Trading or releasing T-Jack by Friday?

[nofishfisherman]

deep throws require 2 things that we may not have just yet.

1. Good protection up front. The o line needs to hold up for another second or two to give the receivers time to get down field. So far the o line hasn't shown that ability. Asking Favre to drop back and look deep is just asking for the d line to drive his face into the ground.

2. The QB needs to have good chemistry with the WR's. They are getting better but Favre hasn't had a lot of time to throw to them yet. Give them some time to get on the same page.

Lets get the protection figured out first and then lets call for a deep play if we need to. In the mean time lets just go with what works and thats giving it to AP.

[fishin58]

So this being the best offensive line as whole since????? You cannot even question that. Most of you ran down Cook when you can, we have had a revolving door at RG for x years. Sullivan is an upgrade over the last couple years we got out of Birk. Mt MAC is playing at a higher level. Hutch is the only piece that has played at a higher level while TJ has been here.

But somehow all the BLAME goes back to TJ the past few years.? But wait hes too dumb to read a playbook. Why dont you guys really say what you want to say?

[PierBridge]

Quote:

i've never seen junkson play as well as favre has so far for our team

You'd have to have opened your eyes for that to have happened my friend...

Logic and FISHGURU, like Elvis have left the building!..LOL

Talk about flip flopping mumbo jumbo!

[Jim Panfish Uran]

Hey why don't you two get a room, I can't believe how much you two love Tjack.

[FISHINGURU]

you guys are really to funny...i've seen more plays in the past 2 games then i've seen junkson and company do in 3 years...if you don't see that your the ones that need to open your eyes.

junkson never has and never will play as calm and confident as favre...he doesn't scan the field and trick defenders with his eyes..doesn't read defenses..the list goes on and on don't try to fool yourselves.

i feel bad for you guys that think favre can't throw the ball down field...my logic is right on the money...favre is coming off surgery and missed most of camp..its a long season so we want to ease him back into playing shape and not waste his arm for the long haul.

some of you ladies want him to throw bombs all day lol....then get mad and call him a gun slinger that throws to many ints.

junkson sure looks good out there on fake punts and downing the ball at the end of the game doesn't he?

[Jarrod32]

junkson never has and never will play as calm and confident as favre...he doesn't scan the field and trick defenders with his eyes..doesn't read defenses..the list goes on and on don't try to fool yourselves.

How did Favre look in his first 19 starts?

[Born2Fish]

In the second game of the 1992 season, the Packers played the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Buccaneers were leading 17–0 at halftime when head coach Mike Holmgren benched starting quarterback Don Majkowski and Favre played the second half. On his first regular season play as a Packer, Favre threw a pass that was deflected and caught by himself. Favre was tackled and the completion went for -7 yards. The Packers lost the game 31–3, chalking up only 106 yards passing.

In the third game of the 1992 season, Majkowski injured a ligament in his ankle against the Cincinnati Bengals, an injury severe enough that he would be out for four weeks. Favre replaced Majkowski for the remainder of the contest. Favre fumbled four times during the course of the game, a performance poor enough that the crowd chanted for Favre to be removed in favor of another Packers backup quarterback at the time, Ty Detmer. However, down 23–17 with 1:07 left in the game, the Packers started an offensive series on their own 8 yard line. Still at the quarterback position, Favre completed a 42 yard pass to Sterling Sharpe. Three plays later, Favre threw the game–winning touchdown pass to Kitrick Taylor with 13 seconds remaining.

The next week's game against the Pittsburgh Steelers began the longest consecutive starts streak for a quarterback in NFL history. The game ended in a 17–3 victory and his passer rating was 144.6. During the season, Favre helped put together a six-game winning streak for the Packers, the longest winning streak for the club since 1965. They ended 9–7 that season, missing the playoffs on their last game.Favre finished his first season as a Packer with 3,227 yards and a quarterback rating of 85.3, helping him to his first Pro Bowl.[24]

So after only 12 starts he earned a trip to the pro bowl. Not too shabby.

[nofishfisherman]

Originally Posted By: FISHINGURU

junkson never has and never will play as calm and confident as favre...he doesn't scan the field and trick defenders with his eyes..doesn't read defenses..the list goes on and on don't try to fool yourselves.

How did Favre look in his first 19 starts?

From the looks of it Favre did a better then T-Jack.

Here are the stats from each of their first seasons starting significant time at QB

Jackson 12 games started

Yards - 1911 Completion % - 58.2 TD's - 9 INT's 12 Rating - 71

Favre 13 games started

Yards - 3227 Completion % - 64.1 TD's - 18 INT's 13 Rating - 85

[Iron Cowboy]

well thats that. cant deny the numbers. but I'm sure the young guys will tell you T.Jack is better cause he's younger and faster. he is really muscular and has a really cool gold chain he wears when he plays so he must be better than a hobbled old man

[fishin58]

Good for Brett on his early years.....just too bad that was almost 20 years ago and Brett is a shell of that man.

