Posting Land/Handling Trespassers and Neighbors

[delcecchi]

It is what it is. We seasonal and recreational folks got stuck for a good chunk of $80 million in school construction for St Louis County district (the long skinny one from Cotton to Orr that has all the stuff nobody else wanted) to "save money".

[harvey lee]

I have hunted on land that got sold and then posted, that's the choice of the current landowner, just maybe they purchased the land for themselves to enjoy, I thought that was ok but I guess some may look at that differently.

As I have stated before, continue to do as one pleases when it comes to private land and soon all will have to trespass, one cannot continue to upset the landowners anymore. Maybe we could look at how well that kind of thinking has worked in the past 20 years, simply more land will get posted, thats just fact from prior years of trespassing.

Back to the ethics I guess, maybe only a few have that anymore at all.

[harvey lee]

"The old "what's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable". Outsiders may be paying the taxes but they are also making the property unaffordable for locals and sometimes acting like jerkbaits. And some of the locals resent all of those things. Having a "rich cake eating" 612'er post a piece of land that they have been hunting for years can be sort of irritating."

I guess this must be like a liberal/conservative issue where neither party is going to agree with the other. It is irritating to me when my 14 year old daughter and wife are out at the shed getting some wood and some 218'er blasts a deer in my unaffordable driveway 200 feet from them. But after all his grandpa homesteaded 160 acres in 1903 and when his girlfriend is ahead of me at the grocery store she's using a WIC card. Nice seeing them at the bar on Friday's at 3pm too. Thank God I don't have one of the Million dollar cabins on the lake, I'd really be asking for it then.

If the price paid for the piece of land was high, one alone cannot drive the price up, that's 2 or more.

One works hard and saves and buys a piece of ground for the asking price, don't see how the 612er caused that all on his own. If the landowner then drive sup in a shiny new pick up, does that mean he is a wealthy 612er?

I believe it is down to jealousy of the other who purchased the land so we can hate him just for that.

So now, from what I read, you can judge all as they are from a metro area? WOW.

land sells for prices I could have never dreamed of but it took more than a few to drive that price up. If they are willing to pay what it takes to get a section of woods and can afford it, more power to them.

[smsmith]

So now, from what I read, you can judge all as they are from a metro area?

Not sure if I'm understanding what you're saying here...but if you're saying the locals can pick out a metro person....then yes...that's pretty much true. Not by their pick ups so much (though if its really nice and shiny and on a gravel road...yep...not a local), more so by their clothes, mannerisms, and speech.

[BobT]

here is my thought any time I see or hear of trespassing:

You and three buddies decide to buy 200 acres of hunting land somewhere. You spend $200,000 and build a little hunting shack and make a few plots and build some stands for deer hunting. You spend a lot of money, time, and effort for your new little piece of heaven. You decide not to hunt it after Oct 15 for grouse to let the deer settle down. You have it posted properly by the way. Friday of opener you get up there at noon and unpack all you gear for deer season #1. Your own little honey hole. At 3pm you hear some shots and go out on your land and three guys with 2 dogs are grouse hunting on your land. They tell you "we always hunted it when the Johnson's owned it, thought it would still be okay since we hadn't seen anyone up here since Mid October." You now are depressed, mad, and wondering why you spent $200,000 so you could have your own hunting land.

Don't buzz kill others and don't trespass.

In this scenario you say the land was properly posted. Those grouse hunters would be clearly in the wrong and their story was hogwash.

[BobT]

Just a notable from Outdoor News Cuffs and Collars this week:

CO Matt Frericks (Virginia) spent time investigating reports about dumping garbage. By going through the garbage pile, CO Frericks was able to find and piece together enough information to locate the owner of the garbage. Still more deer baits are being found. Reports about people posting state land with “no trespassing” signs are being investigated and monitored.

I've been continuing to follow along with this thread and have quite a bit I'd like to comment on but don't have the time to write a book.

Basically it boils down to problems being caused by a few on both sides of the fence, pun intended. If we all take the time to read and understand the laws and abide by them, and then follow up with being civil to one another, everything can be worked out without too much strife.

One comment I will take the time to make though since I felt compelled to look these things up: Trespassing (real estate) is defined as entering another's land without permission. It's a word, not a crime. The State determines at what point it becomes an infraction of the law. One thing it is NOT for sure is a felony, and moreover not a violent felony. Having a violent felony committed toward your person is the only time self defense by bodily harm is legally acceptable. That is applied equally to landowners and trespassers.

