Learning Crankbaits

[amateurfishing]

attempted crankbaits for the first time this weekend @ the Mille Lacs HSO event. came up skunked. is there any where to learn how/what to do? our cranks stayed close to surface all night. Is reel to slow, type of line, pole technique? very confused & slightly depressed i cannot figure this out. i thought it was just casting and retrieving for technique, am i missing anything (obviously)?

[Walleyehooker]

I saw in the other post you were useing that Rouge they gave out. Great bait but not a diver. You need to use a diveing bait and haveing your rod tip up doesnt help a lure to dive.

[amateurfishing]

also used 5 & 7 raps in firetiger, purpledescent, & perch colors. all sayed 4-15 foot depths with the difft sizes. nothing ever went down for us. we cast & retrieve with tips horizontal to waster or slightly higher. i have no idea what the problem is

[Walleyehooker]

And yes you can cast and retrieve crankbaits and catch fish but most guys troll to cover more water faster. One of the best ways to learn is to go out with someone who has done this for a while. I see you are in Elk River and I live on the other side of the river. Once in a while I am looking for someone close to fill a seat and chip in on gas.

[Walleyehooker]

Heres the problem. To get a 5-7 shadrap to dive to its max you have to cast it out about 200 feet and reel really fast. Reality is you can only cast it out a short distance and by the time it dives a few feet it is back to the boat even with your rod tip down. You will need to use deeper divers if you want to get deeper.

[Chumba]

With those 5 & 7 shad raps try trolling with your main motor at 2 mph with about 100 feet of line out. That will get you started. Most baits dive curve are based on 100 ft of line. Keep the weeds off your lure and your bound to get fish eventually.

It sounds like the fishing was a little slower than it could have been, probably due to the warmer temps, so I wouldn't feel too bad

[Hoffer]

Yup.

If your throwing a shad rap in 20 feet of water even with a long cast your not going to get it to dive too deep. You can let it sink (but I think most if not all shad raps are floaters...) and then reel in but you still wont get it to stay in the strike zone that long. I usually throw rattlin raps (they will sink)if I am in 15 feet of water and casting into 4 or 5 feet. Let it sink a little and then by the time you reel it in it starts to dive as it starts to get over the deeper water. Stays in the strike zone longer. You didnt say how deep you were fishing - and if it was a consistent depth you were casting to?

If your in 20 feet or so as the other poster said its best to troll a crank with a lip and cover ground. Let out a good amount of line...the more line out, the deeper the lure will run. Choose something with a bigger lip - any of the rapala deep divers will work. Or if you want to cast - then try a crank with a bigger lip as well. In general even a 5 or 7 shad rap wont get too deep if your fishing in 20 feet of water unless you have a lot of line out and are trolling fast.

[Borch]

If you write down the diving depth on the box when you purchase the lure and figure the shallower number for casting and the deeper for trolling you'll be close.

Those shallow floating rogues are great baits and a favorite of mine for pulling over weeds and trolling in 3-5 feet of water. They diver 2-3 feet max depending on line out and diameter.

Rods angle does play a big roll in the dive curve. I had lure banging of the bottom in 17 feet of water when the rod was parallel to the water Friday night and couldn't get it to touch bottom in 14 feet of water with the rod 5-6 feet over the water Saturday.

Best way to learn is to jump in the boat with someone who trolls a lot. This time of year it not unusual for guys to have an open seat and with the price of gas many are willing to have a new guy jump it if they offer to split some fuel costs.

[amateurfishing]

think i am realizing 2 possible issues

1. amount of line out - for whatever reason i had serious line issues with my suffix braid sat nite which i never had b4 all year, was only managing to cast out 20-30 feet tops.

2. maybe a reel gear ratio issue that i need a faster reel setup but dont know for sure...got a loews setup on sale in spring for topwater baits & figured that would be fine but maybe not.

i understand 100 feet of line out for trolling but sat nite everone was anchored & parked just south of the reef, so what were people using anchored if u cant cast 100 feet or u will hit another boat?

when we were on grassland reef it was bout 5 feet of water, changed lures 3 times to bigger ones but still could not get to dive.....using cranks that said as deep as 15-18 feet, i can only suspect just not getting enough line out to use it properly

[amateurfishing]

.....and if anyone ever wants to fill an open seat so i can learn this, pm me & im all ears.

[Walleyehooker]

I think your biggest problem was haveing your rod tip up to high. Cranks dont dive well when you are pulling up on them. I never seen so many people bobbering and Im guessing thats what they were doing. I know Tony Roach talked about pitching cranks and jigs but he also said he sleeps at night.lol I have caught fish pitching cranks at night but it helps to know where you are going and can be a spot on a spot fishing. Its much easier to work a weed line etc. during the day than it is at night. It also really helps to get out before dark if you arent familiar with the area to lay down some tracks or waypoints.

