2014 DIY New Mexico Elk Hunt - The Land of Enchantment

[Powerstroke]

What an amazing story Jim! Certainly a hunt of a lifetime.

I remember your story from last year and the advice that Scoot and others had passed on and it seems you were much more aggressive this year and it almost always worked in your favor. These are important lessons for a new elk hunter.

[NoWiser]

I remember your story from last year and the advice that Scoot and others had passed on and it seems you were much more aggressive this year and it almost always worked in your favor. These are important lessons for a new elk hunter.

You are right on the money. I knew I'd have a lot of encounters on this hunt so right off the bat I wanted to try to get a feel for what I could get away with. I knew if I bumped them I'd have plenty more opportunities. As mentioned previously in this thread, the wind is the deal breaker. You can get away with noise and some movement, but if they smell you they are gone. Unfortunately, "finicky" is an understatement when it comes to describing the wind in the mountains. Aggressive is great, but watch that wind!!

[Scoot]

... it seems you were much more aggressive this year and it almost always worked in your favor. These are important lessons for a new elk hunter.

[NoWiser]

If the wind is completley bad, and like NoWiser said- it is more than not, there's little you can do. However, aggressive bugling (and I really mean aggressive bugling, not just uninformed bugling or locator calls) takes a lot less time than cow calling in most cases. So, when you get fickle wind and it's semi-cooperative, but not entirely cooperative, being aggressive as heck will hugely work to your advantage most often because it's fast. You go in screaming your fool head off and it'll either work, or it won't, and you'll know in a matter of seconds which is the case.

Most often with cow calling it'll take a lot longer to play out. With cow calling, if the wind swirls once in the 15 minutes you're doing it, you're done for. Odds are much better that the wind won't swirl in the 30 seconds the scenerio unfolds when you charge in screaming aggressive bugles. There's lots to the how and when piece of aggressive bugling, but it's one way to try combat swirling winds.

Great point, and advice!! I just wish it would have worked even once for us on this trip We tried it multiple times and were within 100 yards of the bull every time, but it just wouldn't work! I suspect it's because the big bulls were sharing cows during our season (which seemed very odd) and really couldn't have cared less if another joined the party. The cows did care, and would hightail it out of there pulling the bulls with them. The guide across from our camp was also perplexed as he observed the exact same behavior.

The bulls attitudes towards each other started to change drastically the 2nd to last day of our hunt, and I bet if we would have had a few more days it would have turned into a deadly technique.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

I bet if we would have had a few more days...

Seems like I'm saying that after the end of every out-of-state hunt! By the time you get 'em figured out, it's time to head home!

[Scoot]

The bulls attitudes towards each other started to change drastically the 2nd to last day of our hunt, and I bet if we would have had a few more days it would have turned into a deadly technique.

I'd be shocked if that weren't the case. When the cows start to go into estrus and are really ready to go, the bulls quit playing nice and will tear the head off any newbie bull coming to take their receptive cows.

The advice of most is to just cow call and don't bugle, other than an occasional locator bugle. That's not how I've killed most of the bulls I've killed and not how most of the bulls I've called in were called to. Look up a guy named Danny Moore- he's killed a ton of huge bulls and all of them have been bugled in. ...even though most locals out West I've ever talked to will tell you that you can only cow call them in. This will be relevant in the story I tell (when I get to it) and is reflected in a conversation I had with a very knowledgable elk hunting local. Interesting stuff and definitely shows there's more than one way to skin a cat (or a bull).

[NoWiser]

Scoot,

Keeping Danny Moore in mind, I made a point to ask every hunter or guide that I met out there whether they use cow calls or bugles when they get in on elk. All but one said that they pretty much stick to cow calls. But, I couldn't help but notice the eyes light up on the guide who said he bugles them in. You could tell by his body language that he got excited just thinking about it. Much more so than the cow callers. The key, according to him, is to get within 100 yards. Within 65 yards is best. Of course, you already knew that, but I thought it worth mentioning that he stressed getting close. He was a believer in raking trees first and, if that didn't work, screaming a bugle at the elk. Without a doubt I believe that guy killed more and bigger bulls than everyone else. He was a wealth of knowledge and happy to share it with us. Even he, though, was struggling to pull bulls into archery range for his hunter. He did end up helping his client get a 320ish bull eventually.

