Trading or releasing T-Jack by Friday?

[AWH]

Do you really feel that TJ is an elite QB?

If he was an elite QB he wouldn't be the number 2 guy, he'd be starting and there would have been no reason to bring in Favre this year. I'm sure every T-Jack hater and supporter can agree on that. The difference is that the T-Jack haters have already come to a conclusion on T-Jack's entire career and the other side is willing to see things play out.

Look at the list of backup QBs around the league. Even starters. Elite QBs aren't exactly easy to come by and few get there over night.

Aaron

[fishin58]

Do you really feel that TJ is an elite QB? He's is a tremendous athlete for sure, but elite he is not. In looking for young quarterbacks, we need to be looking for elite! We have the best back in the league, an emerging receiving corps, one of the top 5 defenses for the past couple years. Let's get a QB in the next draft that has elite potential (Booty never did either) and develop him correctly behind a roster of quality players. If (yeah big IF) Favre plays for both years of his contract, our receivers will have played with a quality passer, and will have learned to help their quarterback out of tough situations. What better setup for a young QB to come into. I can't imagine that TJ hasn't lost a lot of confidence over the last two years, and that can be very difficult to regain. TJ has had plenty of chances, and while they may not have been in the best situations, he's not the right guy behind center. We have a runner (AP)...we need a passer.

Most of what you wrote swimbait makes sense but why start from scratch with a QB??

So NOW that TJ has weapons on O, lets go out and draft a NEW QB??? Sure, that makes sense.....TJ will be ready to go as soon as he is called upon.

All of you have whined and screamed to have the the Browns QB's ask them how that is working out.

[CodyDawg]

Wow, you guys act like TJ has had all these great games but for some reason he has never had a fair opportunity. he had 2 years to claim the position and he did not. He never displayed the potential that would lead a reasonable person to believe he had it in him to become a great QB...or even a good one.

You guys claimed we did not have a high yardage passing offense so that is why TJ didnt pass for 250 yards even once in his 19 starts. Then Favre does it in his 3rd game and you have to eat crow. How does that crow taste by the way??? I would add a little Famous Dave's BBQ sauce, that stuff will make anything palatable.

[Jim Panfish Uran]

.You guys claimed we did not have a high yardage passing offense so that is why TJ didnt pass for 250 yards even once in his 19 starts.

I know he had at least one, probably more. But if he was so elite, they wouldn't have brought in Sage, or Bruce Farber.

[Jim Panfish Uran]

I retract that last statement of mine, after some research I see he had one game where he threw 249 yds and nothing more than that ever.

[koonie]

[fishin58]

YOU dont think Braylen is better then our recievers as whole the lost 3 years?

Really, I am not the one pinig over every meatball 10th year Qb that hits free agency. Pennington, Garcia, Sage, Gus, Quinn, Anderson, Vick, Cassel, Thipgen, Cutler and just about any Qb that gets released or YOU think we should get.

You guys would have a different QB every week if you could.

So Leech as happy as many of you were when Sage came, yes he was competition for TJ for the 1 spot that turned into the back-up. And WE all know who won that battle whether you will admit it or not.

[AWH]

Watching the Monday Night game this week, the comment was made that Romo is still developing. He's been in the league for 7 years and he has now started 42 games. But he's still developing according to some people that are around the game more than anyone on this board. I guess it's too much to think that a QB that was labeled as a PROJECT when he was drafted and didn't play at the highest level of college competition could still need time to develop? Why is this such an outrageous idea?

Aaron

[CodyDawg]

AWH,

I will answer you as honestly as I can without getting into the bickering. this is must my opinion.

Because I dont see the potential in TJ. If i would have seen an occasional game where he passed for 340 yards and 5 picks...310 yards and 6 picks....a quarter here and there where he shredded a defense that was playing honest defense, i would be with you. But in my opinion, and a lot of others i think, he was in charge of an offense that defenses double dog dared to pass and he couldnt do it. nothing about his game impresses me. he has good tools, but his game is lacking. I have heard rumors that they simplified the playbook for him (admittedly a rumor, but a friend is close to some of the coaches). I just havent seen the potential. I maintain that 90% of and NFL QB is between the ears and not the tools. there are a lot of guys who can chuck the nut so to speak. Very few can read a defense and make the plays consistently.