[Kyhl]

i understand 100 feet of line out for trolling but sat nite everone was anchored & parked just south of the reef, so what were people using anchored if u cant cast 100 feet or u will hit another boat?

Lighted bobbers.

Most of the people I saw this weekend were bobber fishing.

I find it too boring so I jig my way through the crowds picking up a fish here and there. Then trolled after dark.

[mainbutter]

i thought it was just casting and retrieving for technique

you will get opinions that differ from mine, but I'm only giving an opinion based on what's worked for me.

You have it right. Cast. Retrieve. Catch fish.

I've tried giving my cranks twitches, changing speeds mid-retrieve, and giving the lures all kinds of input via my reel and rod.

To date my catch rate on a straight retrieve at constant speed WAAAAY surpasses my catch rate when I'm making a lure act more like a wounded fish or darting. Straight swim with a wiggle (you guys can start arguing with me now, lol).

Sometimes a slow retrieve works best, sometimes fast, sometimes in the middle. I experiment until I find what is working that day.

The biggest factor in catching/not catching is choosing the lure that runs at the right depth. If I've tried a bunch of stuff and am in prime fish habitat and am not catching, I'll fish deeper or shallower. Different crankbaits will run at different depths. Big diving bills dive deep. Other bills run shallow.

I find that standard shad raps (balsa) give me a great balance between being able to dive down so I'm no longer fishing only the surface, but aren't a true "deep diving" crankbait that goes thirty or more feet down.

Generally I like to have two people in the boat so we can run two different depths until one person outfishes the other

90% of catching fish with crankbaits is getting depth right IMO. That said, generally I consider fishing with crankbaits to be the most basic form of fishing with artificials. Keep it simple, catch fish.

With crankbaits, I don't like tying braid directly to 'em. I get improved catch rates with a fluorocarbon leader or using just plain monofilament for my main line and tying directly to the lure.

[amateurfishing]

thx for the info......i just dont get why ours NEVER went down, only stayed on surface & we were fishing in 5-7 ft of water with fish lighting up the fish finder like a x-mas tree. is it because we could not cast more than 30 feet (i had major line issues & it snapped 4 times on me)? i was using the balsa cranks with 2 difft sizes (5&7) & 3 different very popular patterns, did not matter the size, they just did not dive. even trolling 10 ft behind the boat they did not go down more than 2 ft under the surface.

my setup was lews medium action 6'6" rods with baitcaster reel, suffix 832 braid, & snap swivel to crank

wife had medium light 6" pole with spincast reel, same line & setup to crank.

is the line not heavy enuff? i like the setup cause use it for topwater bass baits and caught a 22" with bottom bouncer & leech 2 months ago

[Kyhl]

Doubt it's the line. I used 20# 832 on #5 and #7 shads this weekend and was able to snag weeds that were 7 feet down when running 60-80 feet back @ 2.3mph.

2' down when 10' back doesn't sound too far off. It should run deeper with more line.

[popriveter]

Were you running this shad rap?

This one?

Or this one?

[amateurfishing]

plastic bill of first with color scheme of second

used 3 difft sizes- one for 4-8 ft; 1 for 6-12 ft; 1 for 9-16 ft....all with same results.

if ppl use these for dock tickling or shore casting how far out are they casting? i cannot find out anything online regarding retreiving techniques or amount of line needed for successful presentations, just difft kinds of cranks, uses, & how to manually manipulate the front bills or hooks.

[John Mickish]

At 30' it would be very difficult to get one of the shallow stick baits to dive. You said you where having issues with the line. Where you by chance using a baitcaster reel?

[amateurfishing]

yes i was and this is what i was using #5 (4-8ft) & 7 (5-11ft) & we only fished 5-8 ft water the whole night

[amateurfishing]

sadly this is my only claim from the weekend....a 3 inch perch on a 2 inch crank...within 1/2 hour of putting boat on water & nothing rest of weekend

[Walleyehooker]

If you were only fishing 5-8 FOW you dont need to dive deep as ML is clear water and fish will come up for it. If you want to get it to dive deeper you need to get the tip of the rod closer to the water or use a sinking or countdown lure. Another trick we used to use before they had much for divers was to put some split shot on the line a couple feet in front of a floating rapala to get it down a little. I just dont think you were on the fish and when someone tells me the graph was loaded with fish in shallow water I think you were marking something other than walleyes or arent useing your electronis properly.

