Party Hunting

[Farmsfulltime]

To make your proposed survey fair, the wording would have to be correct as some people confuse legal party hunting with unlawfull taking as was indicated by Buck above . True legal party hunting as the law is intended is different than filling tags for people not in the field , the later is poaching no different than spotlighting or baiting under current law. Was invited to the stakeholder meetings several months ago and went last time about 10 years ago now and will not attend this time around as I have seen how the process works and also believe the outcome is predetermined as I have said . Heres what will happen they will listen to everyone and go thru the process and the facts that come out of the meetings will be real , real close to the facts they use now Maybe push population up a little to quiet the squeaky wheels and then same old , same old let me assure you intensive will be back within 5 years and managed before that in zone 2 . zone 1 who knows weather and everything else

[smsmith]

You may be right Todd, but what it would do is eliminate the "gray area" that CO's spend a lot of time figuring out. I think illegal tagging/tag sharing/whatever is either number 1 or 2 for CO's(baiting being the other biggie) time during deer season. Digging through all the "he said, she said" dump takes a lot of their time. If its illegal...its illegal. No investigating if the stories being told are accurate or not. Wrong tag on a deer...wrong tag on a deer...ticket..have a good day.

[smsmith]

To make your proposed survey fair, the wording would have to be correct as some people confuse legal party hunting with unlawfull taking as was indicated by Buck above . True legal party hunting as the law is intended is different than filling tags for people not in the field , the later is poaching no different than spotlighting or baiting under current law. Was invited to the stakeholder meetings several months ago and went last time about 10 years ago now and will not attend this time around as I have seen how the process works and also believe the outcome is predetermined as I have said . Heres what will happen they will listen to everyone and go thru the process and the facts that come out of the meetings will be real , real close to the facts they use now Maybe push population up a little to quiet the squeaky wheels and then same old , same old let me assure you intensive will be back within 5 years and managed before that in zone 2 . zone 1 who knows weather and everything else

Amazingly enough...I pretty much agree with everything you typed there Fft.

I don't want an incorrectly worded survey either. Do it the right way, state the facts...let the chips fall where they may. That said, any such survey shouldn't be "leading" in the wording either way.

And yep...the outcomes are pre-determined...and yep..Managed will indeed be back sooner rather than later. I'm not 100% sure on Intensive though. I can see Intensive taking a back seat for a good number of years in most of central and northern MN...unless bTB or CWD show up anyway.

[Farmsfulltime]

Don't know who or who didn't apply for the stakeholder duty , but I will say this they know who they are picking before the meetings and also know how the cards will lay before the meeting is held .

Don't think the party hunting survey will get any traction but go for it who knows , even if the public voted it in still wouldn't become law , opinion of coarse

[picksbigwagon]

Just curious, which neighboring states don't allow cross tagging or party hunting?

[smsmith]

Don't know who or who didn't apply for the stakeholder duty , but I will say this they know who they are picking before the meetings and also know how the cards will lay before the meeting is held .

They certainly always have known in the past who was and was not going to be on the teams. I've heard some "rumblings" that may not be the case this time around. The DNR is well aware that the process is being watched closely by the public and our elected...they are going to make sure it is seen as legitimate...i.e. they can't hand pick who they want for the teams. Perhaps the representatives from the farming community, but not those from the hunting community.

On the survey...I have no personal intention of starting something like that. I just think it would be a good idea for the DNR to do, so that everybody on both sides of the issue could see if their opinion is in the majority or not. Pretty much like the APR discussion. Let's get all the players involved, get them all to approve the wording of such questions/surveys..and put some kind of end to these divisive issues.

[nonteepical]

For party hunting.

Against cross tagging.

[96trigger]

Much less cross tagging of bucks in SEMN. When someone shoots a nice buck, they like to tell their friends, show pictures, etc..etc... How easy do you think it is for someone to shoot a 2nd one and keep quiet about it, especially if it's big? All it takes is the wrong person to hear about it and a call to the tip line. This has happened a few times to people I know of. It is slowly working it's way out of the system.

[smsmith]

For party hunting.

Against cross tagging.

That made me chuckle

The two are pretty much one and the same in my mind. Can you explain your reasoning?

[hockeybc69]

I think he is simply saying hunting in a party is cool.

Just dont think you are using my tag on a deer that you shoot.

[loadmaster]

So if they eliminated party hunting how would this work. Son is 18 years old and myself hunting at same time. I shoot and have to use my tag. Son still has unfilled tag. I am done hunting. Would be boring sitting in the shack all day. Maybe I am missing something

[hockeybc69]

Nothing says you cant go out with your son and observe from another stand?

Heck, you might even see a buck of a lifetime and wish you hadnt tagged out already. Who knows.

If you shot something, you chose to shoot it. If you shot it, it should be a prize to you and you should be happy you were lucky enough to tag YOUR deer.

I have sat on stand and observed. Its really not that bad. Actually makes it quite a bit more casual of an experience.

