Best grains out of .308?

[lungdeflator]

Im shooting a Remington Model 700 .308 with 170 grain bullets. I have shot 15 plus deer with this combo but have never dropped one in its tracks. Others in my group shoot similar guns in the .300 family and have had success with lighter grains. Would dropping grains in the .308 help puttin more deer down faster?

[DrKen]

I, too, have shot a .308 and have used bullets from 150 gr to 180 thru 40 plus years of using the gun. Only had 2 drop in their tracks but never had one go over 50 yds with a heart/lung shot. Killing a animal depends on a lot of factors including bullet performance, shot placement and the animal. I have never felt that I should drop an animal in it's tracks and am very happy to have it run only a short distance. Frankly, I don't feel any gun will drop most deer in their tracks with a heart/lung shot. If you are finding the deer run only a short ways and you aren't having to chase wounded deer who have been fatally shot then I wouldn't worry. More important to be able to put the bullet where you want it.

[Gordie]

very well put DrKen. Each deer is differnt and each time you pull the trigger on one will be differnt so no two situations are the same for that matter.

I have dropped deer in there tracks but it wasnt a heart/lung shot the deer I have shot in the heart only go 10-30 yrds and pile up the lung shot how ever is a bit differnt from 30 - 100yrds and only one of them being 100yrds most of them I have shot have gone 30-50 yrds.

I just started shooting a .308 this year and I'm shooting 150 grain bullets and I think that is more than enough to put a deer down with the proper shot placement and thats what its about.

I typically shoot a 30-06 with speer 165 boatails and I have no problems dropping deer.

Its great to see a deer pile up in its track but if your hitting them where it counts and you dont have to track them 100's and 100's of yards then I would be satisfied with the end result of a deer down.

[klecker]

Have ever noticed on hunting shows that the deer shot with a gun always seem to drop dead. Well the last two I have shot they dropped in there tracks. I place the shot 1/3 down from top of back right behind front shoulder. Not a spin shot but in the upper area of chest taking out both lungs. I was told that there are alot of nerves in this area and the shock just puts them right down. Between deflating both lungs and the shock to the nerve system they just drop. I done this on the last two deer and so far it works.

[sparkydm]

I've been using a .308 for many years. I wasn't happy with factory ammo. Deer always ran farther than I liked so I started hand loading several years ago. This year I used a Barnes TSX 130 gr. loaded to about 2900 FPS. I shot two deer in Wisc. this year. One went about 30 feet. The other went about 30 yards. Very happy with this bullet! As others have stated there are various factors involved in killing quickly, I feel velocity is an important factor as well. Try 150 gr. Also, it is important to use a bullet that is meant for whitetails, fired within it's intended velocity range.

[paceman]

Before I switched to the 06 I used a 308 for about 10 years. I never had any issues with deer traveling far after being shot. Some would drop on the spot some would run 30-50 yards. Never lost a deer. I always used factory loaded 150 grains. I always thought it was a fine deer rifle.

[lungdeflator]

ok thanks guys, i know shot placement is the ultimate factor but i was just wondering if there was something else that would give me an edge if i was off just a little bit. were i hunt is in the thick and nasty so having them go over 100 yards isnt good.

[paul pachowicz]

For some reason the .308 has always intrigued me. One of these days I'll get the impluse to get a new gun in that caliber. From my readings the best hunting loads are derived from 42.6 to 49.9 (hot) with 748 while the best accuracy loads are 40.0 to 48.2 (hot) with IMR4064 with the Sierra 150 grain spitzer with a sec den of .226 Anyway, I'm not sure what is meant by "off a little bit". To me, off alittle bit means a miss or a non killing shot, which, probably shouldn't be attempted. I don't care how large a bullet or caliber is being used. The .308 has been touted as being the most inherently accurate .30 caliber catridge ever developed. That said, there is NO getting an edge if you are off a little bit.

[WaveWacker]

Dad shot and I both shoot BAR .308's and I have to say that the majority of the deer that we have been fortunate enough lay the cross hairs on have dropped right in their tracks. The lower heart shot ones seem to run but the blood trail is one that a blind person could follow. If a decision has to be made fast it's just put the cross hairs behind the shoulder.

