Trading or releasing T-Jack by Friday?

[walleyes12]

Not a doubt in my mind, for this year and many after that. .

Oh My! Honestly, you really think TJ is better than Favre right now? Oh boy, you jumped off the deep end

[Rick]

I can't argue with you guys about this one. With the exception of a few bootlegs that were caused by some pressure from the defensive line(Favre was sacked a few times so it is acceptable), TJ did what he had to do with some junk time. I am not sure if this means he is progressing by any means(he still has to be a starter for a FULL year first), but at least it is a start in the right direction. And no, I am not eating crow about what I have previously said of TJ. I am only being a realist now that the season has started and opening my eyes and being fairly objective to the guy. I still think he has a ways to go.

Good Post Born2Fish. It's refreshing to see someone honestly evaluate a situation that involves T-Jack.

[fishin58]

Just stating my opinion, I honestly believe Favres arm and body will not hold up. That is what I think.

[Rick]

With this team built to win right now, I prefer Favre starting over T-jack. T-Jack is still developing.

As Gil Brandt said and I believe as well, at this stage in Favre's career I really don't see a huge drop-off from Favre to T-jack and even less of a drop-off from T-Jack to Sage. We have a very good team with very good back-ups at the QB position.

All TRUE Vikes fans should be feeling good about our quality depth at QB and what has gone down so far at that position.

[PierBridge]

Well to be completely honest Pier, Favre was hurt(he had an interview where he said he thought he could not play last year after he got hurt). But this is a new year, under a new team. I have a TON of confidence that Brett can. get it done. He is proven, and is really a lot better than our other 2 options. I do also agree that TJ has not shown too much when it really counts. I have to refer to the playoff game. He showed signs of giving up, and really we do not need that. I just hope that he gets beyond that loss and can rally when we actually need him. If Brett does retire(and un-retire 50 times!), and there is a QB competition between him and Sage, I just want him to show that he can be the QB we need when the going gets tough. I can also see the Vikings moving up in the draft next year to select one of the top tier QB's(Tebow,Bradford or McCoy). But we all know Floridas track record at producing NFL quality QB's and Texas hasn't done that much better.

Another rock solid evaluation!

You win!...

[CodyDawg]

fishin58, since you brought up the brain cell topic, you obviously dont have 2 brain cells that know anything about football. I mean really, have you ever even tossed a football in the backyard? Do you know the complexities involved in modern-day NFL defenses? Do you not understand that they dont all play vanilla defenses every down all season long for every QB they face? If you stop throwing insults, I will too!

The Vikes have an offense predicated on the run. AP is the breadwinner and they ride that horse all they can (rightly so!). However, sooner or later, he will be stopped. There is plenty of evidence of this. When that happens, in simple terms, you have to have a passing game that can make the defenses stop focussing on the run and play a more balanced approach. TJack cannot do this. he can win the games when AP runs wild (as Brett did this weekend). He cannot win the games with the defense takes away the running game. He hasnt done it once yet. In all fairness, Brett hasnt either in his one game, but his track record suggests he certainly can.

[nofishfisherman]

Chilli brought up a good point during some of his post game comments regarding Favre. He mentioned that what Favre did well was that he made some good audibles on the line that got them out of bad situations and got them into plays with a better chance of success. The fans aren't going to be able to see that, and know that the QB made the change at the line.

I wonder if T-Jack would have been able to make the correct audibles? From what I've seen of him I'd think probably not.

If all you look at is current physical ability T-Jack would have it in terms of speed, mobility, and probably arm strength. But none of that matters if you don't know how to use the tools. Instead I'll take the guy who can put the ball where it needs to be and who can make the correct reads and calls at the line of scrimmage, even if that means having Favre as our QB.

Having a guy making the right calls at the line means you can probably rely on AP even more by changing the call on the line to give him the ball where the defense is most vulnerable. A good QB will be able to see that.

[FISHINGURU]

FAVRE IS THE MAN!

HERE WE GO PERCY HERE WE GO!!!!

[fishin58]

But that is exactly the point CD, every time TJ would put up those exact numbers and if not better he was blasted. Oh my he is stupid, he needs to throw for 300 yards everygame other wise he is terrible.

