net or hook.   In fact I could say that the reason I couldn't keep walleye on the west end was because of you guys on the east end kept a bunch so the west end had to release what we could catch. 

[VermilionGold]

I believe he is referring to the fact that many of the fish being kept via net would fall into the slot for hook and line anglers, therefore needing to be released.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Del,

I was referring to the fact that almost ALL of the fish netted are dead and none of them that are in our slot size will be released to maintain a spawning age size.

I agree that harvest is harvest.

The rest of your statement makes no sense to me!???

Cliff

[Sculpin]

They'll find their fish, be assured. You must also bear in mind they can spear as well as net. And the ratio of big fish taken by spear, is far greater that the gill nets pull. It's just a matter of time, and a learning curve.

Very few nets went into Mille Lacs this year, but they speared over 6,000 lbs...That would equate to almost 10% of the overall Vermillion allowable harvest, scary.. 

[delcecchi]

The main purpose of the slot is to limit the harvest to a safe level.  The part about spawners is pretty much window dressing.  Ask the guys at the DNR in tower.  I think Duane retired but there must be someone.  

So, if you guys in the east keep a lot of fish, it affects the rules that apply to the west as well.  And the rules have made us release most fish, due to the population differences. 

That's what I was trying to say.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

The total net take of walleyes on the West end was 1,757.8 pounds this spring.

Not sure what the Pike, Musky, etc. numbers were.

Del,

There is a chance that the harvest of smaller walleyes in years past on the West end may have caught up with the spawning survival rate and that is the reason there are fewer "keeper" sized walleyes there also. 

I know,that is as far fetched as many of the other guesses that have been made so far.

Cliff

[delcecchi]

The problem on the west has been poor survival of fry during the first year, for reasons unknown.  I couldn't see why fish wouldn't swim to the other end of the lake but they don't.  You guys must be paying them.

 

[leech~~]

10 hours ago, Cliff Wagenbach said:

The total net take of walleyes on the West end was 1,757.8 pounds this spring.

Not sure what the Pike, Musky, etc. numbers were.

Del,

There is a chance that the harvest of smaller walleyes in years past on the West end may have caught up with the spawning survival rate and that is the reason there are fewer "keeper" sized walleyes there also.

I know,that is as far fetched as many of the other guesses that have been made so far.

Cliff

Well, it could be clearer water, or Zebra's, or Rusty's, or the big Walleye eating the fry, or the hook and line slot release, or the Cormorants or the wrong slot size, or high fishing pressure, or all the new fishing technology, or warmer water from Global warming!  

[SkunkedAgain]

After a long day of digging and general cabin work on Friday, I sat down to read the latest newsletter from the Sportsman's Club of Lake Vermilion. It was interesting to see them refer to a year (I can't remember when) in the past 5-10 years when anglers went 'well over' the safe harvest threshold for walleye. We can bark all that we want about the tribe netting, but there are even less controls over what we all do. We aren't watched or tracked, just a select few asked for an honest summary.

Edited May 9, 2016 by SkunkedAgain

[CigarGuy]

6 hours ago, SkunkedAgain said:

After a long day of digging and general cabin work on Friday, I sat down to read the latest newsletter from the Sportsman's Club of Lake Vermilion. It was interesting to see them refer to a year (I can't remember when) in the past 5-10 years when anglers went 'well over' the safe harvest threshold for walleye. We can bark all that we want about the tribe netting, but there are even less controls over what we all do. We aren't watched or tracked, just a select few asked for an honest summary.

I've been holding off on getting into a debate about netting because it's the only time I get banned on this site.  With that being said, take a look at the total financial impact to the area from property owners, tourists(thousands) filling the resorts, bars, renting boats, bait, shopping locally, etc.,  vs  a few dozen netters taking up to 1/2 of the allowable harvest of prime spawning walleyes and spending very little in the area.  They come from out of state/town and don't give a damn about the local area.  I could go on and on about two sets of rules, dnr turning an eye on enforcement, taking spawning fishing out of the system-our season is closed at this time because walleyes are susceptible to over harvest.   Does this sound right? They ruin one lake and move on to the next! It's just blows my mind that anyone who loves hunting/fishing isn't totally appalled by this and can support or justify them doing it! 

[delcecchi]

You can be appalled in one hand and **** in the other and see which one gets filled first... 

The problem is that the state has not much to say about it.  It is between the feds and the bands.  So unless you can convince the next president to abrogate the rights to take fish and game in the treaty that are "at the pleasure of the president", we have no influence. 

Our only hope is due to the fact that Vermilion is home to the Nett Lake band, and they may have some say over what happens in their back yard.  But kay sera sera and all that. 

it's like getting wound up over wasteful stupid government spending or the antics of IRRRB.  It will give you High Blood Pressure and change nothing. 