Stay safe out there. We're all in this together whether you agree with the rules or not.

Thumbs up!

[BobT]

No, it is not illegal. That's the point that is trying to be made here. If someone enters your private property and it is non-agriculture land that is not legally posted then they are not an illegal trespasser. Non-agricultural private land (i.e. woodlands, grasslands NOT enrolled in CRP, etc) are open to the public for recreational use unless the land owner has chosen to post their land, therefore preventing public use of their land. At least that is the way it seems in the statues/regs. Why else make the differentiation between ag, non-ag, and posting requirements? Reference BobT's post on the bottom of page 2 which is taken from the regulations. Notice that it says ag land does not require posting, but non-ag land must be LEGALLY POSTED to prevent access. It goes on to state that unless the land is posted or the landowner has asked the person to leave and they have refused or have returned again after being told to leave, then there is no criminal trespassing violation to be prosecuted. I guess you can call it trespassing in the sense that they are on private property that isn't theirs, but I don't see how any legal action can be taken against them when clearly, in a legal sense, they haven't violated any statutes. But I could be wrong, certainly wouldn't be the first time.

This is exactly right. As a hunter who hunts areas where boundaries are not clearly marked and where I know public land is illegally marked, all I'm asking for is landowners to make it possible to know when we are traveling where we are not wanted. Is that too much to ask? Or would or be better if this landowner just sits on his front deck with his 30-06 and starts picking off pheasant hunters from 400 yards away when he sees them trespassing? Good grief! You find me on your unposted land and don't want me there, just tell me and then when I ask, help me understand where you're property lines are so I can show you the same respect by obliging your request which I would happily do.

[harvey lee]

I would agree Bob if you cannot find the landowner and he has private land next to a public area, does not post it, then I would say its fine to go in.

[harvey lee]

Smsmith, as far as a new pick up on a gravel, most farmers around my area all have new shiny pickups on a gravel road so it would be tough to pick anyone out.

I do not care if they drive a new or beat up truck, they bought the land and anyone else can do the same if they wish to invest whatever it takes to own it, that's the buyers choice.

[smsmith]

Smsmith, as far as a new pick up on a gravel, most farmers around my area all have new shiny pickups on a gravel road so it would be tough to pick anyone out.

I do not care if they drive a new or beat up truck, they bought the land and anyone else can do the same if they wish to invest whatever it takes to own it, that's the buyers choice.

Your farmers must be more affluent than mine

I don't care either Harvey. I'm a "transplant" and will never be accepted as a local...fine by me. I'm sure when I bought this parcel it didn't make the neighbors overjoyed, but since then they've figured out that I'm not a "jerkbait". All I'm saying is that yes...city folks stick out in rural central MN. That's not a bad thing at all...just saying it occurs.

[Farmsfulltime]

Most farmers control or have assets several times the average citizen , average farm 600 acres and up good farm land in excess of 4000.00 acre and up then include equipment worth several million .

[harvey lee]

Totally agree with you Farmsfulltime.

[Farmsfulltime]

Most trespass comes down to lack of respect for your fellow man , most of us with any morals know where we belong in relationship to others property. What some do not understand is the commitment involved with owning and buying land its almost as if they believe private property rights don't exist . Follow this thread certainly many differing views out there . ask first if you didn't ask then you don't have permission pretty simple really .

Theres a saying in farming , farmers live poor and die rich ,, because we are always saving for the next big thing we need , want so tend to accumulate assets

[smsmith]

Most trespass comes down to lack of respect for your fellow man , most of us with any morals know where we belong in relationship to others property. What some do not understand is the commitment involved with owning and buying land its almost as if they believe private property rights don't exist . Follow this thread certainly many differing views out there . ask first if you didn't ask then you don't have permission pretty simple really .

Well stated FFT

[delcecchi]

Some trespass comes from a sense of entitlement. "Why can't I go there, he isn't using it" "I need to go there" etc. But I also see a lot of folks on here with the mindset that before anyone sets a foot off the road they need to go to the courthouse, download a few apps onto their phone, and fire up the GPS.

