Renting a spot on the ice

[northerndave]

If this was a normal year we wouldn't even be having this convo because you would not be able to drive anywhere like you can now.

Well.....

Maybe not ALL of us would be able to drive anywhere....

[Boss Hogg]

If a person leaves his house on the lake, and comes back a week later, are they going to charge you and additional $70??

[northerndave]

On a "normal year" I would have a skid house in a location where only portable set ups should be able to go. Far away from any plowed roads.

But even still, I would pay somebody for the use of their private access to get my truck onto the lake and out to my tracked rig.

And I'd do so quite gladly.

And if a property owner chose to charge me again coming off the lake for the use of their private access, I'd gladly pay again.

If they asked me how many days I used their lake....

Well then there would be complications.

I made a personal choice to equip myself to be completely independent and basically limitless on where I can fish the lake with a skid house.

I don't need plowed roads, deep snow is actually to my advantage.

Even still I choose to support the resorts by utilizing there access points and purchasing bait, tackle, drinks and food from them. Because resorts are just cool, the whole lake resort culture is cool, the history, the fishing stories at the watering hole, the good food... It's just plain fun.

What's not fun is when a resort employee displays a lake nazi demeanor.

I believe that would have to be a rare occurrence though because it's just not good for business.

[Spicoli]

If someone "catches" me in a certain resort's "ice territory" without a day pass from their point of access..... how the hell do they know where I came from? Especially on a year like this with no snow cover?

It's the threat that’s posing the problem here, not fees.

If I use resort A’s access as my point of lake entry and pay accordingly at resort A, what happens if I drive across the lake to resort B’s "territory" ? Can I get “caught” for being in their territory without a resort B pass?

And then what exactly????

I feel it's quite inappropriate to impose threats as if someone is loitering on your property. "better not let me catch you out there without a pass or it's going to be big trouble for you."

Really? What kind of trouble? A private citizen’s own set of laws imposed upon another citizen?

That's how you want to conduct business?

The use of privately owned property to access the lake is very cut and clear. A fee of the property owners choice for use of their property to access the lake is very simple, easy to understand and perfectly legal. The property owner may also want to take into consideration any expenses for efforts on the public lake that make his access more attractive to his potential customers. (plowing, marking trail, testing ice, cutting ice heaves, planking cracks etc)

Access fees for the use of their legally owned property is not being disputed.

Compensation for their work is not being disputed either.

What is being disputed is the idea that private property owner can drive out onto the public waters and impose his own private set of laws on another citizen.

It is actually quite upsetting, the statement "don't let us catch you out there without a current pass".

It is without a doubt reaching too far.

A far better practice and a far more legal practice would be to say: "This $10 pass gives you permission to use our property to access the lake today. The pass is good for today only. If you wish to use our property to leave the lake on a day other than today you will need to purchase a new $10 pass."

Very well said, and agree 100%

[CigarGuy]

If these roads werent being plowed and maintained you would not have access to the lake with your big sleeper houses. Many resorters are working on Nick and Brian and Al to quit plowing those stupid roads so the Resorts will haul everyone out to rental houses everytime.

I don't have a problem paying the fee, a little track vehicle saved our bacon a few years ago pulling us out! With that being said, if the resorts quit plowing roads, so only they would be able to access the lake(minus sleds, etc) that would be a death sentence to the resort business on the lake. I doubt they could survive on just their own rental business. I don't like the argument that they are doing us a favor plowing the roads. It go's both ways, without plowed roads, every local business would be affected.

[lichen fox]

Sounds like we need to contact our State Representatives and make them pass legislation to force the DNR to maintain all public acess points and plow ice roads on every body of water across the state for the for the public to use the entire winter!! The taxpayers could pay for snow plows to be installed on all of the C.O.'s pickups, and the materials they would each need to build bridges to cross the cracks...they would also have to include additonal hours for current employees or hire one or more employees to maintain each public access point on each body of water...Oh, and I'm sure we would have to have hire someone to inspect the roads each day to make sure they are safe and that the employees in charge of plowing them are actually doing their jobs! Oh, and being's it's a "publicly" funded road, I'm sure we would need first responders at each access point in case someone gets hurt or in trouble and of course we'd have to start a "ice-patrol" enforcement division to enforce speed limits and other regulations on these publicly maintained Ice Roads too...AND...the extra hours or extra jobs created to do all of this each day would help stimulate the economy...Sure they would have to raise our taxes or license fee's a bit, but I'm sure it would be much less than the cost of paying a private person to do the same job...after all state jobs just pay minumum wage...

