Spielman should be fired

[kfk]

Buck,

Instead of being a corn farmer, you should have been a professional football general manager. You know it all.

[DrJuice1980]

Buck, I'm trying to think what they all have in common and I can think of a few things but what are you eluding to? Did you not list McNabb for some reason?

[FISHINGURU]

Mcnabb? Oh you mean McNubb lol.

I would just like someone to explain to me what type of scheme we are going to run. It would seem to me that we paid Robison, Floyd, Joesph, and now Griffen. I am assuming we are gonna run a 4-3. Yet our first move is to make a reach and grab a 3-4 DE. It doesnt seem wise to me to take a project and move him out of his natural spot that early in the first round.

And someone commented on Barr and how fast he is. I could say the same thing about how WEAK he is since he could only do 17 reps.

Barr, who was converted from fullback to linebacker just two years ago, projects as the starting strong-side linebacker and special weapon for head coach Mike Zimmer, the defensive mastermind who is transforming Leslie Frazier's reactionary Cover 2-based scheme into an aggressive pressure defense.

"He's like a fawn learning all these things," said Zimmer, referring to the fact Barr has played only two years of linebacker after switching from running back. "I've never had a linebacker that has the size and the speed and all the things this guy has."

That's saying something considering Zimmer consistently coached top-10 defenses in 14 seasons as an NFL defensive coordinator in Dallas, Atlanta and Cincinnati.

Spielman compared Barr to former Dolphin defensive end Jason Taylor, a potential future Hall of Famer. Director of College Scouting Scott Studwell compared him to former Vikings defensive end Chris Doleman, a Hall of Famer. And Zimmer compared Barr's role in the Vikings' defense to how Denver uses Von Miller, the 2011 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

"The strong-side linebacker is a pressure position in our defense," Zimmer said. "But he also can cover."

Barr satisfied the Vikings on game film. And he absolutely blew them away during his pro day, running a 4.47 and posting a better three-cone agility time than any of the cornerbacks at the Scouting Combine, according to Spielman.

"He can rush the passer, but with his speed, we won't have any trouble covering down the seam either," Spielman said. "He can turn his hips and move. And at his size, it makes it harder for the quarterback to fit the ball down the seam."

[Joe_Schmoe]

I gotta hand it to ya, at Least you are not afraid to wear your racism on your sleeve. Its good to be open about your true feelings, now we know how to judge your credibility on all of your other opinions.

I think this subject is done.

And Moon is one of the greatest QB's that ever played. Anybody who played Pro football has always said the same. A Hall of Famer to boot.

I also remember watching Cunningham play when I was growing up, not to mention 1998. It was an awesome display.

now.... GO WILD!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BuckSutherland]

Buck, I'm trying to think what they all have in common and I can think of a few things but what are you eluding to? Did you not list McNabb for some reason?

Yep, forgot about him.

[BuckSutherland]

I gotta hand it to ya, at Least you are not afraid to wear your racism on your sleeve. Its good to be open about your true feelings, now we know how to judge your credibility on all of your other opinions.

I think this subject is done.

And Moon is one of the greatest QB's that ever played. Anybody who played Pro football has always said the same. A Hall of Famer to boot.

I also remember watching Cunningham play when I was growing up, not to mention 1998. It was an awesome display.

now.... GO WILD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why you say anything about race?? I am reffering to the ability to win big games. Those guys just so happen to make up a big junk of QB play in MN the last 20 years. I dont remember a single one of them EVER winning big games. At least Farve and Brad Johnson actually won big games in their careers. Too bad they werent with us.

Being a "great" QB is reserved for those that actually won a championship along with the stats. Good QBs accumulate stats and meaningless wins.

[DrJuice1980]

I kinda like you Buck, you make me chuckle at times. I can't stand behind you here. Brad Johnson was not a great QB. He wasn't even good. He made games soooo boring. His average stat line looked like this: 12/18, 165yrds, 1/1. I bet Teddy puts up similar numbers.

Why didn't you add Gus Ferrotte or Jeff George to that list?

[Hester]

I think we all know why he didn't add them to the list.

[BuckSutherland]

Another DE. At some point we better address the fact that we dont have a very good interior offensive line or a backup RB.

[thatoneguy]

Right. Because it's more important to replace Toby Gerhart than Jared Allen. Good call.

[PurpleFloyd]

Right. Because it's more important to replace Toby Gerhart than Jared Allen. Good call.

I thought that is why they signed Griffen.

