New Mille Lacs slot

[Chris Barlage]

mmm....maybe a mille lacs stamp? can only fish it & take if you purchased the stamp & proceeds go to restocking? so the only anglers that can harvest out are already helping to replace?

I was thinking the same thing, Maybe make it a voluntary deal like the walleye stamp. 100% of the money would go to stocking efforts on the pond. I dont think to many people would like seeing their money go into a natives net though. Its better than doing nothing though.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Why? Why spend the money trying to stock the best natural producing walleye lake in the state?

Come to a gotdang compromise already and let the lake fix itself naturally!!!

CLP = Curly Leaf Pond Weed

[merkman]

Why do some people spear northern pike through the ice?

And why do some people choose to ride motorcycles instead of cars?

.

[thatoneguy]

Why cant they just use a hook and line to catch their fish like I have to?

Did you cede land to the government in exchange for the continuation of fishing and hunting rights?

[Alagnak]

And why do some people choose to ride motorcycles instead of cars?

Better gas mileage for commuting/traveling when only one/two persons needs to be transported, power to weight ratio, more intimate driving experience not being enclosed like in most vehicles, better handling, fast, fun, 'cool', etc. I'm not sure what your point is in regards to this new ML slot- but here are a few reasons.

[northender]

Why cant they just use a hook and line to catch their fish like I have to?

Good question!

Does anyone here actually believe the intent of the 1837 treaty granting Native Amercians harvest rights at Mille Lacs was to give them more and exclusive harvest rights to the fish and game than the settlers/other citizens of the country?

Do you think or believe, the leaders of the U.S. government, meant and intended to allow the Native Amercians to be "above state regulations" as the tribes now believe and have been granted? Really? Was that the intent of the same people who wrote "all men are created equal"?

The answer my friends, is not blowin' in the wind. It is very obvious and right in front of everyone. Easily understood by all.

[Gordie]

I guess if I owned a business

I think I be alittle more active in trying to get those nets out of the lake

I know eddy tried for years then finally threw in the towel

so maybe it just isnt possable

it could be a deal where law enforcement needs to make it tougher for those wisc bands to come here and take over as in camping and cleaning fish in pulbic landing etc etc

follow the catch once its caught see where it actually goes

whats done with

see what they do with the rough fish they catch

just cuz they can net doesnt mean they dont have to observe the rest of the laws

are all there boats licensed in mn etc etc i'm sure they are not

or is it just a free for all over there

i dunno ...just a though

Even the ones with the handles and round hoops on the end that most all boats carry.

those nets take more fish than the others do so why not those?

[walleye18]

Come on now....the treaty was done in the 1800's. The native american had to spear and net with a torch and a spear - not with a Q-beam and a modern boat, etc, etc....

The point being, i have no problem with the native americans spearing, netting, etc - but do it for subsistance as was the intention of the treaty when it was written AND with the equipment used when it was written.

I fear Mille Lacs is going down the "same road" as many lakes in WI have gone down. It all did not start with the CLP....Mille Lacs started its down turn when the spearing and neeted started....Fact.

The regs started to change, the slots were shifted, etc - when the lake started to be neeted and speared.

[Red Miller]

Exactly northender! IMO one the main root causes of the problem is that the entire perception of the "treaties" is flawed. The American Indian never "owned" any land in the first place. Just a little research reveals that the natives of North (and South) America had been at war with each other for hundreds of years killing and taking each others possessions and territories. The Iroquois built a society around war. The Crow were constantly at war with the Lakota, and Cheyenne. The Aztecs subjugated other tribes by military force alone, and even instigated revolts in order to have an excuse to capture members of other tribes for sacrifices.

Another graphic example of what has been ignored is the destruction and massacre of the Illinois at the hands of the Iroquis confederacy, not to mention the total destruction of several Huron villages.

The Europeans were just that last ones to be involved with what was a legacy of so called "imperialism" among the natives of this continent. The true stories are still never told in school in the interest of political correctness. Unfortunately, political and judicial decisions are made based on this "correctness" and not reality.

[walleye18]

Good point on nets in boats...I dont know about your, but mine cant hold tens, if not hundreds of fish.

Why does one culture get to do what they want to the resource over the others? Kinda reverse discrimination...right?

Good debate. I respect everyones view.

[northender]

In recent weeks, I have read the following on various sites. Time to take notice?

"Here is what the DNR reps have not said to anyone...could their own info be wrong and not lead to an end?

