New Mille Lacs slot

[laportian]

I think the term commercial is used loosely by the band. They buy from their band members but I doubt that those walleyes make it to any restaurants though as that is pretty regulated by the state. Meaning that it has to be processed at a certified processing facility like Morey's or the Red Lake Fisheries plant. I'm not aware that Mille Lacs has such a facility. So I would bet one of my body parts that the fish the band buys goes right to other programs within the band, such as elderly nutrition programs, etc. They host all kinds of functions for various things and I would guess that they serve their own fish at. Anytime natives get together they eat. I would also dare say that the fish they do buy is strictly from their own band members, they will not spend their own money to benefit other members of other Ojibwe bands. That said out of the 70,xxx pounds netted last year a small portion is bought by Mille Lacs. Where does the rest go? Bootlegged out of trunks, some must get sold to the tribal govts from WI., and divided up amongst family groups from both here and WI.

I net and at times I have up to hundred walleyes in my freezer. My friends and family know they can come to me and request fish. Every time I go see one of my elder relatives I take a bag or two of fillets with as a gift. If anyone in my community asks me for fish for a wedding, wake, or gathering I give them fish. Around here a lot of people barter it. My snowmobile mechanic takes fish in trade, when I go duck hunting I gift my cousin, who's blind and boat we use, with fish. Your belief that it is all about lining our greedy little pockets and ruining the resource isn't true. Does that happen, yes I don't doubt it, but to assume that that is what were all about is not right.

[bturck]

LAPORTIAN: First of all let me tell you that I respect your posts and the information you have always contributed, that is not to say I agree with all of it, but we do agree jointly that we have the right to disagree. That being said let me pose a question to you. I don't believe that everyone is againist the right to net per se, that right was afforded under the treaties, however it seems that a huge majority, myself included take excecption to the netting during the spawning period. In a post on the Upper Red Lake site I posed that question, and your repsonse was that the Red Lake Band does not net during the spawn. So, what would be the impact if the Mille Lacs tribes also opted out of netting during the spawning season? Netting could still be done after that time and in open water, just as it is done on Red Lake. My feeling is the major issue being that netting during the spawn reduces the amount of spawning fish and its subsequent off spring which are the fish of the future. Again I do not intend to speak for everyone on this site, its just my question, and as always I respect your answers....

[CaptainMusky]

laportian, I didnt mean to paint all native americans with a broad brush so I apologize.

Its obvious from your many posts here that you do care and are a responsible person when considering the resource.

[Getanet]

It's only my opinion, but it's my belief that moving the timing of the netting will have no impact on the animosity between the bands and those against the netting. Too much anger built up to put out that fire. Net any other time of year and complaint will be anglers getting caught in the net.

Netting during the spawn likely does hurt in that it removes many of the male fish (the eaters). But anytime of year a female is removed, by any method, means she won't be around to breed the next year anyway.

[tfin]

two nations, two shares of the lake, two seperate agreements by those peoples on how their share can be taken.

I agree that fish taken out of the lake at any time don't spawn the next year but are there other problems that occur. I don't know if the netting damages the spawning area's or whether it affects the fish in other ways.

I believe both sides would want as productive a spawn as possible as total harvest limits would increase.

I also have to think that saying they shouldn't net during the spawn is equal to saying we shouldn't drag fish out of the lake once the water temp reaches levels that are hazardous to the fish that must be returned. Maybe the skinny fish are fish that didn't die but remain alive with damage.

There must be an acceptable level of loss to go along with the limits we set. No number of laws or agreements will ever keep us from dissatisfation. Acceptance of those laws or agreements and good natured debate on improving the health of the lake while adhering to them will.

[Kyhl]

LAPORTIAN, thanks for the feedback and insights. I find your insights helpful to understand this issue.

So what I gather from your comments, the fish are used as currency and gifts and not for direct income. That probably has not changed in hundreds of years.

Using it as currency is indirect income because it is basically printing money from a renewable resource that is coveted by most in this state.

I'm not sure what that means for the lake yet but it is good background for all of us.

I guess my first thought is, if you are using it as currency, what would be the difference between bartering fish for services versus paper money?

[DTro]

I really think cold hard cash is an appropriate way to settle this whole thing.  Why doesn’t the state make the tribes an offer?  Are the Natives not interested in doing that?

 

What if the state offered 50 million dollars to modify the treaty?   It wouldn’t totally nullify it, but amend it to clearly state that Native Americans must follow all state statutes and regs when exercising their fishing and hunting rights.  This would include slot and bag limits.

