WHATS UP ????

[GIANT1]

was up along the west shore the other day there was a strong east wind and noticed 100's of walleyes most over the slot floating dead along the shore ! is this from catch and release with the hot weather or from something else ?????

not in one spot but all along the west shore a couple here a few there ! ya know what i mean ???

[Troy Smutka]

Are you sure they were walleyes? We saw hundreds, maybe thousands, of dead adult tulibees this past weekend on the deep gravel and mud, but only noticed a dozen or so dead walleyes. The tulibees are dying off from the warm water temps.

[GIANT1]

No whats a walleye look like ??? JK yes they where eyes !!!

[BradHawthorne]

Hooking mortality, heat, old age, any combination of three. Seeing the numbers you saw has a lot to do with wind, get the right wind and fish pile up in one section of the lake, it may look like something major is wrong but in reality it's normal, happens most years, some more some less.

[Eyewitness]

This is how all this hubbub gets started. Ugh. I spend a lot of time on Millacs and not that there aren't a few mortality walleyes floating, however if you really take a closer look you will see that almost all the supposed "dead" walleyes are indeed tullpees. This happens every year when the water temp gets high and we have stretches of weather with little wind. The oxygen levels plummet and they go belly up very quickly. The biggest ones being the most proan to die. Those fish range from 15-22", many of which are at the upper end of that scale. From even 20-30 ft away they can certainly look like walleyes because they are belly up and bloated. Take a closer look and you will be surprised. That being said, it still doesn't mean that one shouldn't practice good catch and release tactics right now. They stress easy for sure. Fast in and fast out if ya can, and don't give them 30 seconds to eat it. They are in high metabolism mode right now. Haven't had to do any more than drop the rod tip and set the hook when rigging and everything ends up in the mouth, not their stomaches.

Seems like every year this conversation comes up. With exception to 2003 when the fish were in such tough shape they'd eat anything (sometimes 2-3 times in a half hr), there hasn't been as bad a problem as some would like to think. Just adds to the Millacs rhetoric which seems to never end.....;)

[RiverFish]

Here is an interesting read:

http://www.mnmuskie.org/pubfolder/PDF/C%...ille%20Lacs.pdf

Up to 12% mortality rate in the hotter months.

[TallPaull]

I was all over the lake yesterday and most of the fish we saw were tullies. I have been up at the lake since Sunday and every fish that I have scooped up from my shoreline has been a tullie. When I was on the water I thought they were eyes but when I drove by them they were tullies. I will say that I hate north winds because it smells horrible (because I'm on the south end of the lake).

[BrdHunter01]

If everyone's so concerned about hooking mortality why were 90% of walleye anglers fishing in 30ft the last 2 weekends?

[RiverFish]

Depth was also not associated with hooking

mortality. Most fish were caught in water less than

10 m deep. Depth will influence hooking survival in

deeper lakes by increasing the probability that anglers

do not feel bites and thus let the fish swallow the hook,

increasing the stress induced from decompression

(Childress 1988; Bruesewitz et al. 1993; Burns et al.

2002), and probably increasing stress with rapid

temperature changes. On Mille Lacs, some anglers

expressed concern that most small walleyes caught

from deeper water were dying from gas bladder

expansion. This observation was not supported by

our study, nor by Bettoli et al. (2000), who

experimentally caught and released sauger Sander

canadensis, a smaller congeneric of the walleye.

[hart0670]

If everyone's so concerned about hooking mortality why were 90% of walleye anglers fishing in 30ft the last 2 weekends?

+100

[BrdHunter01]

On Mille Lacs, some anglers

expressed concern that most small walleyes caught

from deeper water were dying from gas bladder

expansion. This observation was not supported by

our study, nor by Bettoli et al.

So your telling me that when I pull a fish (small walleye or perch) from 30ft of water and it has a gas bladder and was hooked in the lip... they survived? And that gas bladder had nothing to do with them immediately going belly up?

They must have wanted to a good sun tan on the surface before they darted down to the bottom to survive

[RiverFish]

BrdHunter01,

I am not telling you that, 2 scientific studies are.

[RiverFish]

The Mn DNR only had 4 walleyes that "Gas bladder expansion or

the eversion of stomach or esophagus into the buccal

cavity, so this variable was not included in the models." out of 1,246 walleyes in the study.

[leech~~]

If you ever want to see a really sad thing. Take a nice long walk along the north beach after a few days of high winds. You will see died Eye's of all sizes and some really nice ones laying all over. I suggested to a DNR guy that if they really wanted to do a good study of the lake they should take a walk once a week, pickup and do a count of how many eye's they find and do a study on size and what may have killed them.

