Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Maybe this site getting a little off topic and more irrational?

Laker, no worries. That's just Buck being Buck. He's an expert at everything including wildlife management, pro sports, how to destroy habitat with a plow, sending ground water to the gulf of mexico, and the environmental benefits of ethanol.

We're actually quite blessed to have him around to set us all straight.

I can only hope his paychecks are large enough to fairly compensate for the vast amount of 411 he lays on us all, and in a real polite manner to boot.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Correct,deer get hit hard when March comes around and their metabolism starts kicking up,thus needing more food which wasn't there and also the work to get thru the snow.

I wonder if the heavy June rains and follow up flooding does anything to the herd. I have no information that says yes or no, just curiosity on my part.

[harvey lee]

Eric, in North Dakota a few years back we had some very heavy rains and flooding. I was talking to the local CO that fall about the der herd issues and asked if he thought the harsh winter did all the damage. His thoughts were, the heavy rains and flooding did more harm to the young der than the severe winter as they got pushed out of the habitat they were living in and the wet weather also exposed the deer to pneumonia.

Just what the Co thought.

[Jameson]

...I wonder if the heavy June rains and follow up flooding does anything to the herd. I have no information that says yes or no, just curiosity on my part.

Yes, and it has been documented by Professional Wildlife Managers in MN. Get a young bambi all wet for several days and they get cold and die. Heavy rains in an area during fawning season can wipe out that year class.

[DonBo]

...or if they would have laid off handing out all the extra permits. If they would have said all these extra tags are too much so we are done with them people would have trusted them.

That's exactly what they've done. A bit late? Certainly, but they are doing it now, so why the beotching? What is it you want from them?

[Abndoc]

Yep, just because we can- doesnt mean we always should, everyone keeps judging the DNR, but never stopped pulling the trigger with all those added does permits in your pockets. I'm going out tomorrow with my 11 yr old, with the new changes over here, i didnt realize I still get a buck and a doe tag, so I bought an doe tag to make sure i can get my son a crack at something. I'm not going to fill all my tags just cause I can. Manage your own land and the DNR can do whatever they want.

[BuckSutherland]

...or if they would have laid off handing out all the extra permits. If they would have said all these extra tags are too much so we are done with them people would have trusted them.

[ANYFISH2]

That's exactly what they've done. A bit late? Certainly, but they are doing it now, so why the beotching? What is it you want from them?

Speaking for myself,

To not repeat the errors in regard to tags again.

Some accountability, and improved monitoring will go a long way.

[BuckSutherland]

Laker, no worries. That's just Buck being Buck. He's an expert at everything including wildlife management, pro sports, how to destroy habitat with a plow, sending ground water to the gulf of mexico, and the environmental benefits of ethanol.

We're actually quite blessed to have him around to set us all straight.

I can only hope his paychecks are large enough to fairly compensate for the vast amount of 411 he lays on us all, and in a real polite manner to boot.

Thanks for making it about me Eric. Its not, its about deer management, and the perception that the DNR has little fault in 290 down to 120 in ten years. Sorry I dont at all agree with your fairy-tale of how we got here.

[PurpleFloyd]

The thing is as the herd was trending down over the last year there wasn't a peep made by the same people who are currently outraged about that downward trend.

In fact, until last winter the very proponents of the current audit were preaching that hunters should pass on small bucks and put a doe in the freezer if a Hunter wanted meat.

I had plenty of debates where I pointed out that does drive the population and that taking a small buck was actually better for the population. Of course all I heard was things about balanced herds, 1:1 Buchanan to doe ratios and not shooting small bucks.

It wasn't until the thread that Getanet dredged where a few certain individuals came up with the scheme to push population increases as a path to APR that all of this audit and blame the DNR stuff came up. Try as they may to distance themselves from their very own words, they said what they said and you have to take them at their word .

[jay83196]

The average hunter doesn't know better....or probably care! That's why you have laws/rules so if people follow them reasonable quotas are met. If the trigger is pulled following the rules it shouldn't matter and hurt like it is, iF proper harvest rrgulations are in place! Sure winters would still effect it but years of intensive harvest did far more for many area's in the north. Many of us are paying the price for people taking too many deer FOLLOWING THE RULES!

[Eric Wettschreck]

No prob Buck. Anytime. You know you like the spotlight.

As far as your pixie dust fairy tale goes, at what point are you going to stop looking at the past and start looking forward? No one is giving the DNR a free pass on what happened years ago, but it's fair to say it does not all rest completely on the shoulders of the DNR.

