Party Hunting

[hockeybc69]

Give people an inch and they take a mile.

Get rid of it. Shoot your deer and be happy with it.

What kind of story is, "It was a great weekend. I didnt see a deer, but my buddy shot a deer for me."

[PurpleFloyd]

I'm sure lots of youth hunters are going to tell "Uncle Bob".."heck no...you're not shooting a deer for me"

I think the reason party hunting/crosstagging is a such a big debate point is that more deer end up getting harvested. When the herd is in great shape, its not such a big issue...when the herd isn't in great shape...taking deer that may have survived another year may be detrimental to hunting in successive years.

We are basically the opposite. Lots of youth hunting with us and I know personally I would rather have my son shoot his deer and mine as well and generally put him in a spot to do so. His grandfather,who doesn't get around as well as he used to also would rather give his grand son the opportunity to harvest his deer as he gets more satisfaction from that than from taking one himself. The rest of our group is the same way in that they would rather see their kids harvest deer than themselves. I imagine there are some solo hunters who have no family or friends to hunt with that have difficulty with understanding that it doesn't always have to be the "Me" or the "I" and there is nothing that can be done to fix that, but there are valid reasons to party hunt and cross tag depending on the terrain and situation and as long as those who are in the group are OK with it, who has the right to tell them they can't? as long as they only take as many deer as there are hunters and as long as they are all there participating in the hunt.

[PurpleFloyd]

Give people an inch and they take a mile.

Get rid of it. Shoot your deer and be happy with it.

What kind of story is, "It was a great weekend. I didnt see a deer, but my buddy shot a deer for me."

As long as he doesn't care what business is it of yours how he feels?

How about "I am at the end of my hunting career and don't get around so well any more but I enjoy getting out with the family and it gives me more satisfaction to see my grandson harvest my deer for me"? Real bad guy there.

[Jameson]

Compared to what?

...What kind of story is, "It was a great weekend. I didnt see a deer, but my buddy shot a deer for me."

and the other guy saying, "It's too bad my buddy didn't see a deer, but at least I was able to fill his tag for him so he got some venison."

Compared to?

"It was a crappy weekend. I didn't see a deer and will have to hope that my buddy will share some of the venison he got from the deer he shot."

and

"I am just going to go hunt alone next year if I have to share my venison with anyone again. Not hardly worth the trip for half a deer."

....

We control does shot through a lottery so that we don't shoot too many. Bucks don't matter in this state, try to shoot them all every fall, go for it. No 'scientific' reason to ban cross-tagging. Banning cross-tagging would be purely a social move, and I thought that is what we don't want.

[Jameson]

Help me understand. People are against party hunting/cross tagging because of the fellas out there that do it illegally?

Some folks, yep. Other folks are just flat out against legal party hunting and are using the illegal cross tagging as a way to rally more folks against party hunting. Sort of like people who are against guns and use murderers as a way to influence others to be against guns.

[smsmith]

We control does shot through a lottery so that we don't shoot too many. Bucks don't matter in this state, try to shoot them all every fall, go for it. No 'scientific' reason to ban cross-tagging. Banning cross-tagging would be purely a social move, and I thought that is what we don't want.

We do?

[TattooedHunter]

Get rid of telephone and internet registration of deer, make the tag holder show up to a registration station with the deer.

[nonteepical]

They got to much money invested into electronic tag/registration they'll never get rid of it, but I agree with you a lot of cheating/unregistered deer with current system.

[CaptainMusky]

I'm not a huge fan of party hunting but how in the world would they realistically enforce this?

[Jameson]

We do?

Yes. I worded it horribly, but we have an antlerless lottery to prevent shooting too many does. See regulation changes after the last closed deer season in MN if you only have lived here for a couple years and don't know the history very well.

[laker1]

I think like a lot of things,it is O'kay but too much of a good thing is bad.

I have no time for parties like the size of 18 people and they maybe drive or even otherwise,nobody has to shoot 6 deer or more.

It is fine if you party hunt just to stay in the woods with your group or help a buddy get a deer for the winter. Also maybe if you party hunt some groups say if you get your deer you can only shoot that very big buck you probably will never see. It still lets you be in the woods and partake with family and friends.

I remember some parties the young kids would never get a chance to shoot a deer,they would make them drive and they would put the same hunter on post because he was the best shot or leader of the party.

Actually deer hunting most years 50-60% of hunters will have to get skunked or we are over harvesting.

In some areas I know back in 1972 just coming off a closed season certain groups of large size would drive these areas and no deer had a chance. Thus the deer recovery was delayed in some areas.

[candiru]

Get rid of telephone and internet registration of deer, make the tag holder show up to a registration station with the deer.