What you are saying is that its important for you and your son to hunt, but in the same breath you are saying that if you shoot your deer, you want to be on stand and be able to shoot your sons deer for him as well? Think about that a little. Its really that important for you to hunt with your son, but in order for you to enjoy the hunt you need to get back on stand with your gun so you can potentially tag out for your kid. Kinda selfish if you ask me.

[loadmaster]

Fist never have and never will.

[mntatonka]

Nothing says you cant go out with your son and observe from another stand?

Heck, you might even see a buck of a lifetime and wish you hadnt tagged out already. Who knows.

If you shot something, you chose to shoot it. If you shot it, it should be a prize to you and you should be happy you were lucky enough to tag YOUR deer.

I have sat on stand and observed. Its really not that bad. Actually makes it quite a bit more casual of an experience.

What you are saying is that its important for you and your son to hunt, but in the same breath you are saying that if you shoot your deer, you want to be on stand and be able to shoot your sons deer for him as well? Think about that a little. Its really that important for you to hunt with your son, but in order for you to enjoy the hunt you need to get back on stand with your gun so you can potentially tag out for your kid. Kinda selfish if you ask me.

But no one is (or should be) forcing the kid to tag a deer he didn't shoot. That's hisnchoice and always should be. Party hunting is completely voluntary, so why is it such a big debate point with so many of you?

[smsmith]

But no one is (or should be) forcing the kid to tag a deer he didn't shoot. That's hisnchoice and always should be. Party hunting is completely voluntary, so why is it such a big debate point with so many of you?

I'm sure lots of youth hunters are going to tell "Uncle Bob".."heck no...you're not shooting a deer for me"

I think the reason party hunting/crosstagging is a such a big debate point is that more deer end up getting harvested. When the herd is in great shape, its not such a big issue...when the herd isn't in great shape...taking deer that may have survived another year may be detrimental to hunting in successive years.

In SE MN the ban on crosstagging/party hunting for bucks is obviously there to protect more bucks...correct?

[leechlake]

Party hunting is really a culture thing. Here is MN we've all grown up hunting with this being the law/norm

I also deer hunt in a state where people grew up with no such thing as party hunting for deer. The first few years out there we'd talk about this and they'd look at me like I was a whack job when I'd talk about party hunting, I'd also think their law was whacked because of the MN law. 4 of 5 of the guys shot bucks on opening day. They were done hunting period. It's good land so I won't say it's all that but all 4 bucks were big racks and 2 of those really big, probably bigger than most of us Minnesotans have ever shot hunting in our state.

I'm not judging anyone but I'd assume guys that hunt for big bucks prefer no party hunting and guys that are only "deer" hunting want party hunting.

[smsmith]

Party hunting is really a culture thing. Here is MN we've all grown up hunting with this being the law/norm

I also deer hunt in a state where people grew up with no such thing as party hunting for deer. The first few years out there we'd talk about this and they'd look at me like I was a whack job when I'd talk about party hunting, I'd also think their law was whacked because of the MN law. 4 of 5 of the guys shot bucks on opening day. They were done hunting period. It's good land so I won't say it's all that but all 4 bucks were big racks and 2 of those really big, probably bigger than most of us Minnesotans have ever shot hunting in our state.

I'm not judging anyone but I'd assume guys that hunt for big bucks prefer no party hunting and guys that are only "deer" hunting want party hunting.

Good post.

I'd only add that not everybody who chooses to NOT party hunt is a "big buck" hunter. Party hunting was/is legal in WI but neither my Dad or I chose to hunt that way. Dad was strictly a "deer" hunter...he wanted meat and didn't care if it had antlers or not (though he obviously got just as excited as the next guy when he'd get a chance at a nice buck). That said, he sure as heck wasn't going to let somebody else shoot a deer for him. He would much rather have eaten that tag than to be "insulted" by somebody else shooting a deer for him. Pretty much emasculating as he saw it.

[NWKR]

But no one is (or should be) forcing the kid to tag a deer he didn't shoot. That's hisnchoice and always should be. Party hunting is completely voluntary, so why is it such a big debate point with so many of you?

You have a lot of faith in hunters, or maybe I am just too cynical. But it all takes is a browsing of DNR weekly reports to see what many hunters are like. This year and almost every year in zone 1 there are three weeks of illegal baiting, trespass, hunting without blaze orange, road hunting, illegal taking of antlerless deer in bucks only, over limit in lottery areas and so on. Oh yeah, a couple reports of illegal party hunting. With the # of people that get caught doing these things I am sure there are many more that get away with it. Not sure that making party hunting (cross tagging) illegal would fix much but the DNR could make some effort of educating hunters.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/content/mn-dnr-weekly-report-nov-24-2014

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/content/mn-dnr-weekly-report-nov-17-2014

(Nov 10 was expired and you have to have a subscription)

That being said, I am also not against party hunting and have enjoyed doing it in past. This year I had a friend come bow hunting with me who filled his tag in a different part of the state. I said the only deer I would tag for him would be a decent buck. Probably at least a 110" buck, since I am a trophy hunter that wants higher deer populations and we restrict buck harvest on our hunting land...