[Hoffer]

do not use a steel leader.

tie direct or use a fluorocarbon leader.

That may help you to get the lure to start diving correctly.

[Chumba]

The crank in the pic with the perch is a shallow diving crankbait. It would never go very deep. also if you said when you were trolling, you were 10 feet behind the boat, i would add 90 more feet. Need to get it away from the boat, and give the lure a chance to dive.

Another question, as I had this issue a couple years ago (im still not sure what I was doing wrong). was the lure spinning on the top of the water, not diving at all, or was it truly a couple feet down. I had some issue where I was running a 30 ft deep lure, and it would stay on top. Something was wrong, spinning and what not. im sure it was user error, as it was my first time with this type of lure.

[amateurfishing]

yeah, they stayed on top.......dont know if i need a leader? more line out? rod tip down? add bullet weight or split shots? have not really read a difinitive answer yet or maybe just some of all the above.

all i know is NONE of them were going down like i expected/assumed they would

....and dont worry bout what the fish finder was reading, they were definitely NOT diving down

...i have not read anywhere that states you need a certain amount of line out for the crankbait to work properly and when Tony Roach was talkin bout ticklin docks with em i dont think (as least did not mention it) anyone casting 100 feet

[Hoffer]

Tony roach was talking about tickling docks with that particular crank bait because

You can throw it next to a dock in shallow water and it will just go 1 to 2 feet down.

That's all that particular crank is designed to do.

if you want to go deeper, choose a different style of crank bait.

Simple as that.

[John Mickish]

OK, I think I found the root of all the problems going on for you that night. Casting lightweight cranks with a baitcaster in the dark is a recipe for disaster. They are lightweight and can easily cause a birdsnest on your reel, and that will lead to the line snapping.

Cranking down the adjustments to keep the birdsnests from happening will cause lots of drag, thus preventing the lure from being cast a decent distance.

The lure only being cast a short ways keeps the lure from diving.

Having things like leaders on your lures can easily foul up the hooks on the cast, thus preventing the lure from diving.

I don't know if it was windy that night or not, but if wind is there it can really make casting light lures a royal pain.

[amateurfishing]

Tony roach was talking about tickling docks with that particular crank bait because

You can throw it next to a dock in shallow water and it will just go 1 to 2 feet down.

That's all that particular crank is designed to do.

if you want to go deeper, choose a diff6-11fterent style of crank bait.

Simple as that.

***************************************

then why does packaging say 4-8 ft or 6-11 ft?

gee, im more confused now

[amateurfishing]

Heres the problem. To get a 5-7 shadrap to dive to its max you have to cast it out about 200 feet and reel really fast. Reality is you can only cast it out a short distance and by the time it dives a few feet it is back to the boat even with your rod tip down. You will need to use deeper divers if you want to get deeper.

somehow i never saw this post b4, at only casting 20-30 feet and it stayed on surface. im sure we did not cast far enuff and reel fast enuff. should have switched to bobber/leach or rattlin raps as stated above (i have caught real nice bass on rattlin raps).

oh well, im not mad, was just real frustrated thought everyone was using those cranks but obviously not the case at all, just some of the trollers were, anyhoo my wife was right (the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a difft result) and i should have just switched to rattlin raps/bobber/jig.

hopefully next time i will be farther ahead in the learning curve or have enough sense to just change. when u troll with big motor @ 2 mph do you hold on to rod or rod holder? how do u know its hittin bottom if in holder?

[amateurfishing]

OK, I think I found the root of all the problems going on for you that night. Casting lightweight cranks with a baitcaster in the dark is a recipe for disaster. They are lightweight and can easily cause a birdsnest on your reel, and that will lead to the line snapping.

Cranking down the adjustments to keep the birdsnests from happening will cause lots of drag, thus preventing the lure from being cast a decent distan

The lure only being cast a short ways keeps the lure from diving.

Having things like leaders on your lures can easily foul up the hooks on the cast, thus preventing the lure from diving.

I don't know if it was windy that night or not, but if wind is there it can really make casting light lures a royal pain.

yes, 4 birds nests that nite and never had one b4 all year, went thru entire spool of line and by end of nite did not have anything left for decent cast....and yes treble hooks everyone including 1 stuck in my shoe that i just had to give up on getting out till next day. i spent half the nite cleaning birds nests, re tying snap swivels, and undoing caught treble hooks between me and my wife, then u add boats flyin by and us in ours rockin away in the dark each time one goes by i had one H_ll of a time tryin to accomplish anything that nite!

[Borch]

As far as trolling either holding the rod or in the holder will work. You'll see the rod tip bump, bump, bump if you're hitting bottom. Then just reel in some line until it runs free.