On a side note I'm staying in touch with this guy. He lives in Arizona and seems very knowledgeable about the elk there, though he won't guide in the state because "the people there are a bunch of jerks." He could be a valuable asset when we draw our respective AZ tags one day!

[Scoot]

That guide sounds like he and I could be split at birth regarding our calling technique! I don't always rake to start with, but I often incorporate it into my calling sets. I can be deadly. It can be really effective all by itself too. No doubt getting in the bull's living room is super important. Between 50 and 100 yards is key.

One last thing- I can absolutely understand why that guide got all excited thinking about calling in bulls by aggressive bugling. Calling in elk with cow calls is cool- watching the bull work his way in, hearing/seeing him calling the "cow" to him, watching him decide where to go and how far to pursue the "cow" is all cool. However, in terms of excitement that can't hold a candle to aggressively bugling in a bull. It's fast paced, high adrenaline stuff for sure! There's nothing like a bull coming screaming in looking for a fight! Note: this may, or may not, be relevant to my story when I get it posted!

[CodyDawg]

Does this tactic work as well on satellite bulls or is this more of a thing to try with herd bulls only? I haven't tried this yet, but will be doing it next year on my WY hunt.

[Fishalittle]

So what is a good bugle call for a beginner to start with? I have my favorite cow calls and have successfully called in a 6X6 and had some interactions with other bulls at a greater distance answering but not coming in. So now I think it is time to take it to the next level....but I don't want to have to try 5 different bugle calls to get a good one. So what do you guys recommend for a beginner bugler? Prefer something not overly bulky either but will compromise if it is easier to learn and more forgiving.

[Scoot]

CodyDawg, this is a technique that can work on either, but is most effective on bigger bulls. It's particularly effective on bulls that have cows with them. However, it can work on a lone bull without cows is he's in the right mood. The key is to know if he's in the right mood, which you can if you know what he's telling you when he's calling. Depending upon what calls/sounds he's making one can tell if he's aggressive/assertive or if he's trying to just play nice and not step on any other bull's toes.

It's vitally important to know what's happening so you can know what type of call to make. Going in screaming your head off at every opportunity won't be the best approach for sure. Tooting on a bugle and expecting a bull to come storming in from 600 yards away isn't the most likely scenerio either (although it can happen). Does the bull you're after want company or does it want to avoid any company? Is the bull chuckling or is he grunting at the end of his bugle? Does he have cows with him? ...and on and on! Lots of info will go into determining what the best approach is. Often I don't know what the right answer is, but I often do know what I think will work best based on the calls I've heard, the elk I've seen, where they're located, etc. Mostly it's listening to the calls the bull's making and knowing what they mean so I know how to best approach calling to him.

[Scoot]

Fishalittle, I use the Chuckler by Elknut. However, there are a ton of good ones. I've heard good things about the Bully Bugle and about the Powerbugle too, and I wouldn't hesitate to use either one.

I much prefer a diaphram call to a bugle that has latex somehow incorporated into it. However, some prefer the opposite. There's no way for anyone to tell you what your preferences will be without you trying them. However, if you're already using a diaphram call I'd suggest you just get a bulge tube to add to your diaphram calls.

Regarding diaphram calls you'll want at least two of them: one that'll let you do higher pitched calls like cow calls and spike/immature bulls and one that's a little lower, nastier for aggressive bugling. Either one can be used for the other, but neither will have the range that'll allow you to cover all you'd ever want, so I'd suggest at least those two to cover both types of calls.

At least that's my take on this. Jim? Others? It's good to get other's opinions on the matter...

[NoWiser]

Though I hesitate to offer much advice until I find myself able to consistently kill elk (or even kill a single elk), my take on it is much the same as Scoot's. It is not hard to judge a bull's mood from the sound of his bugles. There is a big difference between a locator bugle or chuckle and a scream or aggressive bugle with grunts.

It's kind of like the difference in tone my fiancé used yesterday while communicating with me after work. The first tone she used when she thanked me for finally changing out the water filter on the refrigerator so the light quit blinking. The other tone she used when she opened it and found that hundreds of tiny worms that were hiding in the mushroom I had picked the day before had migrated to all corners of said refrigerator. I didn't (couldn't) need to understand the actual words she was using to know exactly what her mood was at the time, and the best course of action for me to take.

