Mille Lacs Tullibees,

[monstermoose78]

nice work dro

[chris63]

Do you need to get those preserved at an authorized bait dealer to reuse those as bait?c63

[aanderud]

Preserved? Heckno, you want stinky and raw and oily and gooey.

[castmaster]

I think he was referring to the new regs regarding bait in MN.

[DTro]

I'm not up on the current regs for Tulibees, but if so I'll just smoke them instead.

[Alagnak]

You better get a safety certificate, bait dealers license, and a Coast Guard 6-pac license to transport those too. We do live in MN ya know! Permits, regs, and more permits. ;-)

I'm not up on the current regs for Tulibees, but if so I'll just smoke them instead.

[aanderud]

I guess I don't know how to keep up with the nanny state. I read all 84 pages of the mn fishing regulations for 2010, which the DNR says is up to date with changes over the course of the year.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/fishing/fishing2010.pdf

I read the experimental regulations by species

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/fishing/specialfish.pdf

I read the special whitefish and cicoe netting regulations that came out Nov 18, 2010....

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/fishing/whitefish_regs.pdf

And yet none of those said anything about the preservation rules for ciscoes. Wow. I love our nanny state. So many rules they can't even afford to keep their rulebooks up to date. The extra bits on the internet must be pretty expensive.

[Spearing Machine]

The rules and regulations for cisco/smelt came out after the fishing guide book was printed for this year (2010). There was a reason that you never saw it in there.

This is from the DNR website regarding the issue...

6262.0576 CISCO AND RAINBOW SMELT PRESERVATION.

Subpart 1. Preservation required for bait; documentation.

A. A person may not use cisco or rainbow smelt for bait while taking wild

animals in waters of the state unless the cisco or rainbow smelt have been preserved

consistent with this part and as further prescribed by the commissioner.

B. Except when legally harvesting cisco or rainbow smelt, a person on, or

taking wild animals in, waters of the state may not possess cisco or rainbow smelt unless

the cisco or rainbow smelt have been preserved according to this part, the person possesses

all labeling as prescribed in subpart 5, and the person retains the labeling until the cisco or

rainbow smelt are used and no longer in possession.

Subp. 2. Permit required to preserve cisco and rainbow smelt. A person must

obtain a cisco and rainbow smelt preservation permit to preserve cisco and rainbow smelt

in Minnesota for use as bait in waters of the state. Only persons with a minnow dealer,

minnow retailer, private fish hatchery, commercial netting, fish packer, fishing guide, or

aquatic farm license issued by the commissioner are eligible for a permit.

Subp. 3. Preservation methods. Preservation methods that are permitted include

use of mineral oil, isopropyl alcohol, or a salt and borax mixture or other methodsdetermined by the commissioner to effectively inactivate the viral hemorrhagic 2.1 septicemia

(VHS) virus. Freezing or refrigeration is not an approved preservation method. Methods

may include a minimum processing time to ensure complete inactivation of the virus. A

permittee must follow all preservation procedures and times prescribed in the permit and

may not distribute or sell preserved bait until all permit requirements are met.

Subp. 4. Reporting requirements. A holder of a cisco and rainbow smelt

preservation permit must maintain records on forms provided by the commissioner for

each lot of fish preserved. The records must include the method of preservation, lot

number for each batch of fish preserved, source waterbody of the fish preserved, and other

information as specified on the reporting form. A permittee must enter required records

into forms within 24 hours of processing each lot of fish. A permittee must retain records

for three years following the year of creation. All records required to be retained must be

open to inspection by the commissioner at any reasonable time.

[DTro]

How is a person supposed to find that???

Here's what I see:

The online version of the 2010 Fishing Regulations contains the latest corrections to the printed version. Update arrows point to changes and corrected text is highlighted, usually in green.

[aanderud]

Thanks for the update.

I still have to wonder why it's not in the guide or on the DNR website. The reason it's not in the guide is that they're lazy, not because the rule changed after they printed the guide. They have updated MANY other regulations in the online guide since it was printed. That's why I use the online guide, it says specifically:

Quote:

The online version of the 2010 Fishing Regulations contains the latest corrections to the printed version. Update arrows point to changes and corrected text is highlighted, usually in green.

Furthermore, the press release that I have now seen quoted here (after extensive google searching) is not even available on their press release site....it was a September 30 2010 press release.

http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/

You can scroll down and you see Nov 1 as the last release on page 1 on the link above. Then when you go click "previous releases" (again, because I heard a rumor that there was one on September 30) it skips down to August 27 on page 2. There is no September 30 release shown for some reason.