Through all the years, we have religiously shot 165gr. Federal Premium Sierra gameking BTSP and now 165gr. Federal Fusions. I dropped my 8 in MN in his tracks at 20 yds and then put a 282lb Sask. buck straight down at 100yds. Dad's Sask. buck ran about 25yds but the blood was everywhere.

Oh, I've been shooting mine since 89' and dad since sometime in the 70's.

[Archerysniper]

I have had very good results with the 150 grain rem core locks shoots 1/2 inch or smaller groups at 100 yards and the deer normally don't make it 50 yards

[Gordie]

Dad shot and I both shoot BAR .308's and I have to say that the majority of the deer that we have been fortunate enough lay the cross hairs on have dropped right in their tracks. The lower heart shot ones seem to run but the blood trail is one that a blind person could follow. If a decision has to be made fast it's just put the cross hairs behind the shoulder.

Through all the years, we have religiously shot 165gr. Federal Premium Sierra gameking BTSP and now 165gr. Federal Fusions. I dropped my 8 in MN in his tracks at 20 yds and then put a 282lb Sask. buck straight down at 100yds. Dad's Sask. buck ran about 25yds but the blood was everywhere.

Oh, I've been shooting mine since 89' and dad since sometime in the 70's.

cool I wasnt sure if they had 165 grain for .308's and for some reason I love that grain in my 06 as well I will be looking for those or reloading them for myself

[Phred52]

Paul, Actually, There is a way to try the .308 round if you currently shoot a 30-06 bolt. It's an insert that is placed in the chamber and fire formed to the gun with the first .308 round fired. It can be removed at any time and replaced later. So you have a .308/ 30-06 rifle. It comes from a company out in Washington State that manufactures items for the military. When my Dad started showing his age, his 30-06 was just too brutal on him, so I ordered one and it gave him about 9 more years of successful deer hunting. Just need to be mindful of which ammo to bring. I read about it in 'Shooting Times Magazine' Phred52

[Gordie]

PH52 what was the cost of the insert? if you dont mind me asking I would like to try one out.

[paul pachowicz]

WOW!!!!!....never heard of that. I'm sure gonna look into that just for kicks. Thanks a BUNCH!!! I'll ask my "smith" buddy about em. I do remember there were inserts for shotguns that were called "4-10ers" They fit into any guage shotgun and you could shot 410's out of em. We used em extensively when I was stationed in Turkey.

[Phred52]

Paul, I looked around here a bit and did find the info on those inserts! Blew me away too!! I tried to google the company but seems they don't have a website. Info sheet has a phone number on it. Inserts were made to convert the U.S. Navy M-1 Garand rifles, first to NATO 7.62 Rounds eventually .308. The whole story is on the sheet. This insert is NOT recommended for auto loaders as the quick cycling could eject the insert along with the spent round. Interested?? I could scan this sheet and email to you. Phred52

[paul pachowicz]

By all means, please do. I did talk to a "smith" and he wasn't aware of this product either. But, his immediate thought was concern with headspace. Thanks for the offer.

[email protected]

[Phred52]

Paul, It should be in your email. Hope it's clear enough that you can read it. As far as the headspace, That's about all it is! It's a small sleeve about 1" long that looks like the front of a 30-06 case, to take up the headspace difference between the .308 and the 30-06. It also came with the 'extraction tool', basically a 'broken case' remover. We took the insert out of Dads rifle after every deer season so a) nobody accidentally tried to use it as the 30-06 and so the insert didn't corrode into place. We put it in to check zero in the fall and he was good to go for another season. Let me know that you did recieve the sheet, okay? Thanks, Phred52

[Phred52]

Paul, Did it finally get through? I got 2 'Delivery failure' notices. I used upper case in one and lower case in the second.