The only thing that would accomplish is to create an inconvenience for honest people. The people that are cheating now were cheating then. All the people were doing at the registration station was punching data into terminals. Nobody cared whether you had your deer there, or if you looked like someone that would go deer hunting.

The only way to maybe put a damper on it would be to have fewer registration stations staffed by people with at least a little training on what to look for. They would also have to care enough to look at the deer. You would also have to pay them in some way. I don't just don't see where people would want to spend the money and put up with the extra hassle to maybe stop a few from abusing party hunting.

[shortfatguy]

I can see where there are issues with the cross tagging. One thing I would like to see is proxy hunting like they allow in alaska. Where you can legally hunt under someone elses tag if they are unable to do so them selves for legitimate reasons. Many older folks grew up on venison and really enjoy eating it but can not hunt anymore. Would be nice if a family member or friend could take a deer for them.

[hockeybc69]

Then Uncle Bob who has never hunted before miraculously buys his first tag at 74 years old.....

Too many holes. You shoot it, you tag it. Then share in your bounty with Uncle Bob.

Makes enforcement much easier. CO approaches a group, inspects licenses or tagged deer. Pretty easy for them to hone in on the ones playing games.

I know people that drive would argue party hunting is just fine. Well, if you shot your deer on drive number 1, then get in the line with the pushers for the next 4 drives until all your tags are filled if necessary. Put the guys on the shooting lines that have available tags.

[mntatonka]

Then Uncle Bob who has never hunted before miraculously buys his first tag at 74 years old.....

Too many holes. You shoot it, you tag it. Then share in your bounty with Uncle Bob.

Makes enforcement much easier. CO approaches a group, inspects licenses or tagged deer. Pretty easy for them to hone in on the ones playing games.

I know people that drive would argue party hunting is just fine. Well, if you shot your deer on drive number 1, then get in the line with the pushers for the next 4 drives until all your tags are filled if necessary. Put the guys on the shooting lines that have available tags.

Clearly you haven't done many drives. Put a guy without a gun on the drive, and he'll be he one the deer run by every time. The guys next to him have to move closer to him to shoot the deer in his line, which leaves bigger gaps in the lines.

Seriously, what difference does time if I shoot 3 deer and 2 others in my group don't shoot any?

[PurpleFloyd]

I would bet illegal forms of cross tagging account for fewer additional deer harvested than the guys who buy multiple licenses so they can whack a doe with the rifle and then sit back with their bow for 3 months and hand pick the buck they want to fill freezer 2 and their wall space with.

[Farmsfulltime]

Floyd,, Maybe even the same groups that want to change the face of deer hunting in Minnesota , For no reason can I see why a minority of hunters wants to control thru legislation and regulation their fellow hunters in this sport. Leave the wildlife enforcement to wildlife enforcement and let every hunter chose how he wants to enjoy the sport. A large amount of this I think has came to the forefront since cameras have hit all the woods as now the antler worshipers can see that certain deer are harvested effectively during gun season and now want to change harvest to save (their ) deer, and the only way is to restrict what and how their fellow hunters hunt

[icehole10]

We are basically the opposite. Lots of youth hunting with us and I know personally I would rather have my son shoot his deer and mine as well and generally put him in a spot to do so.

Couldn't agree more, I have shot plenty of deer in my life. The last 5-6 years its about my kids. I have let deer walk past me knowing/hoping they are going to walk past one of my kids. honestly, I really would care less if I ever shoot another deer again, as long as my wife and kids are hunting with me. I see nothing wrong with legal party hunting, but will also agree that there are a lot of people who take advantage of the situation, and the only way to slow it down would be more help on the enforcement end.

[certified jumbo]

Spot on Floyd and Icehole. I agree!

[Hoyt4]

I'm for party hunting grew up with it. I'm just for hunting nothing illegal. We never had no one tag a deer that was not there. No uncle Bob just buying a tag. Everyone was hunting together and tagged the deer. No one tagged a deer if they were not part of the hunt. If anything done illegal was done it would of been my last hunt and my dad would not of been part of it either. Now I have not party hunted in years but it's just another way of hunting. I'm not going to be against anyone that likes to hunt this way or chooses to just trophy hunt. Too many hunters go against eachother now a days and just makes it more of a battle with in us hunters.

[jerkbait]

Agree 100% with Hoyt. Just hunt and be happy!

[smallie_hawgin]

It seems to me this always goes along the lines of "values" or the "acceptance scale" or even a "continuum". In other words there is a large range of values we as outdoors folks have. Some find that deer hunting is purely a way to put meat on the table, while others would like the experience to be more than a kill per se'. The enforcement piece is why many other states have not used party hunting.

