Kluwe: Vikings assistant is a “bigot,” Frazier and Spielman “cowards”

[Canon Guy]

Quote:

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up

It’s about homophobia and employment law

Yep, at least in part.

[PurpleFloyd]

Older guys get dumped every day in the NFL...regardless of production. It's all based on their salary. I don't think you have to point at performance when explaining the release of a player one bit. Just too many other factors go in to a decision like that.

Someone earlier mentioned Winfield...great example of a guy who could definately still play but basically out-priced himself with his years of experience and salary expectations.

I could care less about this whole thing...just wish it/he would go away!!!

This^^^^

[hnd]

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 18, 2014, 9:29 PM EDT

The Chris Kluwe case is about a lot more than football. It’s about homophobia and employment law and the way our society is changing to become more tolerant of gays and less tolerant of those who espouse the types of anti-gay views that have long been commonplace in locker rooms.

But it is at least partially about football, and the part about football is the weakest portion of the memo released by the Vikings on Friday night. That portion is headlined, “Kluwe’s 2012 Statistics vs. Career Statistics,” and it attempts to make a case using statistics that Kluwe was declining as a punter. The attempt fails. Badly.

The statistical case against Kluwe begins like this: “Kluwe’s 12 fair catches in 2012 were the third fewest of his career, nearly 3 fair catches below his pre-2012 season average of 14.7. Also, Kluwe’s longest punt of 2012 – 59 yards – was 4 yards shorter than what he averaged during his first seven seasons in the NFL.”

Those are silly criteria by which to judge a punter. A decline in fair catches could easily be the result of a strategy to kick out of bounds, and judging a punter by his longest punt is downright foolish. Anyone who has even a vague understanding of football strategy understands that a punter’s job isn’t just to kick the ball as far as he can. Kluwe had several punts that could have been longer than 59 yards, except that Kluwe dropped them inside the 20-yard line instead of kicking them into the end zone. For instance, in the same game in which Kluwe booted that 59-yarder (Week One against Jacksonville), he also had a 53-yard punt to the Jaguars’ 12-yard line. If Kluwe had kicked that ball 12 yards farther, it would have been a 65-yard punt, his longest in five years. But it also would have been a worse punt because it would have been a touchback, rather than being dropped inside the 20.

The statistical case also criticizes Kluwe for not having enough punts downed inside the 20 — while conveniently overlooking that Kluwe also had the fewest touchbacks of his career. And the statistical case against Kluwe overlooks the fact that Kluwe punted just 72 times in 2012, his fewest punts in any of the seven seasons in which he played all 16 games. The reason, of course, is that Vikings running back Adrian Peterson had an MVP season in 2012, rushing for 2,097 yards. The Vikings didn’t punt as much as usual because they had a running back churning out first downs. And yet it’s supposed to be Kluwe’s fault that he didn’t get a lot of opportunities to down the ball inside the 20?

There’s no single statistic that can perfectly quantify a punter’s performance, and every punting statistic is affected by things outside the punter’s control like the quality of his coverage units and how often his team punts inside its opponents’ territory. But the best single stat to use for a punter is his net punting average. Kluwe had a career-high 39.7-yard net punting average in his last season with the Vikings. That fact is nowhere to be found in the memo released by the Vikings.

None of this is to say Kluwe wasn’t cut for his performance. You can make a strong case that Jeff Locke, the punter drafted by the Vikings to replace Kluwe in 2013, is a better punter than Kluwe. And he’s unquestionably a cheaper punter than Kluwe; he made $405,000 last year while Kluwe was slated to make $1.4 million. It’s entirely possible that the Vikings are telling the truth when they say they cut Kluwe solely for football reasons.

But the statistical case against Kluwe is weak. If that was the best that the writers of the memo could come up with, they should have left it out.

that was pure speculation and awful. Kluwe has never led in any category and has always jsut been a middle of the road punter. add in his replacement is just flat out better and cheaper. this guys' defense of kluwe's statistics is what is weak.

the reality is you can point to punters BETTER than kluwe getting dropped for younger counterparts ALL THE TIME. ones that aren't loudmouths. of course his activism also had something to do with it but he'll be hard pressed to prove its the sole reason like he's saying.

[LMITOUT]

If you are blacklisted in the league, how many jobs would you expect to hold?

I guess he should have thought of that consequence a few years earlier instead of crying about it now.