[Gordie]

Phred52 ould you please email me specs and where on that at

machonellc@yahoo dot com

Thanks i would like to set one of my 06's for the son

[Phred52]

Elwood, Sure will! Sorry, It's so late, I 'lost' posession of the computer to the daughter. . Paul got it, it's a little blurry, If you can't read it let me know I'll try a rescan. Please confirm that it did get to you. Thanks, Phred52

[Gordie]

Phred didnt recive it [email protected]

[Phred52]

elwood, I just sent it again. Let me know, okay? Sorry I didn't respond to your first post. I don't know todays cost, The cost per/ea in '94 or '95 was $15. 10 or more the cost was $10 ea. Each one comes with it's own removal tool. Once fireformed, the insert is NOT to be used in any other firearm. Phred52

[Gordie]

got it Phred thanks for the info I think I'm going to give it a try this summer and next season

[lungdeflator]

So a deers heart and lungs only make up a portion of the body. If you only have a few seconds to get the hairs on it and pull the trigger than sometimes less than perfect shots are the result. Up in the thick northwoods and swamps these shots are not uncommon.

This is the question then for "being off a little". Is there a load that will expand its energy inside the animal and still take some vitals even if I miss them by an inch or two?

[Gordie]

So a deers heart and lungs only make up a portion of the body. If you only have a few seconds to get the hairs on it and pull the trigger than sometimes less than perfect shots are the result. Up in the thick northwoods and swamps these shots are not uncommon.

This is the question then for "being off a little". Is there a load that will expand its energy inside the animal and still take some vitals even if I miss them by an inch or two?

if there is that guy should be a millonaire in no time.

That would take all the fun out of it

[DrKen]

That's actually what a expanding bullet is designed to do. All bullets put a shockwave out in the internal organs. Since the soft body parts are largely water this causes a great deal of damage to organs the bullet passes through or near. In ballistic gelatin this is charachterized by the wound channel being larger that the diameter of the expanded bullet. the cells of the adjacent organ may explode or just swell and die or not work as well as they should. So if you do miss the heart by a bit it still has damage done to it. If you hit back behind the diaphragm you can damage the liver and also get a lethal hit. The problem is will the animal live long enough to get away from the hunter. This is the point to picking appropriate bullets for the game being hunted. You must balance penetration and expansion for the highest degree of lethality. Thus said, it does not excuse taking a poor shot. The heart/lung region is a large target of say 8-10 inches round in a deer. Practice on a paper plate offhand and quick until you can hit it consistently or don't take the quick shot. Let the animal go, there is always another. Limit your shots to those you can make.

[GBPackerNut]

Another thing no one mentioned I saw is what is your barrels twist rate? My 308 with a 1:10 twist likes bullets in the 168-180 grain weight, but does not like lighter bullets. But my 308 with a 1:13 twist likes the 155 grains best.

this affects accuracy more than anything, if you are shooting 100 yards average it wont matter as much to you, biggest thing is make sure you are using game rounds not target rounds. I like the Barnes X bullets for dropping animals, where I like speer and hornadys for loading target rounds.

[Gordie]

GBPN what type of guns in .308 do you have?

[GBPackerNut]

One is a Savage model 10 Law Enforcement it has a 1 in 10 twist. I think the model is 10FP-LE2. The other is a Remington 700 with an aftermarket barrel, it twists 1 in 12 or 13 (I would have to run a rod down it to make sure) and really loves the 155 lapua bullets. The higher twist rate will stabilize a heavier bullet.

When reloaded you need to experiment some, my savage barrel likes the bullets seated deeper, and tends to like heavier rounds. But a good all around is 168 grains, it tends to do very well in both. Now for hunting don't worry, going from 155 to 168 on my rem, is only a difference maybe 1/2" at 100 yards. so if I'm off by 1" at 200 yards doesn't really matter. The only time I get picky is when going out for some serious distance.

Going back to your original question, the 308 is plenty capable of dropping game quickly. Mostly a matter of shot placement, and keeping the heart rate down, you would be amazed how many people get too excited and poorly place a shot, or even better yet completely miss the shot.

enjoy the rifle, 308 has to be probably the most versatile round I can think of. The great thing is down the road if you get sick of it you could always rebarrel the action for 243Win, 260Rem, 7mm-08, and countless other wildcats based on the 308 cartridge.

[swamptiger]

Bought a .308 Marlin Express at a gun show yesterday. Think I'm really going to like this one...