Thoughts On 220's

[motley man]

Any thoughts on the 220 conibear ban push by dog onwers.

[memyself@I]

Motley man

It is NOT a push to ban 220s, I am not sure where this misinformation is coming from, but its a lie. Many states require that the body grips are set 5 feet off the ground, and for a climbing species like fisher and marten, it is very effective, in fact Maine traps substantially more fisher and marten than we do.

Why not open a dialogue and see what can be done together so that trappers can continue their harvest, and that dog owners, who legally spend more and more time in the woods during trapping season can have a greatly reduced risk of having their dogs caught and killed in a body grip trap??

[Brownie77]

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[JBar]

Motley man

It is NOT a push to ban 220s, I am not sure where this misinformation is coming from, but its a lie. Many states require that the body grips are set 5 feet off the ground, and for a climbing species like fisher and marten, it is very effective, in fact Maine traps substantially more fisher and marten than we do.

Why not open a dialogue and see what can be done together so that trappers can continue their harvest, and that dog owners, who legally spend more and more time in the woods during trapping season can have a greatly reduced risk of having their dogs caught and killed in a body grip trap??

What was the article in the trib and news cast on WCCO about if it wasnt about adding restrictions or elminitating the use of body gripping traps on public land in MN. I'm not trying to be argumentive but thats how I preceived both publications. I think in some areas elevated pole sets are less effective than others from my experence also seems to be that with marten more males are caught than females with elevated sets. Cats in elevated sets never had it happen.

[HunterLee]

Why would we want to give up one of the best tools we have??????? Any restrictions will cost us fur, and its not to hard to trap more fishers than MN as we have a small 9 day season and they have a long one. I have yet to get a fisher in a elevated set, but only have tried a few.

Also doubt that bobcats will climb to get in my trap.

[HunterLee]

Second thought maybe we should outlaw dogs in the woods? That sounds just as good.

I take my dog trapping all the time. She has had been taught and I have no worries. A little education on both ends would help alot.

[Saw557]

Its a slippery slope to go down. I have two hunting dogs and am I a trapper I understand the risks of running a dog in the field. I also dont think the laws about the use of 220's should be changed. If they make us elevate the set you can about right off ever catching a bob cat and I think it would effect the fisher harvest as well.It really irks me when the media goes on a witch hunt like this. There are a lot bigger problems in the state then the use of 220's. I paged through the petiton and noticed the vast majority of people that signed it are from the metro area and have more than likely don't really understand how things work in the big woods....flame on

[dcraven]

As a dog owner who hunts in the uplands and a trapper I could see a common sense approach, rather than banning 220's to some height restriction, that would require a sign being posted (much similar to our bear baiting law) at the nearest trailhead, access area or road abutment that would warn dog owners of a nearby trap yet not give away the location of the trap. This would cut down the dog deaths greatly and would only increase the loss of stolen traps a fairly small amount. The sign might be two or three hundred yards from the trap. Oddly enough, as I type this, there is a special on Brainerd/Bemidji's Public TV news show, Lakeland News, on this very issue.

I would hate to see the loss of 220's on the ground. This is the headline of the show right now... He's pushing for a five foot off the ground limit. Wow... A sign or two is all that is needed to greatly reduce this. Representative John Ward is meeting with the DNR on this next week, it says.

[monstermoose78]

if you placed a sign it would it be the end of your trap, because someone would steal it or set it off.

[Random guy]

So I have about 300 plus sets a year, not bucket sets down the road but sets spread out over a twenty mile square of northern Minnesota wilderness. How many signs would I need?

I think its simple. I have been debating this in the hunting forum and I have a solution. All hunting dogs small enough to fit into a 220 trap need to be on a four foot leash. Not saying they have to get rid of the dog or ban small dogs just change how they use them.

Wasn't such a good idea when they had to change their methods...made no sense at all to the dog club.