[CaptainMusky]

He obviously was thinking about the rammifications of saying something since he didn't say anything until he was released.

[zepman]

Kluwe's EGO is driving this whole thing...he thought he was "untouchable" and found out he wasn't.

I just wish he'd go away...I'd really like to throat punch this guy and I'm not an aggressive person.

[Slabasaurus]

Say what you will about Kluwe... the fact that the vikings are actually addressing this issue and the way they're doing it tells me there's probably something there.

what it is or how significant, i dunno. Not like I care too much. Kluwe made himself too expensive. Law of diminishing returns n whatnot. Yes, he's a good punter, but so are a lot of other cheaper options.

It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out. Despite some of y'alls wishes... it's not just gonna go away.

[Getanet]

Despite some of y'alls wishes... it's not just gonna go away.

I'd take that bet! Kluwe is waffling on his lawsuit and he and the Vikes are in "discussions." I don't think Kluwe expected some of his dirty laundry to be aired, and doesn't want more of it getting out.

With training camp soon to open the focus will quickly change to football anyway - position battles, Bridgewater's play, profiles on the new coach, new stadium updates...there are a lot of angles for the media to report on this year, much more than most.

My guess is the Vikes make a bigger donation to GLBT groups than their initial $100K offer, keep the 3 game suspension of Priefer, and this basically goes away in another week or two, maybe less.

[Scott K]

I have little doubt there is slander in locker rooms. It is a different atmosphere then in an office. I have my doubts it will ever change. Most good coaches are tough, hardasses, that scream in your face, it gets you pumped up to play games. If the coaches say something that gets you mad before a game, you take the anger out on the other teams.

There will always be someone that is offended by everything, if they want to make locker rooms little nanny meeting areas, where no one will offend anyone, I think the NFL will be suspending most of their players. Locker rooms are not meant for hugs, chatting, and gossip, they are there for big, badass guys, to prepare for a hard tough game.

[JP Z]

Well said Scott!! But of course with the way our society is they want everything EVERYWHERE to be all sunshine and lollipops all the time.

[Scott K]

I can understand how a punter cant take out his aggression on the other team, and let things bother him, especially someone as sensitive, and is as big of a drama queen as Kluwe. Maybe the answer is to not have punts in the game? Have it like grade school football.

[Canon Guy]

I have little doubt that since it's a slur against homosexuality,that makes it completely acceptable to some.

Were it a black coach speaking of whites, or a Jewish coach speaking of Christians, I believe that the reactions here would be different.

[Scott K]

I have little doubt that since it's a slur against homosexuality,that makes it completely acceptable to some.

Were it a black coach speaking of whites, or a Jewish coach speaking of Christians, I believe that the reactions here would be different.

LOL, have you ever been in a locker room in your life? Lots of racist comments are made in the locker room. As far as your comment about homosexuality, it being acceptable. Like you know me! I have friends, and family that are gay, and I support their decision to love who they want.

The whole problem is someone is too sensitive, and wants to make a big deal out of something, so he gets attention. (Drama Queen)

[CaptainMusky]

I have little doubt that since it's a slur against homosexuality,that makes it completely acceptable to some.

Were it a black coach speaking of whites, or a Jewish coach speaking of Christians, I believe that the reactions here would be different.

If the circumstances around the timing of reporting the claimed comments are the same I would fee exactly the same. You make it seem like we think its OK that Prieffer said what he said, no its not OK.

If those comments were race or religion based, that's not OK either and the recipient or witness to those comments didnt come forward until AFTER he was let go, I would feel the exact same way.

This doesnt condone what was said, its the nature of WHEN the complaint came out that is my problem with it.

[Canon Guy]

LOL, have you ever been in a locker room in your life? Lots of racist comments are made in the locker room. As far as your comment about homosexuality, it being acceptable. Like you know me! I have friends, and family that are gay, and I support their decision to love who they want.

The whole problem is someone is too sensitive, and wants to make a big deal out of something, so he gets attention. (Drama Queen)

I had a long response to this all ready to go and then I decided to delete it. I will just stick by previous post. If you don't believe the subject has anything to do with the response to it,then it is a waste of my breath.

[CaptainMusky]

Canon Guy, so, by your argument, if Prieffer were gay and he made statements about rounding up all the heteros and nuking them we would be up in arms about it?

You seem to think we support what was said. I dont believe I have heard ANYONE here say it was OK.