However, the direct link still works (which I found through HSO, again through google).

http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/index.php/20...ved/#more-43880

The funniest quote was this:

Quote:

With cisco and whitefish netting season upon us, it’s imperative that people understand the new rule

If that's the case, why don't they print it in the NETTING REGULATIONS GUIDE that was printed on NOVEMBER 18!!!

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/fishing/whitefish_regs.pdf

[Spearing Machine]

Its been talked about significantly in a couple different areas here on HSO-FM and I am active in natural resources to keep up on new topics. I know for a fact I also read articles about it in the Outdoor News and Star Tribune.

Just do a simple search on the MN DNR site for "cisco" and it will be the fifth hit that appears. According to the document it was PUBLISHED 10-04-2010, EFFECTIVE 10-04-2010, and EXPIRES 04-04-2012 (18 months)

[aanderud]

Yes, I understand that it's findable. You only have to know where to look (and that you HAVE to look). This is unfortunate, that's all I'm saying.

If they've got a SPECIAL REGULATION BOOK SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED TO THIS SPECIES THAT WAS PUBLISHED ON NOV 18, WHY IS THE PRESERVATION NOT LISTED THERE?

This is more of our taxpayer dollars at work. I'll bet money it doesn't show up in the 2011 guide either.

[DTro]

Right!

What I'm saying is that I buy a license, I get a book. Ok it's not in that book. I search the entire "updated" PDF online. Nope not there either.

At that point would I assume that I'm good to go?

They cannot expect the average person to find this hidden press release can they?

[aanderud]

The 5th link! Ha. That's comical. If I go search for cisco on their page (do a simple search)....then I get a BUNCH of results.

Quote:

Results 1 - 10 of about 326 for cisco. Search took 0.12 seconds

And I'm supposed to know to click on the 5th link to see that I can't use ciscos for bait any more as of Oct 4? It doesn't even say that on the "summary" that the search engine returns, I actually have to click the link to read it! LOL.

High quality nanny regulations at work.

Wow. This must be a joke. Where is the hidden camera? Honestly. Why wouldn't it be the first link? Why wouldn't the summary say the IMPORTANT details? LOL.

[Spearing Machine]

I don't make the rules I just posted them here for you. Please don't shoot the messenger!!! I don't want to start a fight here, all I will say is it has been talked about a lot both here and I have seen it numerous places in print. It is impossible for them (DNR) to be able to reach every single angler or sport-fisher that it pertains to. If it bothers you that much give someone at the DNR a call and express your concern or maybe they will give you a better explanation. ENOUGH SAID!!

[DTro]

It is impossible for them (DNR) to be able to reach every single angler or sport-fisher that it pertains to.

A simple update of the online regs is all it would take.

Back to Tulibee fishing.....

[aanderud]

I'm not shooting the messenger. In fact, you'll note that I thanked you for bringing it to my attention.

I only started to get a bit feisty (not with you, just in general) when it became obvious that the DNR is trying to set a trap for folks here. They have plenty of places to print that regulation, including their own "press releases" page (which must have originally had it, but now doesn't show the sept 30 link). Also in the "updated" booklet. Also, in the whitefish and cisco netting regulations that were printed over a month later than the rule change. Or most simply, just put a link to it on their "regulations" page that has become my one-stop for regulations questions.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/regulations/fishing/index.html

No, they can't give me a personal phone call about a rule change mid year. But they CAN reach almost everybody by posting it in OBVIOUS locations on their site. I simply expect them to do their job, and updating the simple "regulations" site with a link to the PDF showing the rule change is easy as pie. The other options I've suggested might be more work, since it involves editing an already-release document. But come on guys, show some competence!

[DTro]

I was informed by a kind DNR employee that the reg is located in the Emergency Rule Making area of the website. That satifies me. Thanks

[broman]

I'm trying to follow this conversation... are you guys arguing about using Tulibee (parts or whole) for bait?

[aanderud]

Broman, yes, apparently the DNR changed the regulations on using tulibee (ciscoes) for bait effective Oct 4. They expect people to know this even though they don't publish the information in the obvious locations. Here's the full copy of the release that spearing machine quoted earlier.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/aboutdnr/laws_treaties/emergency_rules/2010_smeltciscobait.pdf

The new regulation doesn't show up on the "fishing" page below of the DNR (even though you'll notice that there are several links, one being to special regulations for Mille Lacs, in fact, but still doesn't include the tulibee regulation):

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fishing

It also doesn't show up on the "fishing regulations" page of the DNR, even though they have at least a DOZEN links to everything from their general regulations to pool 5 regulations to Mille Lacs regulations to WHITEFISH SPORT GILL NETTING regulations...the list goes on:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/regulations/fishing/

It does show up if you specifically search for "cisco" on the DNR page -- it's only the 5th link. But the question is, why would I be searching for "cisco" on the DNR page if I read about them in the 84 page main document and saw nothing saying that using them for bait was illegal?

