Thoughts On 220's

[monstermoose78]

+1

[Trapper J]

As a gundog man I understand the concern of the 220.I also love my trapping.I also know that no good can come out of this by both sides taking potshots at each other.The anti's are lovin it! There are some ideas out there mentioned earlier that would work- no baited boxes or buckets until after Dec.1,possibly signs at a trail-head or area,shorten bird season,etc. Elevated sets dont work very good.I tried it for 2 seasons with 10 sets they produced nothing.Cats and fisher dont hunt 4 to 5 ft off the ground.Also these were spots that were and still are producing critters when set up on the ground. I dont know of a trapper that would want to do harm to a dog.Once in a while they get caught and its unfortunate.Accidents happen!Lets not punish all trappers for it and take away a good tool.Sometimes I think there is more regard for a dogs life than human lives.I didnt see wcco in the area when a young guy got killed a few weeks ago just down the road.

[Ray1]

One more thing - actually two. Run the fisher/martin season the same length of time as the bobcat season, and run the otter season with the beaver seasons. These items irk me.

Finally someone thinking the way i do.

As a dog owner, trapper, fisherman and hunter i keep a good eye on my dog durring trapping season and always cary a pair of conibear setters. That way if my dog does happen to get into one i can get him out quickly.

I would hate to see any regulations on 220s. Hunters and trappers need to be a team against Peta not fighting each other. Simple as that. Trappers keep furbears in check which helps nesting birds. Trappers also pay to be outdoors just like hunters so lets get together and fight against more restrictions.

[Random guy]

One more thing - actually two. Run the fisher/martin season the same length of time as the bobcat season, and run the otter season with the beaver seasons. These items irk me.

That makes way to much sense.

Swamptiger you have some great ideas and I commend you for them.

As for grouse closure and season adjusts I mentioned that but the pheasant hunters and rabbit hunters shot that down as quickly as a one winged rooster.

I will be the first to say we the trappers may have lost this battle before it even started. It is the way has always been and will always be until the trapper is gone from America. I just wish I wouldn't have spent the money replacing all the triggers on my 220s. Now I have a pile of useless iron with new triggers, guess I didn’t see this coming. Maybe I should call WCCO and start sobbing for the camera. I might get as good of turn out as the dog side of this did and somebody will donate me the cost of the triggers. Maybe somebody will give me a 10k dog, heck I would be happy with a $50 dog as I miss my old bird dog. She got ran over on a job site a couple years ago. I plan on petitioning a ban on all wheeled construction equipment later this month.

To get back on track

Trouble I run into is my water sets legally become "ground sets" once the ice forms. “Elevated” puts them up where only climbing critters can get to them so water based furbearers that still rove around after freeze up and do not climb are now a snare or no-freeze pan set such as a fox set. Trapping the bog is a major difference from trapping river bottoms and the hilly country of southern MN. Heck I have huge multi mile areas I don’t even have a tree big enough to elevate the trap in, I struggle to find brush heavy enough to anchor snares and often have pack in steel stakes. Loss/miss rates are going to go way up. Sadly the only way to make up the numbers is more pan traps and snares.

The title of topic is thoughts on the 220. My thought is the 220 is the most valuable tool in my arsenal. Loss of the 220 ground set will severely impact my success and income. To resolve or counter the effects of the 220 ban I plan on placing either two larger pan traps say #2s and #3s in its place to keep the odds in favor. Another approach will be a four snare set in every place I can no longer ground set a 220. Some places the two big hard hitting pan traps will work and other the multiple snare sets will make up the difference. It will be hard to make up for the efficiency of the 220 and will require multiple sets to equal out. Either way I have a second window open right now ordering 200 premade snares in three grades/sizes to replace the 220s. The prices are not bad right now and figured snatch them up now before that changes. 600 snares should cover the first year snares in place of the 220 ground set requirements I need to meet. Sadly snares are a one catch deal, especially using the good locking slides. I guess one good thing about going to snares is I will be able to extend my lines covering more territory as I can pack a couple hundred snares where I could fit 10 or 12 220 conibears, plus a much lighter load.

Guess that’s the silver lining of it.

Of course next year it will be snares. Soon all we will be able to trap is squirrels in the tops of trees and moles underground. Wonder how police forces feel about trading their muskrat fur lined hats for squirrel hats?

[Tinkhamtown]

December 1 stop grouse hunting and begin trapping is a good idea!

+3

[Random guy]

October 15th is when I can start trapping and up here it is a small window before the water freezes up and several species go dormant. Looks good on paper but the reality of it is tough due to winter setting in.

As for Bobcat, Fisher, Martin and other "late season" species it would make sense.But when it comes to other species moslty coons in the southern end it won't work.