Is it (not allowing cross tagging/party hunting) a more conservative way to manage the issue? Yes. It would be easier in the long run to do away with the ability to shoot other "party" members deer. It really does come down to how you value the experience, the critters and the time in the woods. Many in MN have grown up with the experience, yet if we go out to virtually any other state (MT, OH, CO, IA, MO, ND, IN, KS, SD, NE, NM, TX) for a hunt, it is perfectly acceptable to harvest YOUR deer or game. But, ONLY your deer or game. Yet we expect to be able to harvest others here in MN??

IMO The idea of one being able to harvest someone elses animal an outdated past time. It puts less value on the animal and more emphasis on the harvest alone. Sure there are always examples of charity etc... But then, as was mentioned earlier, take YOUR animal and share... After all, it is a privilege to hunt in the US, (in some states a right- legally) however, something that would not happen if we did not have the freedom or means to do so.

[picksbigwagon]

you can take Iowa out of that list, they allow party hunting, they allow cross tagging. I am heading there this weekend to hunt and I know for a fact deer drives, party hunting and cross tagging are allowed and accepted.

[smallie_hawgin]

you can take Iowa out of that list, they allow party hunting, they allow cross tagging. I am heading there this weekend to hunt and I know for a fact deer drives, party hunting and cross tagging are allowed and accepted.

Well for shotgun only... So you are right... Actual language below... I only hunt bow for the most part and it is not allowed in IA for that gear type. The part that says "issued to a hunter who is present in the party." Is particularly important.

"BAG & POSSESSION LIMIT

For Shotgun Season 1 and Shotgun Season

2 seasons, the daily bag and possession limit

is one deer for each unfilled transportation tag

issued to a hunter who is present in the party.

For all other deer seasons, the daily bag and

possession limit is one deer for each license

and transportation tag issued to the hunter for

that season.

The annual possession limit is one deer for

each license and transportation tag obtained by

the hunter for all seasons."

Thanks for bringing that up.

[Getanet]

I don't particularly care to compare MN's regulations with other states, or vice versa. Some states allow party hunting others don't. Some states allow baiting, others don't. Some states allow retrieval of game with dogs, others don't. Some states hunt during the rut, others don't. Some states allow multiple bucks tags and some allow unlimited doe tags, others don't. This list goes on and on.

I don't believe any particular state has the perfect combination of regulations to claim any sort of ethical high ground. Most are based as much on customs and traditions than on science/biology, and almost all have certain rules/regs that hunters in other states find odd, wrong or unethical.

[smallie_hawgin]

So,

I want to pose a question..... How many of the 130,000 deer harvested this year do you think were by the "rightful owner" of their tag? It seems rather odd to me that the harvest is as high as it is considering the stringent limits in place this year, doesn't it?

After talking with a few Conservation Officers, I found out that Lend/borrow citations are up and even considered "epidemic" in some areas....

Houston, I think we have a problem!

[Getanet]

The DNR expected the harvest to be "around" 120,000 due to a combination of a lower herd and tighter restrictions. Through the end of the firearms season we were at 127,000 registered. That doesn't seem odd to me - actually looks like a pretty good estimate by the DNR. It's entirely possible the herd numbers were a bit higher than everyone thought.

[O.T.C.]

Smallie Hawgin we are kinda at the point in our time where it is time to tag the deer you shoot. Don't even want to type this but the frustration with that regulation rears it's ugly head year after year for some of us. Bowhunter folded a dandy 12 pointer in October. Opening weekend of muzzy hunting I figured I had most of the area to myself. A nice buck was grunting after a doe or fawn maybe, they worked away from me but thought I'm ok, neighbor guy is tagged out, they could easily come back when "kaboom" down he went by the same guy, then I see his wife pull into their approach and the safety net per usual is "we were party hunting". Now he has two to head mount. Thing is I was always a believer that this didn't happen much, but as time has gone on I realize I'm the dummy in the minority, CO's can't police all this private land where people do the shooting,butchering,wrapping meat all on the same property, these people already have in place the way around the regulations, it's all about selfish greed for a guy like him, these are his deer I need to remember that.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Do you guys honestly think that making party hunting and cross tagging against the law is going to stop the people who are already in violation while it's legal?

[hockeybc69]

Getting rid of party hunting is going to keep the honest people honest.

CO's job will get a LOT easier in regards to investigating party hunting violations.

Another neat thing to note in a conversation I had with a CO last week is that people are getting duplicate tags.... They are tagging deer, get it home.... its all fine and legally tagged. But they are not registering the deer and then proceeding to get a duplicate license saying they lost the original and back afield they go.

Just talked to a guy last night that had a friend up near Mille Lacs this weekend and the guy shot 3 deer... I had to ask where the heck he got tags.... One person was hunting with him and the 3rd tag was one he bought under his granddaughters name....

Isnt that just peachy??