Scopes for ML's

[lichen fox]

I contacted my rep....he authored the bill...I told him he worded it wrong...it should have said..."all muzzleloaders..."must have" scopes" when hunting the muzzleloader season... Now, if the shoe's on the other foot, and you're forced to hunt the way someone else wants you to, will you not hunt, hunt less, or move to a state that only allows flintlocks? It's all "opinion", that's correct...and the truth is, that it will help "some" on wounding game...but in reallity, 80% of hunters can't hit a deer at 150 - 200 yards with a high power centerfire rifle, so allowing scopes will in no way have any significant impact as far as harvest or the amount of hunters in the field during the muzzy season. This topic is not just about "opinion"...it is, like many others... about "greed"...

[Musky Buck]

I agree fox, I'm tired of people saving their tag in the name of greed, saving it for ML season, now they can ram on a scope, wonderful.

[TruthWalleyes]

I am excited to use my muzzleloader during shotgun season with a scope. I've never put a deer behind the crosshairs of a scope before, always shot them with iron sites. Got a new muzzy before last season and a scope to go with it, will need to get a quick detatch and start sighting it in soon. Kind of excited to use that muzzy with a scope this year.

Ended up taking my deer last year with a bow.

[NoWiser]

In my opinion, the muzzy season was intended to give a small percentage of people a high quality hunt. They did this by restricting it to using only a "primitive weapon" with no scope, effectively creating a handicap that was not acceptable to most people. That small percentage of people really got the screw job when they opened it up to everyone. I will be contacting my representatives tonight to let them know what I think.

To say you should allow scopes for a more clean, ethical shot is ridiculous in my opinion. If you can't make a clean shot at 80 yards with open sights, then don't shoot at a deer 80 yards away. If you can't get closer than that, then tough luck. Maybe we should allow unscoped muzzleloaders during archery season because it's hard to make a clean shot at 40 yards with a bow for most people, but it's easy with a muzzy and open sights?

The problem is that everybody thinks they are entitled to everything. Sometimes life just doesn't work that way and you need to make a choice, one thing or the other. Even though I've muzzy hunted and rifle hunted the same year in the past, I wouldn't be opposed to picking either one or the other. And, if they are going to allow scopes on a muzzleloader, effectively making them a rifle, you should definitely have to choose one or the other.

That's my opinion, at least....

[ANYFISH2]

In my opinion, the muzzy season was intended to give a small percentage of people a high quality hunt. They did this by restricting it to using only a "primitive weapon" with no scope, effectively creating a handicap that was not acceptable to most people. That small percentage of people really got the screw job when they opened it up to everyone. I will be contacting my representatives tonight to let them know what I think.

To say you should allow scopes for a more clean, ethical shot is ridiculous in my opinion. If you can't make a clean shot at 80 yards with open sights, then don't shoot at a deer 80 yards away. If you can't get closer than that, then tough luck. Maybe we should allow unscoped muzzleloaders during archery season because it's hard to make a clean shot at 40 yards with a bow for most people, but it's easy with a muzzy and open sights?

The problem is that everybody thinks they are entitled to everything. Sometimes life just doesn't work that way and you need to make a choice, one thing or the other. Even though I've muzzy hunted and rifle hunted the same year in the past, I wouldn't be opposed to picking either one or the other. And, if they are going to allow scopes on a muzzleloader, effectively making them a rifle, you should definitely have to choose one or the other.

That's my opinion, at least....

+1, well said.

I say NO to scopes for muzzy season.

I own a inline and would choose to use a scope if allowed. I do however, think scopes go against the original purpose of a seperate season for muzzy. I do not agree that anyone is trying to force others to hunt thier way, just trying to keep season from expanding and losing it's identity/tradition.

[TruthWalleyes]

I hunted Archery, Firearms, Muzzy...was selective, patient, and shot 1 deer in 2012. Did i ruin someone elses hunt in the process by hunting too many days, or by carrying my rifle in the woods one day, and a bow the next, and a muzzy the next? Never firing any of them except the bow on the last weekend of muzzy season? Or if i had a scope on my gun, does that ruin your hunt? Or possibly make mine more enjoyable?

Don't recall stepping foot in any state land this year. Though typically i will spend some time on public lands. Scope/No Scope, Firearm, Muzzy, Bow..What's the difference? I'm Hunting deer ethically, for the meat, for a clean kill, and for the enjoyment of the outdoors as well as trying to pass the sport onto my daughter as my father passed it onto me.

At the end of the day, i just want to hunt deer, and will take my time doing so if allowed, hunt every season if allowed.

Maybe we should force people to pick either Archery, Firearms, or Muzzy season....I'd probably pick Archery ONLY because it is the longest season. I don't care what i use to harvest a deer, it's the enjoyment of the process.