Like I have said, I am halfway happy Bert is here. TJ will be better longterm for him being here and playing half of the year.

Stats are stats and you haters still cant stomuch the fact that it doesnt take 300 yards passing every week to win. You need a smart QB that doesnt turn the ball over.

So how could it be that we are 2-0 and Bert is second to last in QB yards? But if TJ put up the EXACT stats you would be calling for his head, chili's head and ground sage to be brought in.

And that is the truth and you know it.

[HOT SPOT]

Its kinda funny how Ap and some other players were texting Farve to come to the vikes. That says alot for T-Jack, Even his own players dont have faith in him

[nofishfisherman]

Good for Brett on his early years.....just too bad that was almost 20 years ago and Brett is a shell of that man.

Like I have said, I am halfway happy Bert is here. TJ will be better longterm for him being here and playing half of the year.

Stats are stats and you haters still cant stomuch the fact that it doesnt take 300 yards passing every week to win. You need a smart QB that doesnt turn the ball over.

So how could it be that we are 2-0 and Bert is second to last in QB yards? But if TJ put up the EXACT stats you would be calling for his head, chili's head and ground sage to be brought in.

And that is the truth and you know it.

The truth is that if T-Jack was completing over 70% of his passes then I would be 100% fine with him at QB. But he's more of a 50% passer. In this offense the QB doesn't need to put up 300 yards that is true but he does need to be accurate and deliver some timely passes. Which is something T-Jack has never shown the ability to do. When it was 3rd and 10 the last two years I always cringed at the thought of having to rely on T-Jack to make the completion to keep the drive going and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

I'm not one of the guys that thinks T-Jack is complete garbage. I think he's got alot of talent, but after almost 20 starts he doesn't seem to be much better then when he started his first game. He's had fewer INT's which is a positive sign but he still doesn't seem to be making the right decisions on the field.

I wasn't a fan of Favre and his circus coming to town but I do think he gives us a better chance at winning right now. T-Jack might have more physical ability now then Favre does but like has been said, in this offense you don't need it to win. You need accuracy and good decision making at the line of scrimmage something that Favre is better able to do right now.

The truth is that Favre and T-Jack are different players and each have their different strengths. Favre's strengths seem to fit what this team needs right now. Partly that might be because Chilli knows how to use Favre's talents better then what T-Jack brings. Thats not Jackson's fault that falls on the coach. Get him in a different system and who knows what could happen, maybe he blows up into a top 5 QB or of course he could simply implode and be out of the league in a year or two.

[pegleg]

The big difference that I see between last year with Tjack and this year with Farve is the confidence the coaches have in the quarterback position this year. They sent Tjack in with the play and they seldom allowed him to audible at the line of scrimmage. You see Brett changing the play a number of times so far this year. That will pay big dividends farther down the schedule as the teams get tougher.

[fishin58]

good post nofish, the only thing I have to say is that his career completion % is closer to 60 and he has improved every year. He has gotten better every year and his recieving corp is at least 95% better then 06. Put in an average WR in the place of TWILL and his drops and you are looking at completely different overall stats for TJ.

[Born2Fish]

I will agree with that Fishin. Get rid of Williamson and say add a Berrian or even Rice at that stage, and his numbers are different. How much so? We will never know.

[FISHINGURU]

Stats are stats and you haters still cant stomuch the fact that it doesnt take 300 yards passing every week to win. You need a smart QB that doesnt turn the ball over.

So how could it be that we are 2-0 and Bert is second to last in QB yards? But if TJ put up the EXACT stats you would be calling for his head, chili's head and ground sage to be brought in.

And that is the truth and you know it.

i think most people know that you don't need to throw 300 yards a game to win....and we all understand you need a smart qb thats why most people don't like tjunk.

i really don't think if tjunk would of came out in one of his 3 seasons and started us off 2-0 and needed the backup qb to come out and kneel out games for him we'd of called for his head....people call for his end when we lose and need to come back and he can't convert and folds under pressure.

if junkson would of won the starting role i doubt anyone would want chilly's head and have sage start if you were 2-0 and won so easily....junkson has to win fans...he hasn't done much to do that.

[fishin58]

So by saying this and you were a Sage promoter? Now that TJ has beat Sage for the 2 spot you still run him down?

And yes you clowns would have still been calling for TJ's head if we were 2-0.

Playing Green Bay at GB and the Colts, versus the Browns and the Lions......hmmm not sure which 2 games I would start a season off with?????

[FISHINGURU]

both them games were easy wins..both them teams tried handing us the game...junkson looked like a deer in the headlights during crunch time like normal...even though the game should of been in the bag.