And CD any time you want to line up let me know.

[Iron Cowboy]

I wonder if T-Jack would have been able to make the correct audibles? From what I've seen of him I'd think probably not.

If all you look at is current physical ability T-Jack would have it in terms of speed, mobility, and probably arm strength. But none of that matters if you don't know how to use the tools.

Good post nofisherman. The nfl has seen lots of athletic guys come and go with little success. Then Look at guys like Montana or Dan Fouts (or Elway toward the end) some of the best Q.B's ever and every one looked like your little brother could beat them in a one on one hoops match Q.b is much more of a mental thing than any other position and T.Jack...have you ever heard him talk in a conversation? Lets just say he wont be on jeopardy any time soon

[Jim Panfish Uran]

I'd have to agree with cody on this one, as soon as the run was stopped Tjack couldn't do squat. That's all I'm saying until someone stops the run and we can see what Favre will do. That may not happen though until San Fran, or Green Bay.

[fishin58]

Your not worried about the kiddies run D

On a whole another topic comparing this team to anything TJ has had to work with is APPLES and Dog [PoorWordUsage], (oranges are not even close) and hopefully we all know that. The days of TWILL, Bobby Wade Billy Mcmullen and Koren Robinson are over thank goodness.

Now, if I could find a stat for dropped pass per pass play.

TJ has good stats for the O we run and when the ball bounces off a wide open reciever 7-8 times. You cannot tell me that his stats and game play would be a lot different if his past recievers caught the ball. The O was setup beautifully for those PA passes. TJ delivered but his recievers did not. You only get so many third and eight's in a game and how many in TJ's career have been FLAT out dropped passes.

[fishin58]

Originally Posted By: nofishfisherman

I wonder if T-Jack would have been able to make the correct audibles? From what I've seen of him I'd think probably not.

If all you look at is current physical ability T-Jack would have it in terms of speed, mobility, and probably arm strength. But none of that matters if you don't know how to use the tools.

Good post nofisherman. The nfl has seen lots of athletic guys come and go with little success. Then Look at guys like Montana or Dan Fouts (or Elway toward the end) some of the best Q.B's ever and every one looked like your little brother could beat them in a one on one hoops match Q.b is much more of a mental thing than any other position and T.Jack...have you ever heard him talk in a conversation? Lets just say he wont be on jeopardy any time soon

WOW

[Rick]

you have to have a passing game that can make the defenses stop focussing on the run and play a more balanced approach. TJack cannot do this.

Sorry, but you lost credibility when you made this statement "TJack cannot do this". You do not not this for a fact and I've seen evidence that suggests he can as he develops.

I also agree that Favre is the man and it's his football smarts at the line that make a huge differance. In my opinion TJack does need experiance in that area.

[CodyDawg]

fishin58, I blast Tjack cuz he doesnt do any better than those numbers. If he had half a dozen games of big time passing stats, I would say there might be hope. but he doesnt, so there isnt.

as for lining up against you, that pretty much tells me all I need to know. you are/were a lineman. Yep, that makes perfect sense. I wasnt a lineman.

[Iron Cowboy]

I would like nothing more than to see T.jack do well. god knows Favre is only a band-aid to our Q.b (or lack there of) troubles but I dont know if more experience will help him. He's allready been around long enough to figuire it out if he's ever going to.

I know they say some guys take a while to develope but with last years Matt Ryan and Joe Flaco bursting on the scene showing little trouble and Sanchez looking good in his first game I think times are changing

and I for one and I think a lot others dont have the patience anymore to watch a Q.b dance around the backfield because he doesnt know where to deliver the ball and then finally take off running year after year.

[fishin58]

Actually, I was 6'3 230lb all state running back in high school and I was the captain and a 4 year starting defensive end in college. So now at 260, yes anytime you want to line-up or test football knowledge I am game.

My claim to fame, Joe Mauer and Larry Fitzgerald are on the same all state team.

[TR21]

Addressing Iron Cowboys thread, You are right on with your observations. The QB's you mentioned had the opportunity to runa pro offense in college and D1 at that. The coaches that are selecting an "athlete" and not necessarily a quarterback to run their offense in college are doing a deservice to that kid in his ability to transition to the pros. The topic of are you preparing these kids for the pros or just college always comes up.