 

I bet most fisherman would be in favor of a $5 surcharge on their fishing license for 10 years to finally put this to rest.

 

 

I just threw out that 50 million number.  Maybe that’s too much.    Maybe too little.  I really don’t know

[laportian]

My take on the netting during the spawn is that I do not agree with it. Mille Lacs being Mille Lacs gets the dog craap fished out of it and I think the netting early solves two problems for the netters. One it keeps them out of everyone's hair and two it gets it done fast. Problem here is that it is during the spawn. Red Lake, Leech Lake, and the White Earth Bands all protect fish during the spawn. I personally have the belief that if a fish has made it that far we might as well let them do their business.

In our culture fish is a revered commodity if you will. We are very inter connected with it as it is part of who we are. Not everyone has the ability to go gather. Im able and have the resources to go do this. Meaning I have a boat, truck, and the cash on hand to throw the $100 in gas it takes to set and pull a couple nets.

But again back to the commodity part of it. The feds and state are really watching for any illegal activities regarding the sale of game fish. Im all for that too. If a guy nets a boat load of fish and goes and sells them to restaurants I think both parties should get strung up. I don't bootleg because what I have invested in my walleyes is more than I could sell them for. Plus getting caught and all would really suck. The way I value my fish is too high for bootleg prices anyway. The blackmarket price is $4 or $5 a fish. On a net set I have $100 in gas plus up to 10 or 12 hours of backbreaking work put into it. I take great pride it the fact that I'm the guy in my family that does this and I can not put a price on that. I know a lot of the dudes around here aren't above taking twenty bucks here and there for a bag of fish to help offset costs. Do I condemn them? No I get it.

[Gordie]

Using it as currency is indirect income because it is basically printing money from a renewable resource that is coveted by most in this state.

This is also what a lot of people seem to forget about.

[bturck]

Laportian: Once again your honest answer even though it does go againist the grain of an accepted practice is appreciated. If only the powers to be on both sides could sit down across the table and work out a solution. And as stated in other posts, the netting in and of itself is not the sole contributor to the outcome of Mille Lacs, but it does hit some real sore spots..and is a contributor to the overall picture. I equate it to shooting fawns in Sept, rather than allowing them to mature into harvestable venison during the regualar season...I know a fawn in Nov born in May/June is a puppy dog. It was just an analogy that you have to let the kids grow up if you want adults.....

[GravelBar]

 

What if the state offered 50 million dollars to modify the treaty?   It wouldn’t totally nullify it, but amend it to clearly state that Native Americans must follow all state statutes and regs when exercising their fishing and hunting rights.  This would include slot and bag limits.

 

I bet most fisherman would be in favor of a $5 surcharge on their fishing license for 10 years to finally put this to rest. 

 

I just threw out that 50 million number.  Maybe that’s too much.    Maybe too little.  I really don’t know

Dtro, I would agree to buying back the netting rights. It makes sense to me. I would however still allow the tribe to take 15,000 pounds a year so they could carry on their traditions.

[laportian]

The state does that with Leech Lake. They give us a percentage of some DNR licensing fees for not taking our full share on our rez waters. Might be a bit more complicated with the Mille Lacs deal because there are more bands involved.

[Bandersnatch]

So ya fish out all of the small 14-18 inch fish and then move the slot up to 18-20 without any effort to deal with hooking mortality at all.

Good job.

You are going to kill the lake, but Good Job.

[Walleyehooker]

ML used to seem like a big lake back in the day but these days with big boats and miles of nets it is really a small pond. It receives to much pressure from both and with a quota to deal with you are stuck targeting the same year classes of fish year after year and this is slowly destroying the lake.

[Walleyehooker]

I also don't know why they would go with a 18-20 slot and make even a bigger hole in the year classes. Not that they have many options other than shutting it down at this point. Maybe they figure if they wipe out the walleyes those dozen or so Crappies that are in there will have a banner hatch and it will be like URL was for Crappies in a few years. Then they can shut the lake down for walleyes and restock it.

[Red Miller]

I am not positive about the growth rates of walleyes in Mille Lacs, but it appears to me that they are targeting the same year class(es) that took a thumping last year. Not looking good for catching and keeping this year. Should still be good for catching and (releasing??)

[Stick in Mud]

I definitely see your point. It's important to note, though, that last we could keep ANY fish under 17''. Lots of guys, frustrated by not catching any 15-17'' fish, would keep 12, 13, 14 inchers. I don't know how fast fish grow, but conceivably those fish will now be safe.