[Twisted]

Was that a hijack?

I wouldn't care to respond without knowing if that was serious or if you're just screwing around & having fun with this....

[northerndave]

"You're not on fire Ricky Bobby!!"

lol!!

[Boar]

there we go! creating jobs in Minnesota. Now were onto something. See what happens wen we work together

[lichen fox]

Was that a hijack?

I wouldn't care to respond without knowing if that was serious or if you're just screwing around & having fun with this....

No, It wasn't intended as a hi-jack...and as far as being serious?? I was just responding to some of the comments..."why isn't the Dnr getting these public access points built, etc..." It all boils down to...if you're going to get out on the lake with a pickup and 20-30 foot wheel house, you have three options...pay someone to use their plowed access, and abide by "their" on the ice - off the ice at this access rules...drive to one of the public access points and on the ice, then check the ice thickness to make sure it is safe to proceed, and if you reach a breaker before you get to where you want to be you'll have to get out and find a safe area to cross or bridge that ice-heave or breaker and then proceed on...be sure to mark your trail so you can find the "safe" area's on your way back off the ice when you are finished...or, we can lobby for state administered, public ice roads like I said earlier...and no matter how you do it, there will always be someone out there that will act like they "own" the lake! And it won't just be private people that will give you that...I onced asked a DNR employee who owned a particular peice of property that wasn't clearly marked on the map I had...the response..."oh, that belongs to the DNR"...really? And, yes I'm having some fun, but that doesn't make any of this less true, does it?

[Twisted]

Definatly not a fan of the state road idea but on the other hand....

A lot of these popular bodies of water were a result of taxpayer funded, government projects. It may have been in part or it may have been the whole body of water.

Either way, the taxpayer has already had the burden of creating a public use area. I don't necessarily agree with a private entity limiting the public's use of it.

meh. that's me

[northerndave]

"You're not on fire Ricky Bobby!!"

lol!!

[Spicoli]

Now that's a teamate right there!

[DRAGFOOT]

Sorry for the long post, but I have to say this, I work in a customer service oriented business and always have in various forms. I think the problem in this case was that the person who said "or else" may not have the skills in dealing with people that so many of us now expect....you know, the customer is always right attitude etc. I visit the area quite frequently as I have family in the area, more so in the summer than winter but I have noticed that some individuals(not all) at various businesses are not real good with dealing with people and are sometimes not very friendly or very smooth, for lack of a better term. We as people have come to expect a high level of customer service in the more populated areas because if someone ticks me off, I can go to the next guy for whatever service he/she provides. In the LOW area, you really dont have a lot of options for many things so we have to take whats available and the service provider, (in some cases, not all)doesnt really need to learn how to deal with people because they may be the only game in town. Many places would go out of business if they had people like that running the show in a more populated area with more competition. Now, dont get me wrong, I am not bagging on people from the area, would love to become one of them someday but some people have not had the chance or have not been forced to learn how to deal with people in a little more diplomatic fasion. There are people that come across pretty harsh and seem sometimes inconvienced by your presence and its something we have to deal with as it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around and sometimes we have to deal with folks that can be unpleasant. Some people just really need to work on their delivery and this discussion sounds like it could have been avoided if the "or else" guy had a better way to deliver his message, then you might not feel so ticked off I bet.

[Ballyhoo]

I agree most of the distaste that this thread was actually trying for was the poor treatment and words from the particular individual with the bad manners.

I agree on the customer service, some places get it and some don't.

[WhiskeyPete]

Well, truth of the matter is this. Most of those guys making roads don't like the wheel houses or sleeper houses on the ice. It's money out of their pockets.

