Name the last good QB the Vikings drafted and developed.

[otterman91105]

It's not ponder. I think we need to make a change. Just not helping us enough.

[aanderud]

The way Dallas is playing, I'm thinking Romo might be available next year. I'm not saying he's the best, but he can win games. This ponder experiment has to end, and fast -- and I'd prefer not to spend 3 more years of AP's career developing a rookie that may or may not pan out from the upcoming draft.

[hockeybc69]

Frazier has stated that Ponder is his starter still.... good grief.

[nofishfisherman]

I've defended Ponder a fair bit but my patience is nearing its limits. Poor decisions and poor throws and he's just not improving at all.

Also no matter what we do at QB we need to upgrade the WR spot. ZERO catches by a wr until 3 minutes left in the game is inexcusable. You also can't put that all on Ponder. Even a bad QB can get the ball to an open receiver a few times a game. No one is getting open and when they do they drop the ball.

At this point I'd entertain the idea of Romo. He'd be an upgrade even with his mental midget moments. At least he can keep a defense honest. Imagine AP running against a team who has to honor the pass even a little.

[hockeybc69]

Alex Smith??

Heck, Joe Webb.... Ponder was a lost puppy today. The look in his face when they zoom in on him, he just looks panicked/lost...

[Scott K]

And when he does throw to a WR, he looks at the WR from the snap, then throws this godawful airball. That is off target.

[BartmanMN]

I feel bad for AP after his stellar performance was squandered by Ponder. Man was I PO'd when he threw that lazy pick. Wow! I'm not a TV screamer, but was on that play.

[fishersofmen]

Enough with the Romo nonsense! Can't we ever learn? He has shown what he is capable of, nothing. Everytime they show his face on tv I feel like I need to take a shower.

I don't know what is causing Leslie to be so dang stubborn with this guy but he is going to lose his job because of it.....unless this "Ponder is our guy" garbage is coming from the top. Lets not forget this is Spielman's guy.

[MontanaMax]

If you watch higlights of Manning and Brady in the pocket you can see them reading the coverage and instantly firing the ball when they see what they want. Most of the time their receivers do what they expect to get open when they have the coverage that makes them the 1st receiver. Watch these quarterbacks progress through reads and the fractional instant they see the next is covered or open they immediately move to the next receiver or fire the ball. Watch Ponder and it's clear he can't read and fire ON TARGET like is needed from quarterbacks in this league. Yes he looks better against prevent soft zone but that doesn't work most of the game. The way he locks on first receiver means he will never find a receiver down field without help over the top. Better receivers in all positons would help but I don't see him getting to elite status no matter how good his receivers get. Watch Rodgers, manning and Brady and they all put the ball on the receiver's hands when they have as little as a 1/4 step on the man-to-man defender. Ponder has shown he can't do this in a game situation, even though he does it regularly in proactice. This is why the coaches and other players have hope and faith but this is becoming a mental block Ponder isn't getting through.

[Musky Buck]

There's the issue firing the ball he nurses it toward his target, no wonder they looked so covered the ball takes an eon to get there, I defended him, but to come out of a bye week and play poorly, to look no better a year later so it wasn't the short mini camps etc., the excuses aren't there anymore, Weeden, Luck, RG3, Kaepernick, etc. I'm just thankful we took Troy Williamson and Eramus James ahead of Aaron Rodgers, thank heavens.

[CANOPY SAM]

In all this discussion I think Musky18 nailed it on the head. Say what you will, but all successful quarterbacks need a strong team surrounding them.

Ponder has been making mostly decent throws...all things considered. Being constantly pressured in the pocket is bound to cause some gun shyness, and eventually some bad decisions, errant throws, INT's.

Yesterday, our receivers, and I think that term is used loosely with the Vikes, really struggled to get open. The pass coverage that GB put up was really good.

Last week CP put a number of good passes in the hands of our receivers, and they responded by NOT catching the ball.

I still put bank on Ponder. But we've got to put good players around him. It's a mutual trust thing with a lead QB and his team. I don't think it's there right now with the Vikes, and it's not likely to click this year without more talent.

But don't trash the guy before he's given the opportunity to grow...with a GOOD TEAM. With AP, Harvin, a couple reliable, fast receivers, and a stronger offensive line, Ponder could produce some good stuff. Heck, he's only been out there for about one season worth of games.

I would say the Vikes need to invest money in players before they invest in a sports complex.