[zepman]

Zimmer is going to get after these NFC Central QB's from

here on out!! Love it...It's been a LONG time since we've seen an attack style defense!

PurpleF....who replaced Griffen then??

We now know...Chrichton!!

[BuckSutherland]

Right. Because it's more important to replace Toby Gerhart than Jared Allen. Good call.

Boy your a real bright one arent you. We already replaced Allen with Griffen, then we add Barr to play some type of hybrid edge rusher as well. Meanwhile if Peterson goes down we have Matt Asiata and some practice squad guys to carry the load.

4 DE and 1 RB behind a terrible interior line. Be a miracle if Peterson can play the whole season without getting hurt.

[DrJuice1980]

I'm back with you Buck. We desperately need an OG and RB. One of those has to be off the board next.

[BuckSutherland]

I'm back with you Buck. We desperately need an OG and RB. One of those has to be off the board next.

I will take the guard now. At least we can protect what we have. We invested heavily in Peterson. At least we should give him a chance to make the first guy miss. Pretty sure Vlad Duccasse isnt gonna do that. Go with Yankey from Stanford.

[PurpleFloyd]

PurpleF....who replaced Griffen then??

On the bench?

[zepman]

Rotational...Zimmer likes to roll his D-Front to keep them fresh.

Chrichton is a beast and will be a great pick.

[PurpleFloyd]

Rotational...Zimmer likes to roll his D-Front to keep them fresh.

Chrichton is a beast and will be a great pick.

All fine and dandy but the secondary has so many holes it seems at this oint that many DE's is overkill.

[Nick Kuhn]

Code:

 Not a terrible pick IMO 

It is at #8.

You don't draft "raw" players or guys that "you can coach-up" at #9. SMH.

The only thing that is consistently true for GMs in the NFL draft is they incredibly over-inflate the value of early picks in the draft (see below). On a statistical basis, where you pick in the first round isn't tremendously important as long as you get the player you want. The biggest mistake you can make is trading away high picks (ala the Bills this year and the Redskins to get RG3) to move up a few places. How are the Patriots so consistently good despite almost always trading down? Well they figured this out before other teams did.

[FISHINGURU]

All fine and dandy but the secondary has so many holes it seems at this oint that many DE's is overkill.

Not really, your secondary doesn't need to be the greatest "IF" you can get constant pressure on the QB. The greatest CB's in the game will get burned if the QB has plenty of time.

This defense is going to be bringing the heat all the time, not once a game like the defense we have become accustomed to. Our lame Tampa 2 left everyone in coverage on an island because we only pressured with the front 4 and dropped everyone else into zones.

It's plenty obvious our plan is to get after these NFC North QB's.

[PurpleFloyd]

All fine and dandy but the secondary has so many holes it seems at this oint that many DE's is overkill.

[FISHINGURU]

It's a whole new defense now, the Tampa 2 was easy to shred when only bringing the front 4 and everyone else dropping into a zone, it was also so easy for opposing QB's to read.

We are going to a 4-3/3-4 hybrid defense now with guys changing positions and rotating. It will be nice to see a real defense, I won't have to change the channel to see one.

To beat the great QB's you have to knock them off their spot and pressure them, all of them look like Blunder when they start getting knocked around and hurried. With having so many guys and bringing pressure from different spots they won't know where it's coming from.

Brady,Peyton, Bree's, ect, all look horrible when they are getting pressured and knocked down.

I hear ya though, you still need guys that can cover but when bringing the heat you don't need them to cover for as long. I think Rhodes and Smith are going to have big seasons this year, Munnerlyn is going to be solid and bring that tough hard hitting mentality like Winfield did.

This defense is going to play fast and be physical, I think Zim can turn this thing around and make this unit a top 10 defense this season.

[PurpleFloyd]

I guess that I am not following you. The Dungy 2 defense you are berating was designed to stop the pass, not the run. It relies on getting pressure from the front 4 which is what you are proposing we are going to see from the front 4.

I hope you are wrong about using a hybrid defense. To me hybrid means you aren't committed to one or the other and it forces the coaches to teach and the players to learn multiple concepts which increases the odds of confusion and mistakes. I am more a fan of keep it simple and let the players natural talent shine without making them think about what they have to do.

Hopefully what they do will work but nearly 5 decades of experience has made me very skeptical.

[BuckSutherland]

I will take the guard now. At least we can protect what we have. We invested heavily in Peterson. At least we should give him a chance to make the first guy miss. Pretty sure Vlad Duccasse isnt gonna do that. Go with Yankey from Stanford.

