Audit Push: Time To Act!

[smsmith]

I chuckled. You need better habitat, Stu.

Yup...I'm pretty new to the whole habitat thing...maybe some guys from here could educate me.

[smsmith]

From reading these threads it sounds like sm has plenty of a-1 cover habitat , how many cameras do you have out are you seeing no deer at all , is it really that bad or maybe not the right type of deer or numbers ??

I'm running 3 cams right now. Low numbers of antlerless deer are my primary concern. I have zero mature bucks running around either, but hey...its MN...that's the norm

As a private landowner who has time and ability to do a lot of habitat work, my situation is better than many. I truly feel sorry for public land hunters and private land owners who don't have the time or ability to work on their properties to make them better.

[PurpleFloyd]

Where do the deer go to hide on your property when they are under pressure?

[smsmith]

Deer are never "under pressure" on my place.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Where do the deer go to hide on your property when they are under pressure?

We have 40 acres of land that we pretty much do not touch year round.... At least our goal is that it would be a safe haven for deer/wildlife.

We are in our 3rd year of the sanctuary.... Hasnt done diddly for deer sightings for us. Kinda fun to pay $500 in property taxes for 40 acres that we dont even get to use.

So frustrating to be honest.. And especially in the area that we are in.

[Bureaucrat]

I wish the season were here and past the first weekend so we could get some live reports from the orange army. I can tell you our trail cam surveys are terrible this season compared to last. I think this year I'm going to get a clicker and keep it in my pocket to count shots for the first two days.

[PurpleFloyd]

Deer are never "under pressure" on my place.

and your neighbors?

[Bureaucrat]

I bought my clicker on amazon today. Could make for an interesting project over three or five years.

[Getanet]

I always love how it's usually too dark to read my watch when I hear the first shot of the season.

[smsmith]

and your neighbors?

To answer your question Floyd...there is a large (350 acreish) cattail/tag alder/tamarack swamp that surrounds an environmental lake. My section of that area forms my western property boundary, and it forms the boundary for everyone who has property that butts up to said environmental lake. On my place that area comprises maybe 17-20 acres or so. That area is permanent sanctuary, hasn't seen human activity for the time I've owned it, and before then it saw very, very limited human activity (like getting pushed second weekend of deer season every 3rd year or so). On the other side of my place (my property is not square or rectangle, very odd shaped) there is a creek bottom with a ridge on either side of it. That area is also permanent sanctuary and is made up of maybe 12-15 acres. Other areas on my place I've done hinge cutting to make it appear as though a tornado went through and have planted several thousand evergreens mixed in/under those hinge cuts. Other than trails, about an acre of wildflowers, mini-orchards, and several acres of foodplots, my entire property sees very little human activity 80+% of the year.

I've been doing habitat work since I was a kid (started on my folks' place(s) mid 70's), and went gungho on habitat sometime in the early 90's when I bought my first chunk of ground. When I bought my current place I did my homework on the habitat of the area, I looked at a good number of parcels before buying here. The area has fantastic habitat for miles and miles in every direction. Excellent mix of elevations here too, always nice for funneling movement. Not to sound overly arrogant, but I know what I'm doing when it comes to habitat. I've helped others with their habitat for a number of years as well. Can't tell you how many questions I've answered about fruit trees and mast bearing shrubs/trees in the last 20 years...100's anyway.

There's always more to learn, so if you have nuggets of wisdom for me I'm all ears.

[Bureaucrat]

My tip: Go bonkers with the red osier dogwood while the gettin's good. That was our plan this year. So far it's working well. Hopefully in another couple years we'll have tons of winter cover, road screen, and reachable winter browse. It's not thermal cover, but at least it's cover from the mobile chevy stands.

[laker1]

Red Osier dogwood is good stuff. How are you replanting it?

Also Mountain maple is a excellent bush,tho it can get a little higher.

[Bureaucrat]

I got 300 plugs from Itasca Greenhouse. Planted all of them in one day. Fast, cheap, and easy. There are some considerations to keep in mind though. One, you're just punching a hole in the ground and kicking it shut. Rain helps a lot. B, you're not going to get 100% survival. But when they're 25 cents a piece and you can plant multiple per minute, you can beat it with quantity. And fourth, you may be planting into grass, weeds, or taller vegetation, so it could take an extra year or two for them to stretch out.

My hope is that because they are native and fast growing they can tolerate the sun and space competition for a couple years then stretch over and above the rest.

Beyond that, my hope is that the deer and birds do the reseeding and spreading for me.

[NWKR]

Red Osier dogwood is good stuff. How are you replanting it?

Also Mountain maple is a excellent bush,tho it can get a little higher.

I have looked for mountain maple bushes lately and have not found any places selling them when doing a internet search. Know of any places?

[Bureaucrat]

Nailed it!

I had to search the US"DA" to find the scientific name of it. I then went back and googled Acer spicatum nursery

http://www.outbacknursery.com/catalog/acerspicata.htm

http://www.outbacknursery.com/catalog/trees.htm

I've never used this nursery, so i can't offer any feedback. But they're out there.

[smsmith]

Bureaucrat...how did the ROD plugs do over the summer? Pretty good survival rates? I've got 1500 conifers on order with NCR, but may add some ROD.

[Bureaucrat]

From what I can tell they did great. It was an ideal year for plugs given all the rain we had. With all the rain, we also had a very lush forest floor that got up to 4 feet and some spots taller. The ROD plugs I received were about 3 feet tall to begin with, so that helped.

Of the ones I could find, all were growing and healthy looking. Many of them got nipped by the deer, but not pulled out, and not too much taken off. The fellar at IG said it wasn't a big deal if they get nipped. It could even help them tolerate a drought in the early stages of year 1 or 2.