I've always questioned Minnesota's ability to recruit greatness. I honestly believe they got very, very lucky with Adrian Peterson. But it all boils down to the whole package.

[FutbolGuru]

Ponder, Musgrave, Wrs - all are below average and collectively contribute in making us the worst passing attack in the NFL. This has been blatently obvious over the last several weeks. That said, I put Sunday's loss on Frazier. AP carries the team into the redzone and, week after week, they choose to put the ball in Ponder's hands when in a position to put points on the board. Ponder shouldn't have thrown the picks this week, but it's on our coaching staff that they continue to force the pass in critical situations vs playing to their strengths and keeping the ball on the ground.

[Bobby Bass]

I am beginning to think Ponder is playing hurt, no zip on his passes and no spring in his step. If you are going to try and win with the run then I would like to see Webb in there at the goal line running the option, that guy is being wasted just holding the clipboard.

[Musky Buck]

Who's to really say, is Ponder really any better than Joe Webb is he really ? Maybe maybe not, lets be careful with putting better people around him because we know if Tom Brady were here we'd be in the dance discussion. I'll say that AP is as good a back as there has ever been, look at todays speed of the NFL, the creases in the running game are skinnier than they ever have been, what was there only 4 or 6 guys in the NFL last season that averaged over 15 carries a game, he's the best which should make any QB better, against us yes we do run the ball and you better honor it. Play action should work. I think it's just Viking Football. Have we heard 1 word out of Zygi Wilf ? Is he alive ? I almost thought Ponder might say at his press conference it's time to go with Joe Webb, if Ponder were a pitcher he'd have a lame arm or something, someone smoke him in practice, he needs some time off, his confidence is gone, his arm is weak, Leslie ate Rolaids all night I heard, chewed em up like pop rocks.

[aanderud]

His arms strength does seem a bit off, doesn't it. How far short was that ball to AP down the left sideline? Geez, that would have been a potential game changer right there. AP running away from a linebacker in coverage.

[Antero]

His arms strength does seem a bit off, doesn't it. How far short was that ball to AP down the left sideline? Geez, that would have been a potential game changer right there. AP running away from a linebacker in coverage.

Especially if he catches it....

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I am beginning to think Ponder is playing hurt, no zip on his passes and no spring in his step. If you are going to try and win with the run then I would like to see Webb in there at the goal line running the option, that guy is being wasted just holding the clipboard.

He always throws like a girl. He never puts any zip on any passes. Hes not injured, he just has the arm of a canadian football league QB.

This was a gigantic swing and a miss by spielman, i dont know how he worms his way out of this one and still keeps his job as GM

[zepman]

That's just it...he can't or shouldn't worm his way out of it. MAN UP and just admit a mistake was made on him. It's certainly not the first time a QB has been taken in the 1st round and not played up to expectations.

The sooner the better.....

[Musky Buck]

There are times when you have to Dan Marino the ball into a tight window, he needs time off, Joe Webb likely isn't a long term answer but we need a kick in the shorts, the new guy to play hard for, I think guys are realizing if we get behind we're done and it's hard to get ahead, don't give up on him no, but it's obvious especially on the road he aint road ready.

[SkunkedAgain]

...Joe Webb likely isn't a long term answer but we need a kick in the shorts, the new guy to play hard for...

Wait...What?!? Let me get this straight. We all know that the playoffs are out of the question. What does putting Joe Webb into the game do to help the Vikings if he's not the long term answer? It might make Musky Buck feel better while watching a game, but it doesn't help the Vikings get better.

- Minnesota spent a first round pick on Ponder. Like it or not, the decision was made and it does not appear to be working out. The real question is do you park him now or make absolutely double-sure that he is garbage.

- The Vikings gave Ponder less than one year to prove whether he can win in the NFL. That's not much time

- The Vikings are better off playing Ponder to confirm his abilities and, hopefully, increase their spot in the draft. Whether they use the higher pick or parlay it into multiple picks is a front office decision. Playing Webb right now only diminishes the future

- I'm still a firm believer that the Vikings and the majority of its fan base are at fault. Ponder was not Cam Newton or even Andy Dalton last year. He certainly wasn't to the caliber of Andrew Luck or RG3. At best he was a late first rounder similar to Russell Wilson. However, Russell Wilson wowed his team into a starting job. There was no sign of this during the short 2011 preseason. There was, and still remains, no reason to believe that Ponder didn't need WHAT MOST quarterbacks in the NFL need, which is a year or two on the bench to learn the position. Pointing at 1st round quarterbacks that are obviously more talented than Ponder does not make a sound argument. Now you've all seen how good the "you only learn by playing the game" statement is as well. Ponder needed, and still needs, time to learn on the bench. He will never get that afforded to him in MN now