I won't say who, but one of the guys making a road across their access is asking for or maybe I should say DEMANDING $5/day for every day you leave your sleeper on the ice. Plus $10 to use the access onto the lake. If that isn't "renting a spot on the ice", I don't know what you'd call it!

[Twisted]

It will all find it's level. This push/pull for lack of better terms has been happening for years.

Do any of you remember the gill netting days? They came & went with some growing pains none the less.

This wheel house thing is just another obsticale for everyone to work thru & we will all be able to fish the greatest Walleye lake in MN or even the world.

It is a consumer based ecomomy & if the providers push the consumers out, there will be no income.

I'm in it for the long haul & will be able to ride it out. If not their is always Theif Lake!!!

[vman11]

Well, truth of the matter is this. Most of those guys making roads don't like the wheel houses or sleeper houses on the ice. It's money out of their pockets.

I completely disagree. I can't confirm that all of the resorts are full each weekend, but I haven't heard specific resorts being drastically short either. Seems like each year they are hauling more and more houses onto the ice to keep up with their clientel.

If anything this is bringing more economy to the resorts. Where do guys go when they want off the ice when the fishing slows at noon or when the fish don't bite in the evening? They eat a burger at their favorite place, have some drinks, take a shower, have their fish fried, buy bait, gas, propane, etc. Before wheelhouses there were still portables, but I would have to guess the numbers of fishermen traveling up at that point didn't out number of fishermen traveling up now. One area that I could see loosing a bit are the motels/hotels as more people are now spending the night on the ice. There will always be people who fish with resorts due to the ease of being transported to a warm, ready to fish shack.

I have noticed the same "attitudes" at resorts and places near the resorts. I know quite a few guys who would rather stop at the bait shop in Blackduck, for a couple different reasons.

[rustysetter]

Curt I agree,I am more than glad to pay the fees to use the resort roads, if they didn't provide this service I wouldn't be able to get out there most years. They also spend their time scouting early and making sure the ice is safe for the droves of people coming up there. It's a matter of choice, if you don't want to pay the fee or disagree with the amount then the public access is the choice for you.

[Twisted]

vman11

+1 as I see it

[certified jumbo]

I also agree rusty. I don't have a problem paying.

Bottom line.....if you don't like what the resort charges you, its customer service or its policies, find a different resort or plow your own road.

[Twisted]

On a normal year when there are snow banks it is their road because it is the only place you can drive and it is connected to their access.

It is a public lake. Go to Graceton beach and use that public access, make your own path through the rough ice, bring your own planks for crossing the pressure ridge and wonder if the ice in front of you is safe.

There is more that you are getting for the $10 than just the access to the lake but that is all they can charge you for.

jkb- With all due respect to you, I don't know if you are affiliated with a resort or not but.....

If I decide that I need to drive out of Graceton Beach or any other public access, my blade will be down & there will be no charge for anyone who wishes to follow.

I could do this anytime I want but do to my respect to the local business I won't.

You have said that I have no idea how much it takes to keep up this equipment but FYI I am a business owner & own/operate dozers, excavators, trail groomers, bombers, & every other chunk of equipment that many can imagine so please respect my opinion on knowledge of equipment maintenance.

I appreciate that if possible.

My whole point in this post wasn't the amount of work involved in maintaining these roads.

My point is private people/businesses deciding how much they will charge me per day for using public lands/waters.

I don't mean to offend anyone by my thread or statements but I think my intent has been skewed.

Good luck to all that enjoy our great resourses!

[Spicoli]

After reading through this thread from beginning to end, without skipping any of the posts, it isn't clear if anyone here is actually "affiliated" with any resorts. But it is quite obvious that some have their heads stuck in the sand.

If anyone hasn't yet, go back and read this thread from the beginning. It was made VERY clear from post one, that no one has an issue at all with paying an access fee, no one has anything but total respect for the hard work the resorts put in to create a passable road, and do their best to ensure the safety of everyone out there.

The issue is, when someone feels they can collect from another person for being out on a public body of water.

Northern Dave said it best. I will gladly pay to use a landing to access a lake, and if I am out on the lake for a week, I will gladly pay again to use the access to come off the lake. Not an issue at all.