They were hard to find among the greenery this year, but I did find many of them and they looked good. I'll wait through next year to do a better stand assessment. If I got holes, I will most likely go back in year 3 and put in another 100 or so.

For next year, it's looking like a lot of brush work is going to need to be done to keep sunlight in order. I'm gonna intermingle a few dozen chokeberry bushes between my bur oak tubes and do some grafting on the apples. Otherwise, the rest of the work is building out the food plots and getting the trail soils ready to plant rye.

[Farmsfulltime]

Is the audit push over or are the special interest groups waiting till after the main deer season to start the push on the DNR because of a lower harvest, maybe that's the only way to get traction ? The harvest will be lower because the groups asked for less tags and got that now they will want more of the DNR . Here is a thought let the system work as intended and the deer will be plenty.

[ANYFISH2]

. Here is a thought let the system work as intended and the deer will be plenty.

That's is what we are trying to ensure happens.

[Farmsfulltime]

I can see well whats being tried and there doesn't seem to be much support for the manipulations by a few as the main supporters of the audit have all signed on and then nothing not much REAL support in the hunting populations, So the one agenda is to sell the fear of a crashing deer herd when deer hunting is fresh in the hunters minds , because if you wait 1 or 2 months the average hunter wont care again very well hidden but still out in the open . Well thought out but wont work well .

[Jameson]

...The harvest will be lower because the groups asked for less tags and got that...

You have niave reasoning, like I used to. Last hunting season (2013) the DNR had more tags available then the previous season (2012) and WE HARVESTED FEWER DEER.

More tags does not necessarily equate to more deer shot. Less tags does not necessarily equate to less deer shot.

Considering all the standing corn we supposedly had last year, and all the fields that didn't even get planted this year, the harvest should be up from last year. The reports were that it was really windy last year, too. If we have little wind our harvest should go up.

Does that last paragraph read like a pile of doo doo, because it is the reasons given by the DNR for the lower harvest the past couple of years.

Unless we have drastically changed regulations the only reason harvest goes up or down is the deer population. Going from Lottery to Bucks Only is only going to save the number of does that were shot in that unit the previous year, and could increase the buck harvest. Whoop de do da. Not much change in harvest numbers for one year from that kind of regulation change.

[Bear55]

Why don't we all just get ready for a very low harvest. The DNR will say they are giving out less tags to help the population recover and site the past two winters for a lower population. The will be mostly right but people will freak out anyway.

[hockeybc69]

I am ready for a low harvest. But what irks me is that our wildlife manager INSISTS that our population of deer is the same today as it was in 2007.

Yet our harvest is down 34% from 2007 to last season....

I have asked over and over.... How can we be shooting so many fewer deer, year after year after year, and at some point there isnt an influx of deer that survive and the populations(or harvest) dont either stabilize or increase??

So yes I am ready for a low harvest, but I am not ready to sit back and watch the continued lack of improvements for the long term with the mentality of the people managing the deer herd.

[Farmsfulltime]

Ok ,, I will date myself a little I have deer hunted since 1971 have seen the highs and lows , and the population now is not low compared to the early 70s , of coarse tags and the DNR control population some . we had very few wolves in the northern one third of the state then with the population then you counted how many you seen in a season not how many daily . Not that I would ever want to see those numbers again I think you young guys cry to much . ITs HUNTING it is supposed to be hard or the accomplishment is worth less. These aren't cattle and can not be managed that way . Let the DNR do their job . Maybe a few past QMDA members got their feelings hurt alittle by one area manager that didn't cow tow to their requests Grow up call for change you got it let the process work . For some the herd and seasons will never be right and will constantly be calling for change . Theres more opportunity out there for the good hunters

[BRULEDRIFTER]

It's HUNTING it is supposed to be hard or the accomplishment is worth less.

Why? Says who? What's wrong with having a higher deer population so it doesn't require people to take multiple weeks off of work trying to pattern and hunt 1 deer, any deer? (oh, that's right, you're a farmer and deer are spawn of the devil).

Now, I'm not saying they should be behind every tree, but it's clear the DNR management is flawed and the deer population is a shell of what it once was.

[smsmith]

Hunting isn't supposed to be "hard"...its supposed to be fun, entertaining, and worthwhile.

Hunting a mature, trophy buck?...yes, that's oftentimes hard and challenging. Hunting a doe or young buck? That is NOT supposed to be hard. I don't want a deer "behind every tree" but I sure as heck want a population of deer that keeps new and young hunters interested in hunting.

Try telling a 13 year old that hunting for a season without seeing a deer is "good" because hunting is supposed to be "hard" and if it wasn't it wouldn't be "rewarding". You'll be hunting without that kid in a couple years because he/she would much rather participate in another activity.

[Farmsfulltime]

No deer are not spawn of the devil, but one thing is absolutely true if you farm you wont ever have a problem finding deer to hunt because they are all here where the food is that's why guys do all the habitat work because they know where the food is ,is where the deer are . As far as young hunters if they hunt they will hunt regardless of populations in fact some of us OLD guys started and stayed with deer hunting from low,low populations in fact didn't see easy hunting until the 80s , Know plenty of committed deer hunters my age that started the same time in life . The good deer hunters will always find plenty even with these populations .

[smsmith]

The good deer hunters will always find plenty even with these populations .

Yup...and the "good deer hunters" comprise what....15% of the hunting public? So the other 85% are stuck with dump hunting. Its easy to say "just be a better deer hunter" or "hunt where the deer are"....its not easy for a lot of folks to become "better" deer hunters, or to change where they hunt. It shouldn't require a marathoner's dedication to go out and shoot a doe or a young buck.

[hockeybc69]

Dang. All i need to find is a farm field??? How stupid of me.

Thanks for the tip FFT.

[nonteepical]

Ok ,, I will date myself a little

your senile.