Its complicated on many levels

[swamptiger]

Quote:

.But when it comes to other species moslty coons in the southern end it won't work.

Not sure 220's are the main trap in use for coons, fox, and coyotes, anyway.. The dogproof traps and footholds are mostly what I've seen serious coon and canine trappers use.

[Trashguy]

JonnyP, I was not going to post anymore, but with your attitude I just have too. Maybe if you had that $50 dog on a 4' leash, she/he would have not gotten run over & you wouldn't have to worry about that petition. Remember all the suggestions about having your dog under control, bologna? I know this is all coming from your frustration with what might come in changes. I understand that. But what really tics me off with all back and forth bickering set aside, what really comes through with most of your post on this subject is your problem with us that live in the southern part of the state and want to enjoy that part of the country too and value each minute spent in the woods. It comes across big time from my end. And yes I own no $10,000 dog (get off it, as how many people do), no ATV, heck I still use a small compass and don't own GPS either. If I am wrong in my read on you, tell me why . I could go on, but why when I would't change your mind anyway. anyway. One other thing that gets too me is some the analogies being used by some of the trapper group. I guess you you don't have a good answer to the questions being asked, that is what you use for an answer.

[dcraven]

Johnny - Impressive - that is a lot of traps to run!

MonsterM - I didn't quite understand your comment, "and neither do/did you...; so get off your high horse..." Since when is stating one's opinion being "on a high horse."? It may really tick you off (sounds like it...) that others may have a differing opinion than you but let's face it - this is all about constituents/politics. Who do you think has more power politically - us as trappers or dog owners? That's the bottom line these days - a little laminated sign - say 4" by 6" is a heck of a lot better than losing our rights to have our 220's on the ground...

[jparrucci]

Thank you to swampman and swamptiger for bringing constructive solutions. I don't know when is the prime time for some of these species, so the input of some experts helps. Grouse woods compared to farmland is a big difference too. Is there areas of the state where they are more important than others?

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Is there areas of the state where they are more important than others?

To me, the 220 is a primary tool for watersets and fisher/martin/bobcat trapping. Watersets shouldn't be an issue for dogs. Coon/fox/coyote trappers have other options available that work as well or better than 220s, imop. The fisher/martin/bobcat season could easily be moved back to Dec. 1st, imop.

That's about it, except bird hunters should also realize that trappers provide a great service to bird populations in general..

[Random guy]

Thats what gets it all squirrly. I use 220s for water based animals and have to pull the traps on land by definition due to ice. Trappers I know to the south use 220s for land based critters such as coon, skunk (harvested for scent galnds and fur) and other smaller rascals along with water based animals on slide or crossover sets (when a critter goes across a beaver dam or point of land).

[Random guy]

Sorry swamptiger I see you posted while I was typing.

As for Fox and coyote 220 is not a good tool to use. I prefer snares for those and many like pan traps.

[swampman]

Your right the area of the state I trap and Jonny p trap are alot different down here in the more "coon country " part of the state most guys are not running 220 land sets in the fall, some do, the ones that are most are running unbaited coon trail sets and not buckets or boxes as they are not real effective that time of year. Most of the bucket and box 220 sets are a late winter early spring thing for coon in the southern half of the state.

[Random guy]

Huh, thats interesting. Coons don't have trails up here. Of course we don't have very many coon up here compaired to southern regions. When I bring them to the buyer he gives me dirty looks and keeps telling me "stringy". Most coons I trap here are out of yards as favors for neigbors.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Most coons I trap here are out of yards as favors for neigbors.

Ever use one of these? Cat's meow dog-proof coon trap...

[swampman]

Most of the guys that set trails are setting path's to corn fields which you don't have or path's to creeks and such early season. Most of the numbers guys are water trappers.

[Random guy]

Yup I tried a few and they do work great. Easy to set and a no worry deal. I actaully tried to get Otter to paw into one just to see, no luck.

[Random guy]

. Most of the numbers guys are water trappers.

That would be me. Majority of my sets are done from a boat.

[swamptiger]

I've caught a few skunks in them, but nothing else..(besides coon)..

[JBar]

I think that the pheasant regions of the state are where the problems arise more frequent I'm not from there, only can assume. Actually I've never heard anyone from where I grew up in Kooch county to where I live now in Beltrami county talk about the issue of dogs getting into a conibear very rare occurance. I will also say that the dog proof type traps have taken on with coon trappers like wildfire if you're looking for lil grizz or duke DP's at the trappers convention you'd better get on it or the vendors will be sold out some of the coon longliners strickly run DP's on their lines. The 220 is very important part of trapping and one of the most versitile traps ever made imo. I can only speak for the nothern region of the state but more restriction to already short seasons and limited time to a trapper like myself who does not have full days besides weekends, weekday mornings and nights before and after work, the loss of the 220 could force me to make sets that take more time consuming measures and push me out of something that I have enjoyed doing since I was 8 years old. Keep in mind I'm not trying to take down the guys in the south I only know the problem's in the northern parts of the state and I'm shure trapping methods are much different as ways species are trapped.