[HOT SPOT]

Ya t-Junk could be a decent q-b in 4-5 years but we need one NOW to show leadership and make big play.while we have got the best D-line the best running back to help hi get a championship. Everyone has potential, I could still make it to the NHL, But if your going to wait for it it could be a long time.

[Jim Panfish Uran]

So Leech as happy as many of you were when Sage came, yes he was competition for TJ for the 1 spot that turned into the back-up. And WE all know who won that battle whether you will admit it or not.

I'll gladly admit I was wrong, but not by much. I still can't believe you are arguing for Tjack... LMAO!!! He still isn't a good enough QB to lead us to anything.

[AWH]

CodyDawg,

That's not a bad assessment at all. And I can understand that take. As much as I agree that they have simplified the playbook for him, I believe he has also been a product of the system he's been in. Look at the first two games this year. The first half of both of these games they looked as conservative as they always did with T-Jack. Favre really didn't do anything to separate himself from what T-Jack has done if you just look at those 4 quarters of football. I'm not comparing the talent level of the two. Favre is obviously a far better QB. The point is that he can only do so much given the situation he's been put in. And as a result of that, I don't think we've really seen what T-Jack is capable of other than brief moments here or there.

It's good to see that Chilly is apparently allowing Favre to make some of his own decisions on the field. This is something he hasn't done much of at all with any of his previous QBs, not just T-Jack. It would be interesting to see what T-Jack would do if given those same freedoms. He could flop, he could shine. But we don't know. I think that's what all of us would like to see. He's probably better off in a different system that's not expected to win immediately, where the team is willing to take more chances. I would love to see a situation where the Vikings have home field advantage wrapped up before the last couple weeks of the season. Have Favre play a half, and unleash T-Jack in the second half so we can really see what we've got and what he's learned being behind number 4 all year.

Aaron

[Swimbait2009]

CodyDawg,

That's not a bad assessment at all. And I can understand that take. As much as I agree that they have simplified the playbook for him, I believe he has also been a product of the system he's been in. Look at the first two games this year. The first half of both of these games they looked as conservative as they always did with T-Jack. Favre really didn't do anything to separate himself from what T-Jack has done if you just look at those 4 quarters of football. I'm not comparing the talent level of the two. Favre is obviously a far better QB. The point is that he can only do so much given the situation he's been put in. And as a result of that, I don't think we've really seen what T-Jack is capable of other than brief moments here or there.

It's good to see that Chilly is apparently allowing Favre to make some of his own decisions on the field. This is something he hasn't done much of at all with any of his previous QBs, not just T-Jack. It would be interesting to see what T-Jack would do if given those same freedoms. He could flop, he could shine. But we don't know. I think that's what all of us would like to see. He's probably better off in a different system that's not expected to win immediately, where the team is willing to take more chances. I would love to see a situation where the Vikings have home field advantage wrapped up before the last couple weeks of the season. Have Favre play a half, and unleash T-Jack in the second half so we can really see what we've got and what he's learned being behind number 4 all year.

Aaron

Now we're getting somewhere! You have to think that the people that spend a whole lot more time with these players (the coaches) have a pretty good idea what they trust their players to do. I think the fact that Chilly has already come around (for one game anyway) to opening the playbook a bit after only three games for Brett, proves that as much as he loves TJack, Chilly just doesn't trust him. He's his pet project and that's why he stands behind him...he's all Tjack's got! Tjack has started 19 games and played time in 8 others (2 of those being the Victory formations this season), if you're coach and his staff doesn't trust you after that long (it's been three years) then they probably never will.