So far we've had tough winters, tough springs, disease, trigger happy hunters, habitat loss, and predators come into play. DNR has zero control over the weather, no control over disease, very little control over trigger happy hunters, not much if any control over people razing down every tree they can to plant more corn, and once the legislature finally allowed it the DNR opened up a wolf season.

It was stated a couple posts ago to not make the same mistakes as were made in the past. Herd size is down, less antlerless tags issued. Herd size is down, DNR purposely reduced harvest numbers. Pretty much all they could do unless you have some type of fairy tale solution you'd like to offer that would increase herd size this year.

[Abndoc]

Many of us are paying the price for people taking too many deer FOLLOWING THE RULES!

Like I said just cause we can, doesnt me we should. I'm forunate enough to have a piece of property that i have had access to for 7 years. Its 220 acres. I have a great relationship with land owner and basically have total control over it. Just because I'm allowed to shoot as many does as possible with the tags handed out-following the rules, doesnt mean I'm going to. We as people including the DNR are not perfect, but to keep saying we are just following the rules and blame the DNR for it all is ridculious. If i go out and shoot a buck with my bow, one with the gun and my kid shoot one with a gun, along with endless doe permits what would the land look like next year. Stop blaming and start helping control it. Who really needs 4-5 deer in their freezer anyways. How much do you end up givng away or throwing out every year.

[Getanet]

Guys, someone mentioned Red Lake a few posts back. The answer is staring us right in the face...we need to start stocking deer!

Easy peazy, why didn't I think of this sooner!

[hockeybc69]

Damm..... right under our noses and nobody brought it up.

Trap out of high density areas like we did with turkeys. Brilliant!

[BuckSutherland]

As far as your pixie dust fairy tale goes, at what point are you going to stop looking at the past and start looking forward? No one is giving the DNR a free pass on what happened years ago, but it's fair to say it does not all rest completely on the shoulders of the DNR.

So far we've had tough winters, tough springs, disease, trigger happy hunters, habitat loss, and predators come into play. DNR has zero control over the weather, no control over disease, very little control over trigger happy hunters, not much if any control over people razing down every tree they can to plant more corn, and once the legislature finally allowed it the DNR opened up a wolf season.

There are lots more things they could have done THIS year! I see your blaming corn again. I am sure those of us in the Northeastern quarter of the state wouldnt blame corn at all for the lack off sightings. Also, I think you and I both know that the large majority of hunters will only shoot what the tags allow. The DNR in 100% control of them tags. 100% in control of the wolves. 100% in control of the bears. 0% in control of the weather, but I am sure a quick drive around some of the winter yards last winter would have shed some light onto how bad it was. I remember seeing my area and thinking, "there is no way they will allow any doe permits here next year." But they did, and for everything around me. Even though my area nudged up against the 180 WSI.

Why use past experience, and not just move on?? Because I think the F'd it up big time for this year and others, and its time to start holding some of these people accountable and get a look at how they are accumulating (or manipulating) their data.

[wally243]

This is too funny!!!!!!! Erik keep trying to defend them. Give a reason that we didn't know 10 years ago. Give me a reason anyone needs to shoot 4 does and a buck????? Give me anything they have done better than my 4 year old could have done for FREE??

[BuckSutherland]

Like I said just cause we can, doesnt me we should. I'm forunate enough to have a piece of property that i have had access to for 7 years. Its 220 acres. I have a great relationship with land owner and basically have total control over it. Just because I'm allowed to shoot as many does as possible with the tags handed out-following the rules, doesnt mean I'm going to. We as people including the DNR are not perfect, but to keep saying we are just following the rules and blame the DNR for it all is ridculious. If i go out and shoot a buck with my bow, one with the gun and my kid shoot one with a gun, along with endless doe permits what would the land look like next year. Stop blaming and start helping control it. Who really needs 4-5 deer in their freezer anyways. How much do you end up givng away or throwing out every year.

If its not OK, then WHY ON EARTH ARE THEY SELLING THE PERMITS?!?!?

And I have gone two years without venison if you would like to know. Not that I havent had a chance or three, but I dont want to add to the situation. Would have had to been a special circumstance for me to harvest an animal.

[PurpleFloyd]

Liberals......

[jay83196]

Really? Do you drive 60 if the speed limit is 70? Do you think most people care or think that way! "Hey I'm not going to shoot"....to save and protect what's best for hunting...I doubt it! Most people (average hunter) IMO thinks hey if I don't shoot this deer somebody else will OR I wont see anything else or I payed for these bonus tags im going to fill them or most of all....I'm FOLLOWING THE RULES if it was hurting anything the rules would be different. I'm not saying I do or you do this but most of us on here are a small measures of the hunting community. I'm saying many hunters do think that way and nomatter what is done if the rules are 5 deer they may shoot 3 or 4 or 5 deer and nothing you or I say or do can change it. Clearly this is the thought process or many areas would not be suffering like this. It's up to the dnr to have a smart balance in place, if people are going to rape and pillage hunting make them break the law to do it! It's common sense, can't believe you don't get it!