In the pros everybody is an athlete and your athletisism is only going to carry you so far. The person that is first, a football player and second ,an athlete is going to understand the game better, will be in a better position to make the plays and will be more succesful in the end. TJack wasn't given that opportunity in college and has been in a learning mode ever since. Yes, he's a good athlete but is he a good football player?

[TR21]

With regards to Fishin58's reply, I'm running behind that big fullback. A couple of power slants, get him out of the way big guy and I'll buy you dinner.

[fishin58]

Halfback, I used to have wheels

[Iron Cowboy]

Tr21 yep, and the decision to draft him is all on chili, he fancy's himself a Q.B guru and thought he could take a superior athlete and mold him like a little piece of clay into an NFL Q.B

Seen it before when teams would draft world class sprinters and try to make them recievers. never really does work out. Its just too bad a coaches ego makes the fans suffer for years because if he dumps him it proves he was wrong or couldnt do the job.... If I was Ziggy this would be on my "points of concern" performance review with the "guru" come contract renewal time.

[fishin58]

TJ has improved every year, most raw QB's that are drafted as project QB are not supposed to see the field until year 3 or 4. But TJ being put in you could say has hurt him or helped him for the long run. I think it has helped him because he has improved every year and now that we have a a good recieving core. He has been put on hold. Until Bert retires or gets hurt TJ will be waiting in the wing to take full advantage of his prior playing experience and this fully loaded offensive weapon.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

I wonder if T-Jack would have been able to make the correct audibles? From what I've seen of him I'd think probably not.

Just so we're clear here Fish58 is the ONLY one on this board that is making the case for T-Jack over Favre.

I would hope and its very clear Favre is better at audibling after 17 years in the league and being one of the best to play the game.

My opinion is T-Jack is better and has way more up-side than Sage/Gus and he isn't as bad as most of you all think. And his success at the end of last season and all through-out this pre-season has made a lot of you angry and frustrated to be honest. Almost to the point of rediculessness!

[fishin58]

Amen, they just cant take the fact that TJ was taking many steps in the right direction. So they were actually hoping TJ would not get a chance to play to prove them even more wrong. Does that sound about right?

Here is how I feel, most of you have swallowed your pride and have taken in Bert. I just hope you are all ready for the fairy tale Vikes year. Bert will be dethroned late in the year either by injury or porous play and TJ will pick up the ball and never look back. TJ WILL learn alot from being behind Bert this year good and bad, hopefully he takes his game to the next level.

[Rick]

Just so we're clear here Fish58 is the ONLY one on this board that is making the case for T-Jack over Favre.

I would hope and its very clear Favre is better at audibling after 17 years in the league and being one of the best to play the game.

My opinion is T-Jack is better and has way more up-side than Sage/Gus and he isn't as bad as most of you all think. And his success at the end of last season and all through-out this pre-season has made a lot of you angry and frustrated to be honest. Almost to the point of rediculessness!

That's because they are kicking and screaming to keep from eating crow

[alwaysonthemove]

ha ha ha ha LMAO

you guys

[FISHINGURU]

that a boy favre...way to make audibles and look off defenders! about time we have a qb that can do them things! should be a fun season!!

GO PERCY!

[Jim Panfish Uran]

My claim to fame, Joe Mauer and Larry Fitzgerald are on the same all state team.

Pretty cool man!!

[Shack]

This thread is like Rosie O'Donnell!

IKt will not just go away!

[Jiggin4eyes62]

Originally Posted By: PierBridge

Just so we're clear here Fish58 is the ONLY one on this board that is making the case for T-Jack over Favre.

I would hope and its very clear Favre is better at audibling after 17 years in the league and being one of the best to play the game.

My opinion is T-Jack is better and has way more up-side than Sage/Gus and he isn't as bad as most of you all think. And his success at the end of last season and all through-out this pre-season has made a lot of you angry and frustrated to be honest. Almost to the point of rediculessness!

That's because they are kicking and screaming to keep from eating crow

You two have a very unhealhy love affair with T-Jack. He's useless or they woldn't have called up Favre. He won't amount to anything but a backup in the NFl.