I completely agree with you, that in a different environment he could still thrive. Our team is at the point where we need to perform NOW. Management has assembled the talent all over the field to reach deeply into the postseason. Question marks have surrounded Tjack ever since he played in his first game in purple. In two years, we will need a new QB. Do you want to continue trying to answer Tjacks questions? Or do we want someone with a little more between the ears? There is no doubt that Tjack is a gifted athlete. It takes more than that to play QB in the NFL. (I think he would make a HELL of an Arena QB) But the abundance of options in the receiving game actually works against him, because he can't decide who to throw the ball to soon enough, and that forces him to abandon the pocket and our receivers to alter routes. At this point, once the play has broken down, you can't predict where the receivers are going, because they're guessing where you're going. This is not the way to run an efficient and accurate offense. There is some crazy talent coming out this year. Let's go get it!

[AWH]

The fact that Chilly has had a leash on every QB he's had in MN, not just T-Jack, is what concerns me. If Chilly is still around once Favre is gone, does it matter who the QB is if he just puts the leash back on? Whether it's been a raw QB like Jackson or a veteran that's won a Super Bowl in Brad Johnson, Chilly hasn't allowed them much freedom.

IF Chilly is still around after the Favre era, the biggest thing we can hope for is that CHILLY has learned something from Favre and the fact that he needs to let go sometimes and let the QB make some decisions.

Aaron

[Swimbait2009]

Two for two! That's something we can all hope for!

[fishin58]

Sb9, Bobby Wade was the best recieving threat that TJ has worked with in his first 3 years. Yes, Bobby Wade and we all know that even Bobby lacked seperation from any defensive players. So who does he have to throw to?

Did Bobby Wade make the Vikes team this year? That gives you an idea of the inferiority that TJ has had at his disposal at WR.

[gr8icefishinmind]

Then Favre does it in his 3rd game and you have to eat crow.

Why are we eating crow??? None of us said that t-jack should be STARTING over favre???

[Swimbait2009]

He had Berrian last year and, tho it's taken him til this year to get his act together, Rice has been here for two years as well. Berrian is a proven receiver, although he has struggled to get started this year. And Rice still has the chance to be that tall over the top type receiver (While it's by no means gospel, in Madden08 Rice was a freak! He'd go up and catch balls like Fitzgerald and Moss! While I know it's a video game, that's the skill set that he really has!) Are Tjack's struggles a result of Rice not living up to potential or the other way around? In two games with Favre, Rice has proven that he can be a reliable target and I, for one, hope he lives up to his enormous potential as well!

[SledNeck]

fishin58, you are really really out to lunch on the TJack subject. Part of me thinks you are just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

[FISHINGURU]

lol fishin58 is definatly out to lunch

you can't really be serious in thinkin we were gonna pull favre with 2 seconds left and bring in junkson for the final play do ya? MUAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! COME ON MAN

bobby wade? bernard and shanks are both better then booby.

[gr8icefishinmind]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.......like we have all said before, none of us t-jack backers think he should be starting in place of favre.........BUT........we do think that this is the learning experience that favre jr. (aka. t-jack) needs!!! He has a chance to learn from one of the best and when the opportunity comes for him to start, whether its due to a favre injury or retirement in a few years, he will flourish!!

[koonie]

YOU dont think Braylen is better then our recievers as whole the lost 3 years?

Really, I am not the one pinig over every meatball 10th year Qb that hits free agency. Pennington, Garcia, Sage, Gus, Quinn, Anderson, Vick, Cassel, Thipgen, Cutler and just about any Qb that gets released or YOU think we should get.

You guys would have a different QB every week if you could.

So Leech as happy as many of you were when Sage came, yes he was competition for TJ for the 1 spot that turned into the back-up. And WE all know who won that battle whether you will admit it or not.

No I don't believe Braylon is any better than our guys. At least not much better. He had one good year. Now he catches like Troy Williamson.

I'm assuming you aren't talking about me pining for us to sign all the retreads. Garcia would have been a decent signing but only as an upgrade over Sage in the qb competition. Other than that they are a bunch of stiffs.