And we land Yankey in Round 5. I saw him as 3rd or 4th in many prospects.

[DrJuice1980]

Solid pick that we needed bad. Now get incognito and our line looks pretty tough.

[FISHINGURU]

I guess that I am not following you. The Dungy 2 defense you are berating was designed to stop the pass, not the run. It relies on getting pressure from the front 4 which is what you are proposing we are going to see from the front 4.

I hope you are wrong about using a hybrid defense. To me hybrid means you aren't committed to one or the other and it forces the coaches to teach and the players to learn multiple concepts which increases the odds of confusion and mistakes. I am more a fan of keep it simple and let the players natural talent shine without making them think about what they have to do.

Hopefully what they do will work but nearly 5 decades of experience has made me very skeptical.

The part your not following is with the Tampa 2 you rely ONLY on the pressure of the front 4, and if the front 4 aren't getting pressure your zone gets shredded. The LB's drop into coverage they rarely came in on the blitz. All the guys pretty much lined up in the same spots and did the same thing every play.

Safties stay deep, CB's play zone, the LB's drop deep, and then trying to get pressure on the QB with ONLY the front 4. We let anyone do anything underneath they wanted as long as we kept everything in front of us.

I guess you like the guy lining up in the same spot doing the same thing every play. Did you also like Mustpukes playbook? That was nice and simple and not very confusing either.

It will be nice to see creative defensive plays that get all your best players on the field at the same time. Guys are going to have to learn multiple positions and techniques because Zimmer likes to rotate and move guys around, if they can't learn then they should just stay home.

In this system we will be bringing heat from everywhere not just the front 4, we will be bringing it with LB's, CB's, and S. A guy might be on the left side, right side, hand on the ground or standing up, he might be playing OLB or DE.

In a Hybrid you can still be commited to a 4-3 but you will still run a 3-4,46, flex, ect.

It is a relief we were pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball and now we will be just the opposite.

[PurpleFloyd]

First off you have zero clue how they are going to bring pressure because all you have to go on is vague references to what they might do based on random interviews and rampant speculation.

As far as the T2 pressure, sure,the primary pressure schematically is designed to come from the front 4 but it was certainly not exclusive. Did you never watch a game or has it just slipped your mind that our LBs and DBs had blitz assignments in the defense?

Do you not remember seeing Jared Allen, Kevin Williams and Griffen dropping into coverage while a LB or CB rushed? They also had blitz packages that brought DBs and LBs at the QB along with the front 4. Before you call me out on schemes make sure you have your stuff together.

Right now the scheme is going to be less crucial than the coaching. The coaching has been the weakest part of this team and while I hope it improves they are going to have to show it on the field.

[zepman]

Agree on the coaching but the key to any "scheme" is it's players. That's what we saw the Vikes try and fix this past weekend.

[FISHINGURU]

I actually do have a clue, all you have to do is watch what Zimmer has done with all his other players and defenses, just take a look at the type of players we just drafted to fit his scheme.

We must of watched different games because the Vikings rarely ever blitzed or changed their schemes. Sure they did a handful of times a game whoopity doo. Not only that they rarely play any other coverage besides zone...hey lets only rush the front 4 and have everyone else drop into zone 90% of the time and get shredded, or better yet lets drop Jared into coverage on 3rd down and bring some slow piestain LB on a blitz a couple times a game!! I also remember waiting all game for them to bring Winfield in on a blitz and he would smoke the QB and then we wouldn't ever do it again.

Gets pretty boring watching an offense doing the same plays over and over and we do nothing to change it or stop it. No such thing as adjustments with our old schemes on either side of the ball.

Change the channel sometimes and watch how a real defense plays and uses their weapons. You thought we were going overkill on DE's and I was just trying to explain why, sorry this won't be the defense you have loved for the past 10 years that just sits back and gets shredded weekly in the passing game.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Sorry Purple, but i have to agree with GURU on this one. There is a reason that pretty much every other team in the NFL has abandoned the cover 2. The other team knew what the vikes were gonna run before THEY knew what they were gonna run.

Id rather have a defense that switches up looks and personnel constantly and makes the opposing QB over think everything. Zimmer clearly likes rotating d lineman, i think thats why SPielman took so many DE's. Its worked for him too so i have no problem with it.

I bet your going to enjoy watching Zimmers "hybrid" d this year, wait and see. But then again, pretty hard to be any worse then Leslies d was last year. I think a chimpanzee in a vikings sweatshirt could have coached the defense better last year