[jparrucci]

I guess if trap theft is that huge of any issue, it says a lot about the people trapping. Keep up comments like that jonnyp and you will have most hunters against you and a total ban on trapping. We as dog owners are looking for solutions, if the only responses from trappers are to keep our dogs out if the woods, your trapping days will be numbered. Trappers NEED hunters support, not the other way around. A few less birds because predator numbers are higher isn't going to cost me sleep. Losing my dog because some bonehead put a 220 right next to a wma parking lot or right off a heavily hunted grouse trail is gonna cost me sleep. Trappers have had their chance to cooperate and use common sense. This last fall and winter have proven they refuse to trap ethically or intelligently. So what is gonna change? Is there something that can be done to make things safer? Later season start? Different type if trap? If the best trappers can come up with is leash my dog while hunting, I hope you enjoyed your last trapping season.

[Random guy]

LOL

Well I think it makes perfect sense! Us as trappers are the ones being asked to change how we do things. I feel it is only fair that the dog owners also take a look and make some changes. If we have to elevate our traps and you put your dog on a leash nothing bad will ever happen, we both had to change how things are done and both groups lost efficeincy.

Like I said not that I want to ban dogs, just how they how they are used.

[RangerJack]

Jonny, I see where you're coming from..You need to trap to make a living, but you also need people coming to your area to hunt/fish, so you can make $$ off of them. Both sides will have to give up something, or it's not fair. But more than likely the trappers will be screwed, because many grouse hunters are from the cities, and have more influence in the legislature. I sure hope the 220 stays around for years to come, because I would like to catch a bobcat in one some day. Both sides are going to have to come to an agreement, and meet in the middle. Get your voice out there, keep it cool/calm, and hope for the best.

good luck

[JBar]

This issue makes my head spin. Why should there be more regulations on 6 incedental catches over the entire area of the state. I don't see the dog hunters taking any responsiblity at all. The only thing that I have seen so far is the talk of the caveman trapper that has no morals or ethics and THEY need to change. If that day did come and hopefully not if trapping is gone who is in the cross hairs then? I have no animosity towards people who enjoy hunting with dogs and it suprises me that the dog hunters dislike trappers so much. Why is it so hard for everyone to let people enjoy the outdoors the way they like to just because it's different than your preference does not mean its better or worse. If you ask me vehicles have taken more dogs than traps but a really good hunting dog wouldn't chase a car would it? Life is dangerous.

[Random guy]

I guess if trap theft is that huge of any issue, it says a lot about the people trapping.

By the way the comment about stolen traps and what type of people trappers are. The last traps I had stolen the man from Brainerd with his wife and birddog walked out with the trap chains hanging from the game bag on his vest right past one of my trail cameras. I set out the camera for late season bow hunting hoping to get a picture of a buck with a down turned rack but instead I got a guy stealing traps and trespassing. I thought since I was on private property I was safe and didn’t have to hide my trail, tracks or sets. He followed them right to the sets pulled the traps and turned around back out. Gave the phototo the warden and got my traps back and he got a nice trespassing warning from the land owner...and the landowner is scarier then any trap by a long ways. In fact I lost minnow traps two years ago north of town, grouse hunter stumbled onto them took them and tried to trade them to another bait dealer that recognized they where mine. Warden went and got those traps back also.

So lets be careful about telling the kettle just what color he is.

[bigg edd]

Hey jparrucci, if trappers are a bunch of stealing thugs why do you hear about the constant breaking in of fish houses and theft of tree stands???? Next time you hit your favorite bird trail leave a bunch of your gear in the back of your pick-up if its so safe. It's people like you who worry me....

[Random guy]

Bigg Edd, Trappers did it silly! What else do trappers have to do in our off time after we killed all the dogs? "Spose we could al just sats a round in our coon skin caps drinking shine off the front purch and spit tobbacoo at the step kids while we clean the blood of our skunnun nifes".

[dcraven]

Johnny P. - seriously - do you have 300 220 sets per year out? I find that a bit hard to believe. I'm specifically talking about on-land sets w/220's, which is what this thread is about. If you are not willing to compromise a bit in this day and age you (we) will get run over because trappers are now in the vast MINORITY. In my opinion, this bill could potentially pass in the next couple of years. A happy medium would be better than having to relocate all of our 220's to five feet above ground. Reread my initial response. I'm not proposing to have a sign posted at the trap, I'm suggesting posting a sign at the trailhead, vicinity or road access that would obviously deter the bird hunters from choosing that trail at that point in time. They would go elsewhere - to a different trail - they would not go trap hunting. The alternative may well be all the way to what none of us want, as trappers - the loss of the right to trap on the ground with body-grippers... I just would rather have this than the loss of the right alltogether.

