APR's good for hunter recruitment but not for retention?

[Bear55]

MN should be a bow only state, give everyone 3 tags and let them shoot whatever they want. All our problems will be solved.

[Getanet]

Would cross bows be allowed?

[nonteepical]

we have a million deer(doubt it). IF we had a doe to buck ratio of 2:1(highly unlikley in a free ranging deer herd) that would give us 666,000 does and 333,000 bucks that make up the population, last year minnesota harvested about 130,000 bucks (memory), meaning we turn over our buck population roughly every 3 years and that is IF we had a 2:1 ratio, at best minnesota is 3 does to 1 buck. not very many bucks get old and the obvious is the overwhelming majority getting shot are yearlings.

[hockeybc69]

No, last year the total buck harvest in MN was 75,000 adult bucks and 17,000 fawn bucks.

[nonteepical]

But heck, let's say it's 80% is the true figure. That's only bucks harvested, not how many remain in the herd. Hunter success ranges around 33% for both bucks and does.

so if the population remains stable that means every 3 years is the turnover rate by YOUR numbers confirming we have a young population of deer.

[Getanet]

Here are the hard numbers for 2011, for all forms of hunting:

497,995 licenses sold. 85,549 bucks shot. 106,782 antlerless. 192,331 total deer shot. Success rate of 34.9%.

[Getanet]

so if the population remains stable that means every 3 years is the turnover rate by YOUR numbers confirming we have a young population of deer.

The only number I presented was an rough average of the overall success rate (bucks and antlerless). All I pointed out was the fact we don't shoot 70% of all yearling bucks every year. How you conclude much else is beyond me.

If you take the hard numbers I posted about 17% of all licenses sold last year resulted in a buck being shot.

[hockeybc69]

And of that antlerless total, 17,000 of those were fawn bucks....

[B. Amish]

it's virtually impossible to have a sustained ratio of does to bucks that's higher than 3:1.

[skee0025]

so if the population remains stable that means every 3 years is the turnover rate by YOUR numbers confirming we have a young population of deer.

The Population of deer in MN for 2011 was 1 million. So less than 1 out 5 was harvested and less than 1/2 of those were bucks.

[muskE]

OK so this is a mild issue and everyone agrees.

It pretty much boils down to herd management vs. a wall hanger based on many discussion points in this thread (but not 4 on one side). I'm pro-APR if it's for the right reasons (herd management) and against it if it's for pure vanity and ego. It would be a sad day if the basis of whatever this turns out to be was based on the popularity of what people want vs. what's best for the resource. We're in a different world where hard work and patience take a back seat to immediate reward and results (even viedo games have enhancing cheats for the epically lazy) which will eventually lead the majority as new generations enter.

As hunters, we should all be in the woods for what motivates us and brings us enjoyment but this issue seems to be striking a chasm that's dissevered this great autumn ritual for many.

As for hunter retention...? If this gets too out of hand and the sport remains divided or becomes commercialized I can see me consciously not introducing my daughter to the sport in favor of putting more attention into something else.

[skee0025]

Is the 17,000 buck fawns an estimate or hard number? It's been a few years since I hunted in MN. When you register is the "fawn" tally broken down by sex also?

[hockeybc69]

Yes, you register as Adult male, fawn male, adult doe, fawn doe.

[TruthWalleyes]

That gosh darn data...

Horn porn

[nonteepical]

The only number I presented was an rough average of the overall success rate (bucks and antlerless). All I pointed out was the fact we don't shoot 70% of all yearling bucks every year. How you conclude much else is beyond me.

[/quot

my mistake, i was thinking 33% of the population harvested.

[PropsterII]

Plenty of big bucks. Love it.

[PurpleFloyd]

I still don't buy into the whole idea that an older buck is going to produce any better future bucks than a young one or that they will be healthier.

If you want to talk balanced ratios that is fine but the way to do that is by taking more antlerless deer because once that ratio is hit it makes zero difference to the doe or the future fawn whether she succumbed to a young hip hop buck or an old frank sinatra buck. The rest is just semantics

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

That gosh darn data...

Horn porn

Humor us... whats your point on that post?

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Plenty of big bucks. Love it.

That coming from a guy located in Zone 3 APR area.

[Big Dave2]

Plenty of big bucks. Love it.

http://www.hotspotoutdoors.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2058015/1

Yep, your right. Not a single big buck being taken in Minnesota.

[Big Dave2]

That coming from a guy located in Zone 3 APR area.

[hockeybc69]

You have a way with words Dave.

[Big Dave2]

You have a way with words Dave.

Likewise, I'm sure.

[james_walleye]

I love what I've seen since APRs have gone in place. More mature buck sightings coupled with no trouble putting meat in the freezer. How can you argue with that....

[96trigger]

Hah James, there are 20 pages worth of arguing.

[PropsterII]

Originally Posted By: hockeybc69

That coming from a guy located in Zone 3 APR area.

Who doesn't hunt Zone 3, and who hasn't hunted Minnesota for a few years now and usually hunts another state as the the guns kick in.

[james_walleye]

I know trigger. It just gets old arguing about zone 3 APRs with people who don't even hunt zone 3 and have no clue how different zone 3 is than the rest of the state.

[Getanet]

James, you have to realize there are groups popping up all over who want APRs statewide and point to Zone 3 as the reason. You're right, they don't know how different Zone 3 is than the rest of the state, but they point to every picture of a Zone 3 buck they can find as the reason to implement APR's everywhere.

[tfran123]

Pretty simple, the orange army mows down the 1.5's every year and a mature buck is a very rare animal these days. No different than slots or minimum size limits on fish.

Sure some big ones get shot, they are out there, but no restrictions and a season squarely set during the peak rut does nothing to protect what is likely the easiest deer in the woods to harvest (1.5 year old buck).

If MN wants to get serious about a more balanaced deer herd than statewide APR is a winner.

[22lex]

I know trigger. It just gets old arguing about zone 3 APRs with people who don't even hunt zone 3 and have no clue how different zone 3 is than the rest of the state.

Well, it is what it is james. My heritage is about hunting and harvesting meat, but happy to see more mature deer once these APR regulations seem to be coming to fruition, and fortunate that we live in SEMN with the deer density that it is.