Based on DNR info supplied in recent weeks-looking forward:

--approx. 1 million pounds of adult walleyes in the lake now

--average size about 3 lb.s

--equates to around 350-400,000 adult walleyes in the lake now

--no good year classes left from ‘09, ‘10, ‘11 and ‘12. ( based on whatever guesses/studies one might take---will the ‘13 hatch be around next year or 4-5 years from now to be at least 15-16” long?—no sound reason to believe that with all the big fish still there)

--conservative estimates of harvest for 2013 and beyond for the next 5 years (unless regs change) is as follows:

1. Tribal harvest at 40K lbs. per year at an average of 2lbs per fish = 20K walleyes

2. total sport angler harvest at 150K at an average 3lbs. ( 20” long)+ 50K walleyes

3. total fish killed per year---70K

4. no year classes coming up?

5. 5 years looking ahead? Walleye gone from Mille Lacs

Based on actual info from the Mn. DNR in recent weeks, THAT is reality unless changes are put into place asap....and is NOT debatable based on present plans that are in place for 2013. That is using the “if’ the tribe and sport anglers don’t reach quota’s or beyond. If they/we do...the years you have fish left shrink.

Is the above equation wrong? We hope so....but it seems hard to not believe, right? Time to act now or wait and see if it is right?"

[Red Miller]

I would say yes its probably wrong. There are too many broad generalizations that are only partially true if at all. It still points to some slim years ahead but if the lake were left to its own, (i.e. get the nets out, get rid of the stupid slots) it would recover. Its a walleye factory after all.

[walleye18]

Red Miller.....your spot on! Agreed.

[northender]

I would say yes its probably wrong. There are too many broad generalizations that are only partially true if at all. It still points to some slim years ahead but if the lake were left to its own, (i.e. get the nets out, get rid of the stupid slots) it would recover. Its a walleye factory after all.

It actually says "unless changes are put into place". So if there are changes put into place, it surely could be wrong. But if the status quo stays in place. Then what?

[thatoneguy]

Come on now....the treaty was done in the 1800's. The native american had to spear and net with a torch and a spear - not with a Q-beam and a modern boat, etc, etc....

The point being, i have no problem with the native americans spearing, netting, etc - but do it for subsistance as was the intention of the treaty when it was written AND with the equipment used when it was written.

Right. And the 2nd Amendment applies only to muskets and blunderbusses, and the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to email, TV, radio etc.

[thatoneguy]

Does anyone here actually believe the intent of the 1837 treaty granting Native Amercians harvest rights at Mille Lacs was to give them more and exclusive harvest rights to the fish and game than the settlers/other citizens of the country?

Do you think or believe, the leaders of the U.S. government, meant and intended to allow the Native Amercians to be "above state regulations" as the tribes now believe and have been granted? Really? Was that the intent of the same people who wrote "all men are created equal"?

The answer my friends, is not blowin' in the wind. It is very obvious and right in front of everyone. Easily understood by all.

Well, since treaties are on par with the Constitution as the law of the land, the answer to that would be yes. Study up. Google "supremacy clause" for a starting point.

[DTro]

I just don't get why people are just willing to forget everything about historical treaties so that they can catch an eater walleye.

For arguments sake, let say the Cherubic dude over in North Korea is successful in his plan and then later invades and occupies the US.

We as a nation fight back and finally after years of death and massacre we come to a peaceful agreement with him that we get to keep some of our land and fish and hunt like we do now, and maybe do certain things we are accustomed to.

Perhaps some of your family members were killed fighting for this.

Wouldn't you fight with everything you have to protect what was agreed upon and pass it down to the next generations, even if the occupiers didn't agree with your method?

I know I would...

[thatoneguy]

Exactly, Dtro.

[northender]

I just don't get why people are just willing to forget everything about historical treaties so that they can catch an eater walleye.

For arguments sake, let say the Cherubic dude over in North Korea is successful in his plan and then later invades and occupies the US.

We as a nation fight back and finally after years of death and massacre we come to a peaceful agreement with him that we get to keep some of our land and fish and hunt like we do now, and maybe do certain things we are accustomed to.

Perhaps some of your family members will killed fighting for this.

Wouldn't you fight with everything you have to protect what was agreed upon and pass it down to the next generations, even if the occupiers didn't agree with your method?

I know I would...

So you are saying, for the sake of exercising rights, ruining a natural resource and ruining an economy that supports thousands of good people, even if there is no proof of need for those rights to be used for the sake of subsistence, is justified and everyone should bow to those rights? Is that what you are saying? Really? Wow.

How is that in any fashion compared to being an American in the sense you describe above? Do you really believe Amercians would or should act this way in any case let alone the one playing out at Mille Lacs?

Is that attitude what you want to "pass down to the next generations"? Wow.