In no way, shape, or form, does any individual have the right to charge you per day once you are out on that public area.

I would bet that a lot of people pass by my property on the way to the lake, on a public road. Does it make sense, or is it legal for me to collect a fee from them as they use that public road in my "territory" no. heck no. And being out on the public lake is no different.

So, pay to access across their property. No problem, always have and always will be happy to.

pay someone to be out on the lake. Don't think so scooter.

[Twisted]

I'm gonna move your house next time I'm up & send you a bill.

How do you like me now?!?!

oh. where did you leave it???

[The_King48]

WELL.... The reason I like going to LOTW (other than good fishing MOST days) is it was known in my circle of friends as a "working man's lake). What I mean is when I ordered a drink it was a good pour, or if I ordered a burger it was of good portion size. I noticed a couple of years ago that a certain resort starting doing one pour drinks and down sized the portions of food. We all know that one (resort) was always high priced, but some other resorts on the POINT are following there lead. I think it has a lot to do with greed. Now on the other hand I have NO problem paying for a road pass for my wheel house. But I don't think I should have to pay $40 bucks to fish 3 days. If this is going to be the norm, I guess I will just have to stay way. Other people can make there own decsions. Also for all of you who say that us GUYS in wheel houses don't support local businesses I have to disagree with you. I know that I buy propane, bait, jigs, beer, whiskey, gas, misc groceries, and other items. Some wheel house owners might be free loaders but imo most are not. Like I said this is my opinion. Sorry about my rant, and grammer. Be safe on the ice.

[Ballyhoo]

I did not mean to disrespect you either, just trying to show the other side of the coin. If you saw my last post, I agreed your original point on how you were treated and how the person acted was wrong.

I am not affiliated with any resort but have a place up there and have fished out of several of them and know quite a few of the guides at different places.

[CigarGuy]

WELL.... The reason I like going to LOTW (other than good fishing MOST days) is it was known in my circle of friends as a "working man's lake). What I mean is when I ordered a drink it was a good pour, or if I ordered a burger it was of good portion size. I noticed a couple of years ago that a certain resort starting doing one pour drinks and down sized the portions of food. We all know that one (resort) was always high priced, but some other resorts on the POINT are following there lead. I think it has a lot to do with greed. Now on the other hand I have NO problem paying for a road pass for my wheel house. But I don't think I should have to pay $40 bucks to fish 3 days. If this is going to be the norm, I guess I will just have to stay way. Other people can make there own decisions. Also for all of you who say that us GUYS in wheel houses don't support local businesses I have to disagree with you. I know that I buy propane, bait, jigs, beer, whiskey, gas, misc groceries, and other items. Some wheel house owners might be free loaders but imo most are not. Like I said this is my opinion. Sorry about my rant, and grammer. Be safe on the ice.

It's interesting you mentioned the price and portion sizes have changed. I ordered food at a popular place we stop at(right off Adrains access) every time we come up there. They don't have burger baskets anymore and when you order a burger you have to order fries separately at a cost of I think $3.50+. Think it was over $12.00 for a burger and fries. Said something to the waitress and she said most all the resorts are starting to do it. Funny thing, I just went to their website to check the menu and it shows hamburger comes with fries for $8.00-must be old! Next night we ate at the resort I stayed at and got a better tasting burger and fries for $8.00ish:) Don't want to sound cheep, but I needed to vent.

[Twisted]

I did not mean to disrespect you either, just trying to show the other side of the coin. If you saw my last post, I agreed your original point on how you were treated and how the person acted was wrong.

I am not affiliated with any resort but have a place up there and have fished out of several of them and know quite a few of the guides at different places.

OK. We can be friends then.

Can I crash at your place? I'll plow you out...

[WhiskeyPete]

My point is the resorts are finding "new and innovative" ways to suck the cash out of a working man's wallet.

[graceton_gaffer]

You could always purchase a lot, build a cabin ect. pay taxes, heat, power, like I did, I can access any time I want, don' t have to pay 10 bucks. WELL MAYBE 10 BUCKS ISN'T MUCH TO PAY FOR ACCESS AFTER I THINK ABOUT IT..