The difference is often just as obvious with elk. Many agree that aggressively bugling at timid bulls will chase them away, and timid bugling at aggressive bulls will get you ignored. That's been my philosophy, but we all know how well it worked for me the last two years

If I were you, I'd learn to call with a diaphragm if that is not what you are already doing. I don't think the grunt tube makes a real big difference. I also use Elknut's chuckler. It's light and cheap. You could probably get a $2.00 wiffle ball bat, cut it to the right size, and use some spray adhesive to glue some camo fabric to it and have a perfectly functional grunt tube.

[CodyDawg]

I, too, am a fan of Elknut. Been listening and reading his stuff for awhile now.

I have a few cow diaphragm calls but my bugle call is a latex model. I might have to look into a different one before archery in WY next year.

Just got off the phone with my cousin in Idaho and he had much the same experience as you NoWiser (but not as many contacts). Most of the time his encounters ended with the herd grazing 400 yards out of the timber with nothing he could do but watch them.

[Fishalittle]

I am an elk nut fan and have the DVD's. Guess another order is in the future.

Will have to try the diaphragm calls. So far had best luck with Carlton's Lonesome Cow and the hunters specialties Bull Hooker calls. Have tried Primos but didn't seem to get the knack for them. The two I like are real easy to make a variety of cow calls however the bull hooker is not hands free. That is more important now!

[NELS-BELLS]

I really enjoyed the story NoWiser. Thanks for sharing. You do an excellent job of telling the story and the photos are great.

Nels

[HooknHorns]

I have the bugling bull extreme tube and my buddies have the power bugle. Now I'm not saying that one is better than the other. I might just plain stink at chuckling. So I never used it out in Colorado. Just stuck to cow calls and a location bugle.

The power bugle sounds awesome chuckling and can be packed since its a smaller tube and flexible. I don't know if you can lip bawl with it to get that aggressive bugle. If I don't get this chuckling down, I might be investing in a power bugle.

I do love the way bugling bull tube bugles though. Plus you can throw out a louder cow call in the wind if you had to. There was two of us calling for a friend and after his cow call I threw out a nasty bugle unexpectedly and the shooter look like he'd just had a cardiac arrest. Nice and loud like a real bull.

The diaphragms I used were the mellow yellow, All star and a white and blue Primos ones. When cow calling I just loved the temptress open reed. But like mentioned it's not hands free. I'm looking to try some phelps diaphragms.

I've heard elknut use a chuckle on his video and I can get close to that no problem. Then when you hear Jason phelps chuckle, wow that's what I'm talking about. It seems a lot different. I cant put my finger on it yet. I do have time to practice before my next trip.

I'd like to hear how No wiser's chuckle sounds like, cause I need help. I've watched plenty videos but still can't master it.

[marine_man]

A great story.. thank you for sharing!

marine_man

[BoxMN]

A great story.. thank you for sharing!

marine_man

Ditto!!!

Great story, and like Scoot, great writing to let us feel it with you.

[Surface Tension]

Thanks for the roller coaster ride!

The hunt and adventure is what its about.

[iffwalleyes]

Man I was pulling for you. I thought you were going to make it happen. Awesome memories. I know I didn't fill a tag in MT a few years ago and was upset at the time. But I won't trade the time or memories for nothing now. Other than the longing to get back out there.

[huntingislife]

Nowiser,

Curious on your decision to get the BT2 rather than the BT1. Do you think it would have had enough room if you did not purchase extra pockets? Thinking back, would you still have purchased the BT2? Thanks for the insight. These packs are too expensive to buy the wrong size!

[NoWiser]

huntingislife,

Sorry, I just saw your post, so I'm about 3 months late replying.

The BT2 is plenty big for me. I added extra pockets more for convenience than anything. I could easily get 10 days worth of supplies for a backpacking hunt in it, if I needed to. And, that's without super top of the line gear.

When I got the pack I figured the smaller size would force me to pack more conservatively, and it did. I'd say the size is just perfect. I know many prefer a bigger size so they can pack an animal and camp out at once but I'd just be kidding myself if I thought I was strong enough to do that without getting hurt.

If you are ever down in the south metro and want to take a look at the pack, just send me a PM.