[Rick]

The truth is that if T-Jack was completing over 70% of his passes then I would be 100% fine with him at QB. But he's more of a 50% passer. {/quote]

If he was a 70% passer the Colts would dump Peyton Manning for him. He had a 58% completion rate before last year and last year he improved to 59%.

He did look much better at the end of the regular season last year. Fewer interceptions and a better completion percentage is improvement' date=' especially for a project QB. Drew Brees looks pretty good right now. The Chargers were not patient with a QB (like you T-Jack haters) who was supposed to be NFL ready out of Purdue. Look what New Orleans got out of that deal.

[koonie]

So you think Tjack could become Drew Brees in time? ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

[Iron Cowboy]

Man this thread could go on forever, it should be labeled the eternal optomist's against the rest. Now were comparing supporting staff? Bottom line is if a Q.B in the NFL is ever going to be great he has shown it by his third year regardless of starts. In other words if he's good enough in practice he gets starts...the coaches that watch these guys and interact every day in practice obviously have an idea of what it takes in the nfl. Unless maybe the rubes on here know more than the guys that get millions a year to determine this, (which some apparently seem to think)

you T.Jack lovers name me some nfl greats that didnt do so good or quite get it for the first THREE years in the league and then broke out in the fourth or fifth year? He might make a serviceable back-up for his career but will NEVER be great (Duh Favre is hall of fame) and if he wont be GREAT why does anyone care? He has already shown he will NEVER lead a team on his own shoulders so who's cares if he is with the team or not? Fishin58 since you seem to be the guy with the "man crush" If you want to save this thread and bet me....if in two years he is something special and has numbers equal to or better than Favre in that year I will pay you whatever you want to make public that you bet me (money where mouth is) no matter the amount...cash talks bull$hit walks...doubt I will get any action.

[Rick]

Rich Gannon and Drew Brees both come to mind off the top of my mind as QBs who had great seasons after their third season. Both with differant teams than their original impatient teams.

It remains to be seen what T-Jack will amount to.

As for the great NFL minds Kurt Warner was an afterthought who had some great seasons as well.

I'm sure there are more.

[FISHINGURU]

some players develop more or have more opportunity in a new system.

junkson and our playing style don't match...maybe he needs a new start with another team...i'm game for that!!

can't wait to see who our new qb will be after favre.

[LMITOUT]

Jackson would fit well with Detroit.

Terrible QB on a terrible team.

[FISHINGURU]

junkson the jag

[AWH]

Man this thread could go on forever, it should be labeled the eternal optomist's against the rest.

Or it could be labeled as guys that are willing to look at a situation objectively against the rest.

The Drew Brees comparison is actually an excellent one per how this debate on here has been. That's not saying that Jackson will ever be what Brees has become or even close. If Brees continues to play like he has the last couple years for another 6 years, he will pretty much be a lock for the Hall of Fame, especially if he's able to win the big game. What's a good comparison is how their careers started out.

Through Brees' first 3 seasons, he was average at best. His 4th and 5th year he was very good. But the Chargers, for whatever reason, believed that he didn't have "it". How many times have we seen that comment about Jackson on this thread? The Chargers had plenty of time to to evaluate his talent, having him for 5 years. But they decided to go in another direction. Granted, Rivers was a very good option to go to, an alternate option that the Vikings haven't had. But the point is, SD didn't believe that Brees had what it took, so they decided to give up on him and go with an unproven player.

Why are the beginning stages of their careers such a bad comparison? Do you think anyone today would say that Brees doesn't have "it" like they were after his 3rd or 4th seasons? He did play 5 years in SD. And I think at that point, SD realized that they made a mistake on judging Drew Brees too early...that they didn't need to use the pick that they used on Rivers for a QB.

Aaron

[koonie]

Did you ever watch Brees play in his first three years? Obviously not.

[AWH]

I watched Brees play and he was very average in his first 3 seasons. He turned the corner in a huge way in his 4th season with SD. Night and day difference from his 3rd to 4th year.

Aaron

[Shack]

Well I guess Vikes org., Childness and the majority of Viking fans think Junkson is better than Sage!

This thread is not dead I guess until the Oct. trade deadline, but who was the backup Q today? Again?

Come on guys!

Tarvarious "Rex" "future Hall O Fame" Jackson

Either Childness knows what he is doing and sees/feels the potential, or he is one heck of a good used car salesman

Hey! There is some good to Sage. He sure looks good on the sidelines holding a clipboard and wearing headphones. He may have a future as an OF coordinator Maybe.

[LMITOUT]

I will say this, if T-Jack is in the game SF doesn't return that blocked FG for a TD before halftime, because T-jack would have never got them down the field to even have an attempt at the FG.

So I suppose having T-Jack around isn't a bad thing.