I'm all about drafting and developing. When the draft rolls around I'm usually all over the net trying to figure out who will be our next superstar. My patience has worn thin with tjack. I thought this would be his chance to make good this year and force me to eat crow but we rolled the dice with Favre so unless he gets hurt I don't think we'll ever know if he could have succeeded here.

[fishin58]

So Rice has been healthy a 1/3rd of his time. Shanks and Berrian dropped more balls then anyone wants to admit and Berrian was hurt last year the first 2 games. So that brings us back to the Bobby and Wiggins, Koren, Mcmullen, Twill etc.....how many WR's are even still in the NFL that TJ had the luxury of using his first couple years???

So how has your patience grown thin with TJ????? He had a good preseason and he has improved every year and now he HAS the chance to sit back and watch a first ballot hall of famer for a few games. But your patience has grown thin????

On that other note, so why does TJ have his helmet on??

[Harmonica Bear]

Because it looks better than this.

[Wadinator]

That must be why he is named the number 2 and clearly beat out Sage in every fashion in the preseason.

You assume they named TJack #2 because he beat out Sage.

I assume they named TJack #2 because *style-wise* he's a "change-up" to Favre, but he will only be used in spot duty. However, when we need someone besides Favre to make a start for us, it will be Sage.

Why is your assumption correct, instead of mine?

[PierBridge]

Originally Posted By: Swimbait2009

Do you really feel that TJ is an elite QB?

If he was an elite QB he wouldn't be the number 2 guy, he'd be starting and there would have been no reason to bring in Favre this year. I'm sure every T-Jack hater and supporter can agree on that. The difference is that the T-Jack haters have already come to a conclusion on T-Jack's entire career and the other side is willing to see things play out.

Look at the list of backup QBs around the league. Even starters. Elite QBs aren't exactly easy to come by and few get there over night.

Aaron

Don't bother with common sense and an open minded thought process in here. These T-Jack haters KNOW their Football matter of fact they should be running the Vikings. LOL!

[fishin58]

You guys can believe what you want and keep up the hate, because that is all you have in your argument.

[fishin58]

And just for you haters that cannot buy into the FACT that TJ is the second string QB. Maybe you should check with the NFL and there rulebook before spouting off.

NFL'S "third-quarterback" rule -- sometimes misunderstood:

Seventeen years ago (1991) the third-quarterback rule was instituted to enable teams to have an emergency quarterback available who was not on the 45-man game-day active roster, since many teams, for strategic purposes, only carried two quarterbacks on their game-day roster.

Everybody thinks they understand the NFL's "third-quarterback" rule. But do they?

The rule states that if a third quarterback is inserted before the fourth quarter, a team's first two quarterbacks cannot be used in the game at any position.

Another aspect of the rule is sometimes misunderstood. It is a coach's decision as to whether a third quarterback will be used.

[koonie]

So Rice has been healthy a 1/3rd of his time. Shanks and Berrian dropped more balls then anyone wants to admit and Berrian was hurt last year the first 2 games. So that brings us back to the Bobby and Wiggins, Koren, Mcmullen, Twill etc.....how many WR's are even still in the NFL that TJ had the luxury of using his first couple years???

So how has your patience grown thin with TJ????? He had a good preseason and he has improved every year and now he HAS the chance to sit back and watch a first ballot hall of famer for a few games. But your patience has grown thin????

On that other note, so why does TJ have his helmet on??

His improvement hasn't been that dramatic. His mechanics are still poor and we really don't know if his poise and decision making have improved from last season. Preseason? BFD! How many years do you want to give him to develop? That's the only question I would like to see you answer.

Who cares if he has his helmet on. Maybe he got sick of carrying it or sitting on it. Maybe it was to hide his tears.

[RumRiverRat]

You guys can believe what you want and keep up the hate, because that is all you have in your argument.

TJack should not even be in the league, he is horrible and does not seem to have much going on between the ears.