[sheepheadslayer]

I still can't believe that hunters want to side with anti's and limit anything in this regard. How many of the dogs lost out there could have been saved by being educated?? for sure the dog that the owner had his son go get a gun to be put down while in a 220 as was the article in the Star Trib. This person had they had some knowledge of the 220 could have twisted the springs in the upright position and woud have ample time to remove the trap. Shoot your own dog because you are uneducated? [PoorWordUsage] Any ban on anything outdoors related on public property or not is no good for anyone. The number one thing is education. Rather than be educated just simply ban something so you don't have to worry about it. Go figure.

[gixxer01]

The conversation will be on wcco news again tonight.

Legislation will be proposed next wed. to elevate 220s.

[MuleShack]

I'm not against trapping, I'm just worried for my dogs while hunting on public lands.

So with that, I'm going to throw out a somewhat simple solution. Bird hunters hunt during the daylight and most traps are filled over night with nocturnal creatures.

The traps could be placed an hour prior to sunset and need to be removed/released before shooting time in the morning. Hunters get 8 hours of free time and trappers get 16 hours a day.

We share the land, we share the time and take any risk out of it. the trappers can still use the 220 and the hunters can not worry that their dog may find a box or bucket in the ditch.

Most trappers that do this as a hobby should have no problem setting an area each night. The guys that set 300 which in my opinion is more of a business/commercial run outfit probably wont be able to get their stuff set over night.

I guess it wont work for everyone, but just throwing it out there as an idea.

[Random guy]

And this is how it goes. Wiger has proposed that ALL body grip traps not just the 220 have to be 5 feet off the ground OR COMPLETELY SUBMERGED in the water! So now we have to figure out how get animals to dive into a trap or climb up five feet. It went from 220 ground sets to ALL body gripping traps not only elevated but submerged, not halfway submerged as the current 330 law states but completely submerged as in fully under the water.

Quote:

Wiger, along with Rep. John Ward of Brainerd, aren’t asking to ban the trap, but rather change how it’s used. They want the traps moved 5 feet off the ground and placed in a way that dogs can’t get to them. Also, if the traps are used in the water to catch muskrats and other animals, they would have to be completely submerged.

Yet another kick in the teeth. People ask us for compromise and want us to understand!? Ya that just went out the window with another sucker punch from behind. Better look out hunters as soon us trappers will be gone and your next.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I guess it wont work for everyone, but just throwing it out there as an idea.

I don't see that as a workable solution for anyone.

There are three main issues here, as I see it:

1.) The use of the 220 as a trail/dry land set for coon. This would primarily be in the south zone. There are other alternatives available.

2.) The end date of grouse season in the north conflicts with the start date of fisher/marten/bobcat season. These dates could be moved to Dec. 1st.

3.) The use and established methods of 220s for watersets should not be an issue at all, and shouldn't be changed.

[dcraven]

Johnny P. - Where do you market your fur up your way? The nearest furbuyer I can find to hear (Walker) is Fosston, G. Rapids and Detroit Lakes...

DC

[Random guy]

Some to Park Rapids, some to Grand Rapids and some goes direct to auction. Although after I got the call last night I really think I may be hanging it up. They ban the current water set for fully submerged I will not bring in enough plus need to buy a ton of pan traps to replace the 220s,330s. If it passes its all over for me.

[RangerJack]

Is there anything we can do to make a compromise? Or is the voice of the bird hunter(s) too big?

I'd gladly make a call to a legislator.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I won't say the bird hunters voice is too big, but it's huge. I'm guessing it's due to there are a lot more bird hunters in my area than trappers.

"Thoughts on 220s" Here's mine, it's the most valuable tool I have for trapping coon and skunks. I live, hunt, and trap in SW MN, pheasant country. Land trail sets is where I get over half of my coon and skunk. Yes, footholds would work but the 220 works a LOT better. If I have to elevate these, the trail set is gone. I don't want to walk up on a live skunk who's not happy cuz his foot is in a trap, and I trap a lot of skunks.

For fox they work, but not real well.

One thing pheasant hunters (I'm one of them) need to understand is skunks will do more to decimate the bird population than a bad winter will.

All the WMA and WPA's here have signs all over the place saying it's public hunting land. Another sign on the same post saying "Traps in the area, watch your dog" is a great idea so the hunters realize the risk.

I trapped a dog once. On my property. It didn't die. I felt badly for the dog but didn't have a lick of anything nice to think about the guy trespassing on my land.