[MUSKY18]

So....answer me this. Through the firt 4 weeks of the season, Ponder had one of the highest passer rating's in the NFL. He was moving the ball. They were calling short, quick routes which were gaining positive yards and keeping the offense moving down the field. Then all of a sudden, they quit calling those plays anymore. Now its AP run or throw some ill attempt down the sidelines. Ponder doesn't have a strong enough arm to heave the ball 45 yards down the field to hit the WR in perfect stride. He proved that with that duck he tried throwing to AP last Sundady. What happened to the slants, quit hitters that he was connecting with. Musgrave figured that he had those throws mastered and he wanted to work on some other weaker areas of Ponders throwing arm during the games? Although I am still on the band wagon (falling off fast tho), I believe that the coaches/play calling are more to blame than anything. We haven't had a great O coordinator since Brian Billick left to go coach the Ravens.

[nofishfisherman]

Not having Percy in there makes those quick hit slants a little harder.

I was a Ponder bandwagon guy and wanted to see him get his chance but if I have to see one more 20 yard rainbow of a throw I might throw the remote at the tv in hopes of showing Ponder how to fire a fastball in there.

[pikestabber]

I agree that Harvin on the sidelines isn't helping matters at all. I think Harvin catching so many behind the line "high percentage" passes early on did two things...one, it padded Ponder's completion %, and two, it did establish a rhythm and helped his confidence in attempting (a few) longer balls. I don't understand why they don't attempt to use Jarius Wright in the same type of manner until Harvin is back? It can't hurt. I agree that Musgrave is just atrocious, although I did like the AP as a WR play call, and that was gone for 6 if Ponder got the ball to him.

[PurpleFloyd]

The defenses have tightened up their coverages and the windows for a completion are smaller than they were at the beginning of the year.There are two ways to fix that- One is to throw the ball farther down the field so the defense can't compress their coverage and the other is for the QB and WR's to be more in sync so they can exploit those smaller gaps in the coverage.

The first isn't working because Ponder doesn't have the zip or the accuracy to get it down where it needs to be consistently and when he does they drop it and the second isn't working because he is not making his decisions and releasing the ball fast enough and the defenders are able to react and make a play on the passes, the WR's routes are not that good and they drop the few easy ones they get and Ponder has just plain been making bad throws.

[nofishfisherman]

That seems to sum it up pretty well. Its all a snowball effect. When one thing breaksdown it makes it that much harder to do everything else. What amazes me even more is that with the lack of production from the passing game AP is still able to lead the league in rushing. Normally no passing production means an even harder time running the ball. There is just no explanation for what AP has been able to accomplish this year.

[Snag]

Ponder seems to have Tarvaris Jackson's brain and Brad Johnson's arm. The flutter on the deeper balls is just sad. To his defense, the receivers are terrible and can't get any separation. I blame management for signing Carlson who we didn't need. 25 million.

[Trainman]

Interesting 2011 pre-draft scouting report on Ponder

2011 pre-draft scouting report

Strengths:

Short- to intermediate-area accuracy and touch

Good mechanics and footwork

Mobile with scrambling ability

Experience under center in pro-style offense

Three-year starter

Very intelligent (completed MBA)

High character leader - team captain

Weaknesses:

Average arm strength

Might be limited to West Coast offense

Forces throws that NFL players will intercept

Questionable decision making

Injury history (shoulder, elbow)

[mrklean]

Ha pretty spot on there

[nonteepical]

you don't develop every NFL QB in their first season, i know it aint fun or pretty to watch but a couple Qb's come to mind Steve Young and Brett Farve it took them two different teams and years to figure it out, maybe this isn't the system for Ponder.

[Big Dave2]

you don't develop every NFL QB in their first season, i know it aint fun or pretty to watch but a couple Qb's come to mind Steve Young and Brett Farve it took them two different teams and years to figure it out, maybe this isn't the system for Ponder.

He's already played in more games for the Vikings than Joe Webb ever did. They gave up on Webb pretty fast, looks like its time to give up on Ponder.