[Abndoc]

Really? Do you drive 60 if the speed limit is 70?

Do you drive 70 mph in a blinding snow storm because the rules say you can. Thats exactly what is wrong our whole country, nobody takes any responsibility. I'm going to do whatever i want because its in the rules, then when it turns bad i'm going to blame someone else. Learn some to have some discipline. I'm fat, i eat 7 big macs a day, i'm going to sue mcdonalds because nobody told me to stop.

[jay83196]

No Sir, but I'm not the moron in the ditch driving too fast, to my point it's not breaking the law either not to mention at the start when they shoulda changed the regulations or when put in place there was no blizzard,the blizzard (problem) started after multiple years of intensive harvest! Ofyen the problem isnt obvious until it's too late. And I'm not the guy with 4 or 5 deer in my freezer either! Again like what was just said and has been said over and over if it's not ok to take 5 why have it in place to take 5 deer! They messed up stop making excuses for them....they are paid to know these things and make the decisions, they messed up.... you on the DNR payroll or what!

[Farmsfulltime]

Searched one year ago and this is too funny same group same complaining almost word for word , probably be the same next year and the year after . ground hog day all over again

[Eric Wettschreck]

This is too funny!!!!!!! Erik keep trying to defend them. Give a reason that we didn't know 10 years ago. Give me a reason anyone needs to shoot 4 does and a buck????? Give me anything they have done better than my 4 year old could have done for FREE??

I'm curious why you guys think I'm defending them. I have never said the DNR is blameless. Actually I said they made mistakes in the past. Learn from them and move on. I can't give you a reason they didn't act 10 years ago or why someone should tag 5 deer in a season because there isn't one.

And Buck, I"m not blaming corn. We both know, however, it's a tooth in the gear.

[LandDr]

Cutting down trees for the sake of the prairie chicken while hurting the pheasant and deer population that brings in more money to the local economy.

Planting nothing but high end prairies on WMAs with no regard to development of thermal cover and food sources to get more deer and pheasants through the winter that bring in more money into the local economy.

Grazing WMAs for the sake of "prairie management" with no regard to getting resident wildlife through the winter that contribute to our local economies.

Wolves...

Elk...(Landowners can't establish food plots for the deer they want to manage for and why they invested into buying the land in the first place)

DNR needs to be held accountable rather than it being run by special interest groups.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

And Buck, I"m not blaming corn. We both know, however, it's a tooth in the gear.

Corn has been a tooth in the gear for decades. Corn is now an excuse thats widely used and accepted by people.

Somehow corn didnt cause low harvests when we were consistently over 200k harvest annually. Harvests were higher because we had more deer.

Wind, rain and corn are nothing but excuses now. If there was adequate deer, managed properly, we should just have reasonable rises and falls in harvest levels. Not complete collapses in harvest numbers.

[LandDr]

I understand this is a deer thread, but regarding accountability...

Just had someone in saying the DNR and DU are scheduled to drain Pelican Lake new St. Micheal which he stated is an excellent pan fish lake with some good walleyes...no rough fish except for a few bullheads...land locked so rough fish can't get into it. He expressed that this is a great lake that keeps bait shops busy, etc.

I love duck hunting...but if it is a good fishing lake and contributes to the local economy, leave it alone! Appears on the surface to be more special interest projects without consideration of the local economy and what the majority of the people using the resource actually want.

[laker1]

I know a big group who shot 18 deer for 18 people a few years back,next year they got zero. Its their own fault,too big a group for too small of area.

I think it has become the blame game,instead of the solution,which might just happen with present regs and two mild winters.

Hunters have always had a excuse.

[Getanet]

Perfect example of why being a DNR employee is a thankless task. One guy has a conversation with one guy, and suddenly they are an expert on what the DNR should or shouldn't be doing regarding a situation they weren't even aware of 5 minutes previous.

[LandDr]

When someone submits a post...why do they often get attacked? Getanet...are you just in attack mode? It's just conversation and nothing in my post was geared towards you...just conversation.

I simply stated "on the surface" this is what it looks like...to see if anyone else knows anything about this, etc. I did a quick internet search and did find some other conversations about it...not that everything is correct on the internet LOL...but if this is the case, maybe it deserves some sunlight and questions asked. Just many other apparent issues need some sunlight and questions asked. Fair enough?