[RiverFish]

If you ever want to see a really sad thing. Take a nice long walk along the north beach after a few days of high winds. You will see died Eye's of all sizes and some really nice ones laying all over. I suggested to a DNR guy that if they really wanted to do a good study of the lake they should take a walk once a week, pickup and do a count of how many eye's they find and do a study on size and what may have killed them.

http://www.mnmuskie.org/pubfolder/PDF/C%...ille%20Lacs.pdf

[BrdHunter01]

The Mn DNR only had 4 walleyes that "Gas bladder expansion or

the eversion of stomach or esophagus into the buccal

cavity, so this variable was not included in the models." out of 1,246 walleyes in the study.

So there were only 4 walleyes that had "gas bladder expansion" in there study?

[RiverFish]

Yes, read the study. I could not find the other study they reference on Saugers and depth/mortality.

[BrdHunter01]

So your telling me that when I pull a fish (small walleye or perch) from 30ft of water and it has a gas bladder and was hooked in the lip... they survived? And that gas bladder had nothing to do with them immediately going belly up?

[deets22]

maybe the DNR should close down fishing when water temps hit a certain level and don't open it again till they go back down. then they could regulate and write citations to people who are fishing too deep. that would help curb all this summer fish mortality. that will help the rest of us to do our part.

[RiverFish]

BrdHunter,

What would you qualify as a large data sample? This study covered 2 years and 1,246 walleyes.

They just did not pull a number from no where.

We used common angling methods across the entire open water

season and sought to catch at least 1,200 walleyes,

based on a priori simulations to determine the sample

size needed to detect a 50% change from 6% in

hooking mortality estimates from a model with three

variables. Our original hypothesis was that water

temperature, water depth, and fish length were the

most influential and most easily measured variables in

estimating hooking mortality for Mille Lacs walleyes

during the open water season.

[Kyhl]

Quote:

Gas bladder expansion or

the eversion of stomach or esophagus into the buccal

cavity was observed in only four cases, so this variable

was not included in the models.

This tells me that gas bladder issues were not included in the study because of low sample size. Nothing more.

I interpret it as: of the 1,246 fish caught, they only had four fish with this issue so they could not determine the effects of gas bladder expansion on mortality.

What they observed is that out of 1,246 only four had the issue. We do not know if the four lived or died. Therefore, this study does not tell us what happens when a fish gets gas bladder expansion.

On the other hand, I do not consider Mille Lacs to be deep water fishing and neither does this survey. And since bladder expansion is so minor on Mille Lacs that it is insignificant because Mille Lacs is not deep. Fish are caught at a depth less than 32 feet. That is not deep. I caught walleyes in 40-45 feet of water the weekend after opener and still didn't have this issue.

It may happen occasionally, but it happens so infrequently that it does not matter to the total mortality.

[RiverFish]

Kyhl,

I agree with your post. This study is specific to Mille Lacs lake, the DNR did not study gas bladder expansion because it happened so infrequent on Mille Lacs during their study date.

[Red Miller]

Gas bladder expansion or whatever other term they use is not the issue. Taking a 7 lb walleye from cold deep water in a prolonged exhausting struggle, bringing it in the boat, having a photo session and then releasing it in warm, oxygen depleted water kills fish. Its called "stress" and "exhaustion". I cant believe people dont see that. Smaller fish are the least susceptible to that. Especially when there arent too many of them to begin with.

[fishgutz77]

The only time gas expansion is even in the equation is when the accent is to rapid.

everyone run the 100 yrd dash as fast as you can and then hold your breath.

start in the air conditioning and then run into a sauna to boot. LOL

I refuse to live bait this time of year with light line.

I target fish 24-28ft down and the leadcore brings them up nicely and the reefrunners lip hook them as well. fish are nice and strong when they pound to the bottom. Good luck.

[BrdHunter01]

BrdHunter,

What would you qualify as a large data sample? This study covered 2 years and 1,246 walleyes.

More than 4.... Your trying to tell me that these studies are telling me that gas bladder does not affect the survival rate. My point is this study does "NOT SUPPORT" that in any way, shape, or form.

[RiverFish]

BrdHunter01,

Read the study. Gas bladder expansion only occurred in 4 of the fish on Mille Lacs during the study. Thus gas bladder expansion is not a cause for walleye expansion on Mille Lacs. I am not saying it doesn't happen on other lakes.

[BrdHunter01]

So your telling me that when I pull a fish (small walleye or perch) from 30ft of water and it has a gas bladder and was hooked in the lip... they survived? And that gas bladder had nothing to do with them immediately going belly up?

[RiverFish]

Then why did you comment on it? This is the Mille Lacs Lake thread right?

[CaptainMusky]

I disagree I think donkey Kong was the greatest game of all time.

[BryeGuy]

Donkey Kong SUCKS.