I pretty much switched to bass and northern anyway since walleye have been pretty tough for me over the last decade or so on the west end. 

[OhioVike]

There are a lot of salient points here but we need to stay away from the shoulda, woulda, coulda and try to focus on what the right answer for Vermilion. The lake is very important to us for a variety of reasons and it is likely to be next to face the challenges that Leech and Mille Lacs have already faced.  This group should try to build a consensus view to advice fish management to anticipate the rising harvest numbers. It certainly appears they open to comments. One loud voice can set the proper direction for the lake in these challenging circumstances.  (One thing is for certain, competing agendas in Mille Lacs only complicated matters)

[Cliff Wagenbach]

OhioVike,

The DNR formed a Vermilion Lake Management Board last winter.

This board consists of a wide variety of interested citizens and local businesses.

I am not sure how much influence this board may have on future decisions for the management of Vermilion but it is at least a start!

Hopefully this is not just a token gesture to shut up the objections to lake management that have popped up the past couple of years.

I am sure that their suggestions will have no effect on what will or will not happen with netting!

Cliff

[SkunkedAgain]

Cigar - I guess that there are two main launching points for this discussion, and it all starts with how you view the acquisitions of these lands. From a non-historical point of view, you made some valid points. Although the tribal members who come to net are tourists as well. I'd also take issue with the unsubstantiated view that the tribes don't give a damn about the area. You could say the same about meat hunting tourists, just here to catch loads of walleye and then leave. What's the difference?

From a historical point of view, one can factor in how these lands were acquired by white folks. I understand that some people don't want to drag on past indiscretions forever, yet, these were all native lands that we took plain and simple. With that fact in mind, it doesn't bother me that the tribes are allowed to take fish from these lakes.

I love the outdoors and fishing, and the only thing that truly appalls me is reading about the history of how the native people were treated, how their lands were acquired, what they got (or really didn't get) in exchange, and the minor consolation allowed for them to hunt and fish on their former lands at the pleasure of The Great Father. Their fishing rights and non-tax status are about the only good thing the majority of settlers ever gave to the native people. The reservations were pitiful places and many remain as such today.

I consider myself pretty privileged to have the opportunity to own land on Vermilion and to fish and enjoy its waters. It doesn't bother me to share it at all.

[delcecchi]

And besides, getting your shorts in a wad over it is like beating your head against the wall.   Accomplishes nothing, doesn't affect the wall much, and feels good when you stop. 

[CigarGuy]

7 hours ago, SkunkedAgain said:

Cigar - I guess that there are two main launching points for this discussion, and it all starts with how you view the acquisitions of these lands. From a non-historical point of view, you made some valid points. Although the tribal members who come to net are tourists as well. I'd also take issue with the unsubstantiated view that the tribes don't give a damn about the area. You could say the same about meat hunting tourists, just here to catch loads of walleye and then leave. What's the difference?

I guess your idea of a tourist and mine are not even in the same ballpark!  My tourists contribute to the local economy, the harvest is spread out over thousands of people, spending money supporting the region.  Yours, spend very little money, use equipment and maybe lodging paid for by tax payers,  At most, only a hand full of netters taking up to 1/2 of the allowable harvest of prime spawning fish out of the system.  Take a look at the end result-reduced limits, resorts and local businesses closing, property values decreasing.  Do you think the tribes that come from out of state really care about what happens to Mille Lacs?  If so, why was it netted until the walleye season had to be changed to c/r?
 

7 hours ago, SkunkedAgain said:

From a historical point of view, one can factor in how these lands were acquired by white folks. I understand that some people don't want to drag on past indiscretions forever, yet, these were all native lands that we took plain and simple. With that fact in mind, it doesn't bother me that the tribes are allowed to take fish from these lakes.

I love the outdoors and fishing, and the only thing that truly appalls me is reading about the history of how the native people were treated, how their lands were acquired, what they got (or really didn't get) in exchange, and the minor consolation allowed for them to hunt and fish on their former lands at the pleasure of The Great Father. Their fishing rights and non-tax status are about the only good thing the majority of settlers ever gave to the native people. The reservations were pitiful places and many remain as such today.

Did a quick "google search" of the Lakota tribe.  I just briefly went over it, but there was fighting between different tribes-pushing them out of Minnesota in the Dakota's.  It wasn't just "white folks"!  We can't right all the wrongs in history-how long do "we" have to answer for the actions of the past?  Not a single person alive today have anything to do with it!  Sound to me like a case of "white guilt"! 

I consider myself pretty privileged to have the opportunity to own land on Vermilion and to fish and enjoy its waters. It doesn't bother me to share it at all.

I consider myself blessed to own property on Vermilion,  I also work my tail off to be able to afford it.  That's all for me on the subject.  Time to get onboard the opener train!

[SkunkedAgain]

As Del said, let's stop beating our heads for a while....good advice.