And as Dtro mentioned, the regulation also shows up as a link from the "emergency" rules page...

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/aboutdnr/laws_treaties/emergency_rules/docs.html

But again, the "emergency" rules page is inexplicably absent from the main "regulations" page. Wouldn't it seem like the "EMERGENCY" regulations would be at least as important as some of the other links there? Like, maybe it could go right under the "aquatic hitchikers" link or something? I don't know. If they can put ALL of the following special links on the main 'regulations' page, why not also a link to the 'EMERGENCY' regulations. Must not be that big of an emergency.

Quote:

# Seasonal Closures This is a PDF file. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to download it.

# Current whitefish sport gill netting regulation pdf

# 2010-11 Mille Lacs Lake Regulations

# Trout Seasons

* The lake trout season for lakes entirely within the BWCAW is January 1 to March 31.

* The lake trout season for all other lakes is January 15 to March 31.

* The stream trout season on all lakes (in and out of the BWCAW) is January 15 to March 31.

# Upper Red Lake

* Angling regulations This is a PDF file. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to download it.

* State anglers legal fishing boundary

# Exemptions and fishing licenses issued without a fee

# Experimental and special fishing regulations

# Mississippi River bluegill experimental regulation maps

* Pool 5 pdf

* Pool 5A pdf

* Pool 8 pdf

# Fishing tournament regulations

# Help Stop Aquatic Hitchhikers (30 sec mp3)

# Fishing licenses

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of all the regulation that the state has. I love being nannied around. I just think it's a bit ridiculous that they have so many regulation pages they can't even link to their own 'emergency regulation' page from the main regulation page.

So I guess the next time you read the 84 page main 'regulations' guide for an idea of what's illegal....and you THINK you might be following the law....don't forget to do a quick simple search, reading ALL 326 or more returned links. You never know which of those links MIGHT have a new regulation that pertains to your activity. If no new regulations have been uncovered, next you gotta be sure to do a web crawl of every HSO and HSO-like site on the internet looking for your planned activity. And if none of those say it's illagel, there's always the other simple task of just going through the statutes of minnesota. If you're cleared on all of those fronts, you MIGHT be doing something that's legal. But there's no guarantee.

[pushbutton]

sooo.....what your saying is no dinner for me?

[hardcore365]

Tullie hole in 36 fow was producing tullies yasterday (fri 11). 3 guys in ports right next to us were slammin em. Didn't get a final count but I was by them for about an hour and I swear they were pulling em up as fast as they could get down. I didnt get to see what they were using, and as for were they were they wern't more than a hundred yard from the x-mas tree. good luck and hopefully you catch more fish than I did.

[diggn7]

Any reports today? Thinking about heading up that way tomorrow.

[perchslayer29]

I'm going out looking for pretty much just tuilibees what flat would everyone recomend. What would people recomend for depth, lures and tecnique and info would be greatly appreated. I'm going out of hunters point resort tomorrow and would like to put my women on fish for she doesnet get bored early on. Thanks in advance

[DTro]

We did pretty well today. Had a lot of fun. I had good luck with a custom rattln flyer

jig like crazy and finesse them when they came in.

[ANYFISH2]

DTRO, I see you took another go with the tullibees, it's funny how a "non-gamefish" can become addicting to catch.

We did well sunday, two guys, 90+ tullies. We finally got some of the truly large tullibees, 4 over 18". We also caught 25 perch and 1 walleye(27").

[Shack]

Yeah it was fun Saturday. The catfish legends came out of their slumber even. The crowd on the west side of that flat was all cat fishing guys. I should get some smoked tullie soon and it has been at least 12 years since I had any. Darren's lure is it. BA can confirm that silver chain out fishes gangster gold. Good times and nice seeing the flathead crowd again.

[Spearing Machine]

DTRO, I see you took another go with the tullibees, it's funny how a "non-gamefish" can become addicting to catch.

We did well sunday, two guys, 90+ tullies. We finally got some of the truly large tullibees, 4 over 18". We also caught 25 perch and 1 walleye(27").

Is that how many tullibees you kept or caught??? It better not have been kept because the limit is just 10 per person and you would have been just a bit over your limit.

[perchslayer29]

what flat where u on

[Shack]

I would say that is total caught & release. You be a fool to be over your limit. DNR everywhere. Had a sheriff stop by on sleds yesterday and asked how the bite was & about the tullie action.

I do not fish & tell because I was the one who received a call to get over here, but at the DNR check point set up at the main drive on/off spot mentioned, word is almost any mud is soaked with tullies. Get up while the getting is good. Everyone I spoke with this weekend had found some, with reports of hundreds being caught.