To the guy that said he has to quit hunting if he fills a tag and his son is still out there, buy a camera. Get out and enjoy the woods and observe some wildlife. I have had just as much fun doing that as shooting a deer.

[Bureaucrat]

If you get the MN Outdoor News, spend five minutes reading the entire cuffs and collars section. It's quite an eye opener to see how common some of the deer hunting violations are. It's hard to wonder how much isn't caught by COs even after they get as much as they do.

[O.T.C.]

Unfortunately for many of us there's so much illegal activity taking place, with snow heard early and late late late shooting, found a gutpile behind my house from a poacher, what stinks is the rum river forest is 3 miles away and there's gazillion's of acres there, lots of road hunters this year as it was kinda chilly, it's just a sign of the times, people are lazier in general, and it's not all their fault, but foregoing our regulations is insane all to get deer and more deer and it's only 9 days or 16 out of the year big deal, found trespasser boot tracks, bet they didn't like the snow as much. Baiting is out of hand and read that cuff and collar and see how effective it is, it's very very effective maybe more so this year with a colder season. Party hunting is outdated, lots of groups quit driving deer and a few still do cornfields and such, still you should put shooters on drives who haven't connected yet, but party hunting done the right way is ok with me, it's just when you talk to others around you and you realize it's mainly done the wrong way it kinda eats at you a little.

[hockeybc69]

Is that you Muskybuck?

[Bear55]

Is that you Muskybuck?

If its not they have to be related.

[B. Amish]

i thought the same thing...

[O.T.C.]

Yes I'm back, but it should be better guys, I gave myself a 6 month timeout to re-group, unfortunately the problems are worsening and not getting better, I went up north to hunt and my wife stayed back and said there was a truck down our road at about 1AM sunday night, she was giving our daughter that nebulizer etc. said just high schoolers doing whatever until I followed the bloody drag trail to our gravel road a few days later, isn't that fun, I had a fun year up north seeing a few nice bucks that hopefully can shed em and find me next season. I truly enjoy seeing quality party hunting, drives, the stories that come from em, the many uncles I have that hunt together, that's the best part about deer hunting the anticipation of what's coming your way, the stories, the meat is always A+, just wish more people would not flex our rules or have to cheat at it to harvest the best animal we all share, that's all. My main trailcam really surprised me this fall, mercy. Where's the hugs guys lol. It sure was better when I didn't know what was happening around my areas. I had a guy trespass where I hunt on October 23rd at 9:00PM. He shut off my trailcamera can you believe that ! Shut it off, didn't steal it or get caught on it so he must have saw it during daylight. My friends at deer camp were all creeped out lol.

[nonteepical]

In Our hunting camp we hunt together, but we all tag our own deer, been that way since i started hunting 30+ years ago but we consider ourselves a hunting party and i'm sure we aren't the only party of hunters that hunt that way.

Pre APR it was first worded eliminate party hunting, and people were against it because they thought it meant no one could hunt together or share a hunting camp, then they came up with the no cross tagging term and that doubled their support when people understood what they really meant. so if their was a questionaire i'd leave out the party hunting and just go with no crosstagging to avoid confusion.

[BuckSutherland]

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/content/mn-dnr-weekly-report-nov-24-2014

To the guy that said he has to quit hunting if he fills a tag and his son is still out there, buy a camera. Get out and enjoy the woods and observe some wildlife. I have had just as much fun doing that as shooting a deer.

Thanks for posting this stuff. Those reports make me sick. Much more detailed than ODN.

Its time to make the penalties hurt much more than they currently do. I am guessing $1,000-$1,500 for the first offense would go a long ways. There was one deer shot on my property this year. Unfortunately it was shot by some mother F'n POS poacher in late Sept from the road. I called TIP and then the GW called me. Really nothing they could do about it. He didnt even come out and look and I cant say I blame him. All we were left with was a stinky gut pile, some drag marks, and the tire tracks in the ditch where they turned around. The area will be littered with cameras starting next spring.

[hockeybc69]

I spoke with a CO a couple days ago and asked how the experience was this fall with crosstagging violations because people are playing the system and having other people buy licenses for the party to fill.

Quote:

"Lend/Borrow a deer tag was my most cited offense this season and over the past few years it has become a very popular violation."

[Eric Wettschreck]

Help me understand. People are against party hunting/cross tagging because of the fellas out there that do it illegally?

[smnduck]

I think party hunting is great.

People against it just don't have any friends or family that want to be around them.

[PurpleFloyd]

Help me understand. People are against party hunting/cross tagging because of the fellas out there that do it illegally?

Pretty much. Kinda like people wanting to ban guns because they don't personally own one and some people commit crimes with them.