Seems to me that the way the law is written in Minnesota is pretty fair. If someone is using their property, ie ag land, plowed, crops, fences, stay out. Otherwise it is ok unless they care enough to put up a few signs that they have put their contact info on, or at least signed their name so you know it is the actual property owner.

I see lots of real estate ads up north for "20 acres, adjoining 500 acres public land" or along those lines. I wonder how the folks that buy the 20 acres feel about people on that public land? How many Perm stands get built on that public land?

[BobT]

Examples of some of the places I've encountered.

Twenty years ago when I was in the logging business we were clear cutting land that was owned by US Steel and came across a hunting shack. Based on its condition we could tell it had been used in the not so distant past. It was actually a rather nice shack.

A couple months ago a friend and I were out and came across another nice place on land owned by Potlatch. Now this place was really nice, probably nicer than my house. Log buildings including the shack, a storage shed, and sauna all along a nice river front. The trail we walked in on was posted without proper signature and my friend was quite familiar with the Potlatch property and knew where the boundaries were. It happened the guy that built it was there but he didn't say a word to us about our being there. Hmm. Wonder why?

[rkhinrichs]

check out OnXmaps!! they are great! yea it cost a little money, but makes me feel better when walking through the woods where boundries are hard to come by.

[smsmith]

A couple months ago a friend and I were out and came across another nice place on land owned by Potlatch. Now this place was really nice, probably nicer than my house. Log buildings including the shack, a storage shed, and sauna all along a nice river front. The trail we walked in on was posted without proper signature and my friend was quite familiar with the Potlatch property and knew where the boundaries were. It happened the guy that built it was there but he didn't say a word to us about our being there. Hmm. Wonder why?

It would appear that you're insinuating somebody dropped $100K+ to build a home/cabin and outbuildings on land they don't own....is that accurate?

[delcecchi]

Doesn't Potlatch lease some of their land? And they are selling some as well

[BobT]

Doesn't Potlatch lease some of their land? And they are selling some as well

I have no idea how much it cost. It was built out of logs and whether it cost a lot in $$ or labor they did it. Considering how much people spend on permanent stands on public property, nothing surprises me.

Also don't know if it was built all at once or piece by piece over many years.

[NWKR]

I have no idea how much it cost. It was built out of logs and whether it cost a lot in $$ or labor they did it. Considering how much people spend on permanent stands on public property, nothing surprises me.

Also don't know if it was built all at once or piece by piece over many years.

I thought it was nicer than your house?

Was this in a county that has a GIS HSOforum? Let us know the location and we can look it up and get those guys turned in.

Or else we can draw #s and take turns using it on weekends!

[wannafish2]

I'll politely disagree. If I come across a piece of land I want to hunt. I may not know if it is public or not, but I certainly know I don't own it. the regs even say that you should find out before hunting new land. Minimum you should ask the closest resident if it is theirs, public or not...even if it is just for safety sake to let them know you will be in there. Why can't everyone just be polite and do the right thing? I know it's getting tougher to get permission to hunt on private property. This is just another example of why people don't let us anymore, somebody else left a bad taste in their mouth and now we all pay for it.

If something isn't yours, ask. if you don't get the answer you wanted, be polite and move on. period.

just my .02

wannafish2 (and wannahunt2)

[BLACKJACK]

Was out pheasant hunting yesterday on some public land, the land next to it had newly posted No Trespass signs but nothing was written on them, no name, no phone number, no date, so I immediately jumped the fence and hunted that land too -- because the signs were not correctly filled out.

JUST KIDDING!!!!

[Boar]

Ive been foolowing some on this topic, This morning I was listening to the radio adn a local station anounce was talking to the local CO as a guest topic speaker with Q@A,he was asked various things and one question was what are some of the violations he comes across, and the Co responded, baiting and went in to that area, loaded fire arms transport, went into that area, and tresspassing. His exact words were and this from a MN Game Warden, traind in the feild Co officer , not a paper pusher at the district office, his exact words were, If you dont have permission to be there, your tresspassing and in violation of the law. nuthing about signs or dates and signitures, or any of the things mentioned here, simply if you dont have permission to be ther, your tresspassing. pretty simple to me i guesse

[not_nuf_time]

You mean, exactly what the deer hunting regulations say, funny isn't it interesting how people read or see what they want. Thx Boar.