[walleye18]

Good rebuttal Northender.

Not picking sides....good debate going on here.

I really find it hard (as stated in prior posts) to support a reckless action of a resource - such as the spearing and netting that is occurring on the lake.

I do support the netting and spearing IF done in the same practice when the treaty was signed....canoes and torches, etc...

Now, on the flip side, one could argue that us Americans should go back to wooden boats and no depth finder, modern fishing poles and technology we use. Just saying.

[DTro]

It doesn't matter what we think. The agreement was made. We should appreciate the fact we are able to fish the lake at all.

I don't see people with pitchforks and torches at the shores of Lower Red complaining they cannot fish there.

Have the Natives used these right to make a statement? I think they have, but its about the only place they have a voice.

If this water was solely theirs, how much you want to bet they would take a little better care of it?

[Alagnak]

"So you are saying, for the sake of exercising rights, ruining a natural resource and ruining an economy that supports thousands of good people"

Well, first this would have to be proven to happen. lol

1. Tribal harvest at 40K lbs. per year at an average of 2lbs per fish = 20K walleyes

2. total sport angler harvest at 150K at an average 3lbs. ( 20” long)+ 50K walleyes

Like I said- look in the mirror walleye freaks. Who's nets are taking more fish? You don't know the exact number taken home in gill nets and you also don't know the real number going home in people's guts, delayed mortality, under truck seats, and in ice castles. ;-/

I would bet there is a higher percentage of DNR enforcement per walleye netters vs anglers.

[GravelBar]

I wonder what the number of fish per netter is compared to the number of fish per angler?

[Alagnak]

I wonder what the number of fish per netter is compared to the number of fish per angler?

Please explain why that matters. I must be missing something. If 60 native americans net 20,000lbs for X amount of people to use or 60,000 sport fisherman kill 70,000lb for X amount of people to use I don't see why it matters or what your point is. My point is who's nets are killing more fish? The ones that say Frabill on them.

In each case there are people who are physically abled and skilled to do so and are going to give fish to others who are not.

[GravelBar]

And the nets are going to target the 14 to16 inch walleyes again!

[Alagnak]

And the nets are going to target the 14 to16 inch walleyes again!

Well they could certainly change the mesh size to allow every fish under 24'' to go through and only get the 24'' +. I'm sure nobody would b*t*h about that!

[northender]

All I can say, and will not say anymore here, is the majority of people in this state and especially the people's lives that depend on Mille Lacs walleyes would laugh(and cry) at your attitude and logic. To say the least, your attitude and logic is a disgrace to the majority of Native Americans that live at Mille Lacs and across Minnesota and beyond. Same for you DTro.

And one can wonder why many are down on Band members? Pretty clear now.

[MaxGoldman]

So you are saying, for the sake of exercising rights, ruining a natural resource and ruining an economy that supports thousands of good people, even if there is no proof of need for those rights to be used for the sake of subsistence, is justified and everyone should bow to those rights? Is that what you are saying? Really? Wow.

How is that in any fashion compared to being an American in the sense you describe above? Do you really believe Amercians would or should act this way in any case let alone the one playing out at Mille Lacs?

Is that attitude what you want to "pass down to the next generations"? Wow.

I think DTro's point was simple in just putting yourself in someone else's shoes, something you don't find often anymore sadly. Like everything they went through to have what they do now, and that if we went through all of that today, we d@m sure wouldn't want to give up any of it, so why would they?

[Alagnak]

LOL. What the heck are you talking about and who besides Dtro are you actually referring too? Are you drunk on walleye milt again?

To say the least, your attitude and logic is a disgrace to the majority of Native Americans that live at Mille Lacs and across Minnesota and beyond. Same for you DTro.

And one can wonder why many are down on Band members? Pretty clear now.

[walleye18]

why not open up the operation of casinos to be state run instead of just all native american? why do the native americans need the walleye netting/spearing to survive? Give me a break.

The casinos bring the tribe millions of $$ - that is tax free. Plus they get federal $$ from us.

Some 20 plus years ago, the mystic lake casino members were making over $500k per year per member average...all ages (star trib front page)

Again, why ruin a fantastic fishery by netting and spearing? They dont have to do it but still do....

really too bad we all cant get this right......another lake that is doomed since the start of spearing and netting.

Oh, forgot to mention that Red Lake was "crushed" by the same tactic. Yes, spearing and netting caused its demise from the commercial operation that was going on up there - until the people of MN and the DNR decided to stock it. Numbers of walleyes are up but they will decline again as the walleye commercial operation kicks in full gear. We will see its numbers fall again....vicious cycle.