DC

[monstermoose78]

I am sure the girl who was caught setting my traps off belonged to P.E.T.A. because that was the sticker she had one her window of her car. I had the make model and lics plate number for the warden. I know as a trapper i would never think about taking anothers trap. I think people need to take responsibility for their actions and know if its trapping season what risk your taking. Its like ice fishing you all know the ice might break and your truck could fall in, but we take that chance. I do not take my dog out while martin fisher and bobcat season is going on because I do not want to take the chance. I think John said trappers help the bird hunters and that is pure truth with out trappers think of how many less birds would be around.

[monstermoose78]

Dcraven neither do you! Trappers help ground nesting birds more then would ever know. 1 coon can destory how many nests in its home range, snunks the same, fox. All of which can be caught in a box set with a 220 so get off your high horse.

[swampman]

I would like to thank you for lumping all us trappers together. The thought that trap theft is just trappers is ubsurd, "trappers have had there chance to cooperate and use common sense and trap ethically or intelligently" must be nice to be a hunter and not have any idiots in your ranks huh? come on get real there is a sprikling of idiots in every faction of society. I hunt as do most trappers and have had hunting dogs for 30 yrs.

We don't need hunters and trappers turning on each other, we are both minorities in the general public and there is a large segment of society that would like to see hunting banned also.

There should be some room for compromise instead of having a knee jerk reaction to a media story that showed a slanted view on a emotional issue

[jparrucci]

Again, I ask what else can be done? You guys are not helping your cause. Is there some trapping rules you don't like that can offset this? I have yet to hear ANY constructive response. Is there any alternative? Or should I just write you guys off? I want to help you catch more predators. Give me some examples, alternative solutions to current laws and seasons. When I go to my friends in high places I would like to be able to help you, not hurt you.

[Tinkhamtown]

$1000.00 for a good pup, years of training and hunting experience priceless add one 220 equals a super loss of a priceless member of my family plus lots of sadness. I keep my dogs out of danger as much as possible by not hunting when trapping is going on.

Tink

[monstermoose78]

jparrucci did you ask yourself what else you could to do help prevent this? You dont seem to be helping your cause either. An alternative for trapping with 220s not really. Well if you could get bobcats coons fox and coyotes to just walk in my back yard I would shoot them, but you have make sure it was during season. If your dog was killed I am sorry but you knew trapping season was going on. Just remember when go to your high places friends they cant help you in when you cant find a grouse pheasant of duck to shoot, because you took away a tool of the trappers.

Thanks Tink! I dont hunt with a dog when trapping season is going either.

[swampman]

I wish I could give a solution that would make everybody happy. I can't. Outlaw all traps, peoples dogs are still going to be hit by cars and killed, I would bet that a 100 times more pets are killed each year by vehicles but it does'nt make the 10 pm news. I personally kwno of 5 good hunting dogs run over by cars I don't personally know anybody that has lost a dog to a trap.

I will give one idea to kick around

1-look into adjusting season dates so we don't get as much overlap (grouse season is 3 1/2 months long. Close grouse season dec 1 and start bobcat/fisher martin season after dec 1

[monstermoose78]

+1 to that

[Random guy]

Johnny P. - seriously - do you have 300 220 sets per year out? I find that a bit hard to believe.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Close grouse season dec 1 and start bobcat/fisher martin season after dec 1

+2..

Really not too hard to reach a compromise if people are willing to give a little.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Once the water freezes traps have to go on land or above the water line. Having a trap froze into ice does not work very well.

Doubt if there's any instances of dogs being caught in watersets, so the law shouldn't be changed in regards to watersets.

[swamptiger]

One more thing - actually two. Run the fisher/martin season the same length of time as the bobcat season, and run the otter season with the beaver seasons. These items irk me.