Rant over.

[lakevet]

In my opinion, the muzzy season was intended to give a small percentage of people a high quality hunt. They did this by restricting it to using only a "primitive weapon" with no scope, effectively creating a handicap that was not acceptable to most people. That small percentage of people really got the screw job when they opened it up to everyone. I will be contacting my representatives tonight to let them know what I think.

To say you should allow scopes for a more clean, ethical shot is ridiculous in my opinion. If you can't make a clean shot at 80 yards with open sights, then don't shoot at a deer 80 yards away. If you can't get closer than that, then tough luck. Maybe we should allow unscoped muzzleloaders during archery season because it's hard to make a clean shot at 40 yards with a bow for most people, but it's easy with a muzzy and open sights?

The problem is that everybody thinks they are entitled to everything. Sometimes life just doesn't work that way and you need to make a choice, one thing or the other. Even though I've muzzy hunted and rifle hunted the same year in the past, I wouldn't be opposed to picking either one or the other. And, if they are going to allow scopes on a muzzleloader, effectively making them a rifle, you should definitely have to choose one or the other.

That's my opinion, at least....

Very well said

lakevet

[fr0sty]

I emailed the DNR asking if they had any info on the origins of Minnesota's muzzle loader season. Here is the reply I received.

We don’t really have records regarding the specific intent of the season; however, the season was established in 1977 on designated state lands focused around the Lac qui Parle and Big Stone areas. As I understand, it bubbled up from regional interest and started out as a “traditional” or “primitive” option but there was never any specific language focusing on a primitive season. It was early enough after the 1971 deer season closure that the harvest was still fairly conservative and MZ hunters/harvest was fairly low. So, the muzzleloader season was not originally established for deer management purposes; it was an additional opportunity. However, it has evolved and is a management tool at this point.

[lakevet]

"Traditional" or "primitive" weapons were all that was commercially available until 1985 and the intro of knight's inlines.

So in setting up the season no one thought there was any need to write precise regs regarding definition of a muzzleloader, or what entailed a primitive or traditional experience season.

Now it is a "management tool" with "new and improved technology".

lakevet

[skee0025]

That small percentage of people really got the screw job when they opened it up to everyone.

How does the equipment used by others screw you or anyone else over? Thats like saying that allowing compound bows during archery season screws over those using recurves. It does not, will not and can never effect how you choose to hunt.

[fr0sty]

For those that want the season to be a primitive season, would you choose to hunt it if you were restricted to flint lock and round ball/patch? No modern inline, modern powders and sabots? I am sure some would, but I suspect the greater number of current ml hunters wouldn't.

How are those that want scopes on muzzleloaders any more greedy than the so called traditional hunter that uses other modern conveniences (inline, modern powder, sabots) when the ml hunt today? Seems the same to me.

For me it would be no skin off my teeth if the season went that way. Would I be disappointed? Sure. I like the option to be more selective during the firearms season knowing I can hold off any maybe get something during the ml season. I am not concerned with the hunt being traditional or not.

Would I use a scope if they were allowed? 50/50 I like the simplicity of open sites, but also like the clarity of a scope. He11, I hunted the rile zone for 2 years with a smooth bore 12 gauge (no scope) before I bought my current rifle. I was confident between 50-70 yards with that gun, and that's the shots I took. Scope or no scope won't change how risky a shot I will take. I am conservative in that regard, and wait until I have a high percentage killing shot available.

I know someone who regularly wounds and loose animals during the archery season. He rarely practices, so it's no surprise it happens. That type of hunter will always wound an loose animals during any season and with any weapon, scope or no scope. Conscientious hunters will be just the opposite.

In the end, I will follow whatever the state allows for seasons, as I suspect most of you reading this will.

Happy hunting!

[Jameson]

From Senator Ingebrigtsen's week in review e-mial:

"...On Wednesday the committee debated and passed the Game & Fish Bill after removing controversial restrictions on sand mining in southeastern Minnesota. Also passed was the non-controversial Lands Bill which will authorize counties around the state to sell or exchange a number of publicly owned parcels that are better suited to be in private ownership. In that bill I was able to attach an amendment which allows scopes on muzzleloaders for the muzzleloader season

[fishin58]

From Senator Ingebrigtsen's week in review e-mial:

"...On Wednesday the committee debated and passed the Game & Fish Bill after removing controversial restrictions on sand mining in southeastern Minnesota. Also passed was the non-controversial Lands Bill which will authorize counties around the state to sell or exchange a number of publicly owned parcels that are better suited to be in private ownership. In that bill I was able to attach an amendment which allows scopes on muzzleloaders for the muzzleloader season

Has there been any recent updates?

[Jameson]

No, but looking at the 2013 regs it looks the same as usual, no scopes except for those with a disability permit.