The problem with the whole thing is the fact that Kluwe is an attention whore. He is doing this for only personal gain, oh wait, he will donate any judgement to charity, big deal. He is only doing this to keep his name in the here and now.

His time to bring this forward was WHEN it happened. No ifs ands or buts about it. Timing is wrong and it proves what he is really after.

This has nothing to do with what his argument is about, just the manner in which he "decided" to bring it forward. Then all the tweets with idle threats? Seriously! He is acting like a 12 year old girl. Throwing a tantrum because he was getting defaced as well through the very report he was so adamant about seeing. His attorney requests that the entire report NOT be released, yet he wants it? Now they are holding off on the lawsuit? Hmmm...

He doesnt look good in all of this. The vikings/prieffer dont look good either, but he is taking a childish road to all of this.

[Canon Guy]

I brought up a couple of examples that I believe the reactions to would have been different and I stand by that.

I did not say everyone would react different, but I have seen over time on this site how some spew anti gay rhetoric without a peep being said.

Just remember that the coach is in a position of authority and made improper comments, which he could maybe get away with by apologizing,but he lied publicly about it.He also lied to those investigating the incident until he got caught lying. In most cases you lose your job after that.

It matters little to me that it look place in a locker room,in fact it does not matter at all.

I don't care at all about Kluwe or that he brought it up later. It still happened.

[CaptainMusky]

So kluwe apparently laughed at the joke according to loeffler. So which is it kluwe? Is it funny or are you offended?

He also lied. When initially asked about his mocking of the Sandusky case he said "I don't remember that situation". Only later to come out on twitter and say "yes, I did it once".

I also don't think its accurate to say if we would have lied we would be fired either. Without a proven track record of offenses I don't believe that's a fire able offense as does the vikings. Reprimanded? Yep, suspended without pay. And take sensitivity training. Seems about right to me.

[Canon Guy]

If you did something at your job and lied about it to the public,then lied again twice during the investigation regarding the subject, you believe you would still have a job?

I think lying 3 times about it is a proven track record.He would have continued to lie if not for the fact that it was confirmed by a player that he said it.

Kluwe is out of a job, which is fine by me. One more person should be out of a job, not necessarily for what he said but for his later handling of the situation.

[CaptainMusky]

I guess I dont see that as multiple offenses. You apparently do.

[DrJuice1980]

Way to many softies in the world today. I didnt know humans were born without a spine.

[Canon Guy]

To me that does not matter anyway.

The Vikings spend money to hire a independant investigator and he lied multiple times. That's when most people would lose a job.

[hnd]

when you do a good enough job at a position that only has 30 something slots available, you tend to get some leniency. thats life. i'm a sales manager. a million guys can step in and take my place if i do something like this. now whether preifer's is doing a good enough job to keep his position is another story in and of itself.

[FISHINGURU]

I have little doubt that since it's a slur against homosexuality,that makes it completely acceptable to some.

Were it a black coach speaking of whites, or a Jewish coach speaking of Christians, I believe that the reactions here would be different.

How about Ray Rice beating the tar out of his ol' lady and only getting suspended for 2 games? That's way more offensive then some coach joking about putting gays on an island and nuking them.

[Canon Guy]

You are stating the obvious.

[CaptainMusky]

Well does punishment fit the crime? If prieffer got 3 games, while rice gets 2 ????

[Canon Guy]

Well does punishment fit the crime? If prieffer got 3 games, while rice gets 2 ????

They are two separate situations. Rice getting off too easy has nothing to do with the Vikings situation.

[zepman]

Way to many softies in the world today. I didnt know humans were born without a spine.

Dead on Juice!!

It's pretty obvious it was a joke gone wrong....

If Kluwe didn't have a "stage" for this whole thing he could care less...he's an attention whore who thinks hes been done wrong. F him!!

Bottom line is this...if Kluwe is still punting for the Vikes...and cashing checks...this story never, and I mean NEVER, sees the light of day.

[Canon Guy]

If Kluwe didn't have a "stage" for this whole thing he could care less...he's an attention whore who thinks hes been done wrong. F him!!

You sound a bit angry.

I agree with your first sentence, but I might disagree with what you actually meant to say.

[FISHINGURU]

A lot of cry babies out there these days that's for sure. What ever happen to the sticks and stones saying? I don't understand why people get so offended and hurt off of words from another persons opinion. You have to be pretty weak minded to care what other people say or think about you or any group/race/religion/ect your involved in.