[Mo Gator]

I think the reason for the 18-20 slot is because there aren't very many fish in the lake that size, so harvest will be really low. There are enough big females over that 20 inch mark to spawn, so we might as completely destroy those year classes currently in the 18-20 mark, right?

[ntrider]

I think the reason for the 18-20 slot is because there aren't very many fish in the lake that size, so harvest will be really low. There are enough big females over that 20 inch mark to spawn, so we might as completely destroy those year classes currently in the 18-20 mark, right?

Well then the less than 18" classes will have a chance to get there. Then there will be fish in 18-20, and so on. Too many years of not having a minimum size is also to blame for this. Either way everyone will need to sacrifice a little for a year or so. I guess sacrifice only if you want keepers. Kinda of funny because there are a ton of people complaining there arent any keepers and yet some of these people are the ones saying they only c&r. I cant keep it straight anymore.

[WalleyeBIZ]

Having the minimum finaly might help, but its gonna take 3 or more years to see the results! Only problem is the small ones get caught and the hook mortality will take its toll! They are agressive! Thousands of opinions and no real solutions, yet! Might just fish other lakes for a few years! Only problem is my son gets excited when we talk about heading to ML! He thinks it's like going to the ocean!lol

[ntrider]

as far as hook mortality on the small ones i guess i would hope that prior these small ones would have been in the frying pan and now they at least have a chance? I will still fish mille lacs but i like fishing bass and northern also. i actually plan to go up there more often this year now just because of the new slots for these fish.

[Musky Buck]

I'm with ya ntrider, this will be my 1st year of seriously fishing ML. 19 miles to Isle so I'm in. Maybe the accesses won't be such a zoo, then again lol....

[Red Miller]

I guess the point I was trying to make was: how many fish will we have to catch and release and/or kill to get the two keepers? 20...maybe 25. I forget what the estimated mortality rate was for catch and release (not that that has any bearing on reality). I know, worse in summer than spring but still. Wouldn't it have made more sense to just take two of any size and be done with it? Then go crappie, smallie, pike fishing.

[walleye29us]

YES

[Stick in Mud]

Wouldn't it have made more sense to just take two of any size and be done with it?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But if that were the case, "we" would hit our quota in a weekend or two.

[CaptainMusky]

I'm fitting all my Snell rigs with circle hooks this year to see how they work. Their use has shown to greatly reduce deep hooking in other species. It won't change the stress from removing them from deep bath tub water however.

[BlackArrow1]

Gonna put this post out there. Haven't been on this thread in awhile. I planned on netting and exercising my tribal rights as a Mille Lacs Band Member this year. I value our rights. I've never netted. But hearing the state of the lake I'm opting out. Once a healthy balance returns I plan to exercise within the healthy allotment takes. I respect many people's concerns. I've heard of other band members that are not taking part for the same reasons. Grain of salt maybe for die hard tribe opposing factions. Mostly I like to angle Mille Lacs. We can angle and keep any size. This is fine for me. I will exercise this. We will retain our rights, but I do agree a management plan restriction is good. I will harvest my angled fish a couple times this summer and be happy. I did hear angler quota outside of tribe was well over by far last year. Just posting my view as a member who values the quality of the lake.

[Old Dewjabber]

I did hear angler quota outside of tribe was well over by far last year.

I do not know about that? Most of who I talked with had a hard time finding keepers!

I do know for a FACT though, there WAS a lot of netted fish that was not weighed or counted last year!! A LOT!

[John Mickish]

Blackarrow1, thanks.

[RawHog]

Gonna put this post out there. Haven't been on this thread in awhile. I planned on netting and exercising my tribal rights as a Mille Lacs Band Member this year. I value our rights. I've never netted. But hearing the state of the lake I'm opting out. Once a healthy balance returns I plan to exercise within the healthy allotment takes. I respect many people's concerns. I've heard of other band members that are not taking part for the same reasons. Grain of salt maybe for die hard tribe opposing factions. Mostly I like to angle Mille Lacs. We can angle and keep any size. This is fine for me. I will exercise this. We will retain our rights, but I do agree a management plan restriction is good. I will harvest my angled fish a couple times this summer and be happy. I did hear angler quota outside of tribe was well over by far last year. Just posting my view as a member who values the quality of the lake.

I love this, If I could look you in the eye and shake your hand and say thanks right now, I would.