license question

[tednugefan]

i got a surplus license and was wondering if i can get an over the counter archery license for the last two weeks. just incase i dont fill my tag with the surplus one. i know either way i can only take one bird.

[Scott M]

If ya already bought the surplus tag, you can't get the archery OTC tag. One tag per person per season.

[tednugefan]

thats what i thought

[FL SNIPER]

I got another question. I put in the drawing for the first season and the last season was my second choice. I was chosen for the last season. Am I limited to buying a license for just that season or can I buy an archery only license and hunt the last two seasons? It is my understanding I am stuck buying the tag for the last season only. I will look it up in the rules or ask at the license place but figured maybe someone here knew off hand. Thanks.

[DonBo]

If you were drawn for a tag, that is your only option.

[Hoyt4]

Just what DonBo said you can only hunt the season your pulled a tag for.Since they came out with the archery tag I do not put down a second choice cause you only get that season archery tag you get the last two weeks with a couple weekends and can go anywhere there are 50 tags.Just gives you more options then getting drawn for the last season.

[FL SNIPER]

Good to know. Last spring was my first time hunting turkeys and I got one with the gun right away the first morning. I want to try with my bow this year.

So are all archery tags over the counter regardless of whether you put in for that area or not? Statewide license?

For next spring I'll probably do like you do Hoyt4 and just put in my first choice and not a second choice...then my understanding is you can purchase a archery tag for last two seasons if not chosen in the lottery.

Thanks you guys.

[Powerstroke]

So are all archery tags over the counter regardless of whether you put in for that area or not? Statewide license?

The OTC archery tag is good statewide in permit areas that issue more than 50 permits per "season". A season is defined as the A-H dates. I print a copy of the DNR's map and then use a highlighter to mark the zones that are open to archery tags. I would've made one for here, but I don't know how to edit the PDF file.

MN DNR turkey map

[johnsd16]

If you were drawn for a tag, that is your only option.

This is not true. Last season I just wanted a point so I put in for 262-A, with no points going in, and I got drawn. I puropsely put in for 262 since there are only 5 permits/season and chose A so I wouldn't get picked. I don't know anyone up there and didn't want to hunt in 262 at all.

Anyhow, I was able to purchase a surplus tag for 225-E despite having been drawn in the drawing.

For reference I have worked at a MN and WI license agent for 9 years so I guess I would categorize myself as somewhat knowledgeable regarding license matters, there seems to be a lot of "well I heard this" or "the guy here told me this" out there and lots of license agents that really aren't that well versed on the available privledges and procedures.

[123fish]

So if you wanted to you could have hunted two seasons? We both know that isn't right. Would it have shown that when you went to buy your 262A license that you already had a surplus tag? Whatever happened you should not be drawn twice one way or the other.

[Hoyt4]

Then when I've called in and asked this question to the DNR about applying they lied?I do not think what you saying is correct and since you worked for them found a hole in the system some how.Seems you took a tag from someone that wanted to hunt that first season.If you don't want hunt those dates then don't apply it's a lottery and always a chance of being drawn so why take away from another hunter.

[Dave S]

You can only purchase 1 license. You cannot purchase a surplus license and then an over the counter license for archery for the final 2 seasons.

If a person so chooses to NOT purchase their license awarded in the lottery, they may purhcase the archery tag OTC for the final 2 seasons, and as Powerstroke stated, it's only valid in areas that have 50+ permits available.

[FL SNIPER]

So now after reading the above posts, sounds like I could forego buying a license for the season I was chosen (H which was my second choice when applying) and purchase an archery license instead, which would be good for seasons G & H in area 236 which has over 50 permits? Thanks.

[Dave S]

here a quote of mine in another forum regarding the matter:

Here's the text in the winner's notification booklet that was mailed out:

Licenses for the spring wild turkey hunt are awarded in a computerized preference drawing. Licensed turkey hunters are restricted to the WILD TURKEY PERMIT AREA and the TIME PERIOD for which their license is issued. Landowner permission is required for private agricultural land or posted land. If you have forgotten which wild turkey permit area and/or time period you applied for, it is printed on your mailing label.

IMO, there's 2 problems here. It states "licensed turkey hunters". If they haven't purchased their license, they're technically not a licensed turkey hunter.

The other problem is, how is the MN DNR defining "issued". Do they mean it in the sense of the license has been awarded to an individual during the lottery? It seems kind of vague, but I'd have to say the way it's written, issued refers to the act of purchasing.

Now here's my take on how this should work. "Joe Hunter" applies in the lottery and is awarded a permit via this lottery. His first commitment should be to use this license. Not to rescind on his good fortune and decide to purchase an over the counter archery tag when someone else woulda/coulda/shoulda been awarded this tag in the first place. I don't believe the ELS is set up to kick someone back out if they attempt to purchase another tag if they've been awarded a permit in the lottery. IMHO, it should be.

[DonBo]

I totally agree with Hoyt & Lep here. You may have found a loop hole, but that doesn't make it right. If you didn't want to hunt a certain season you should never have applied for it. Someone else that really wanted to hunt didn't get a chance too..Maybe someone from FM.

[Dave S]

You can only purchase 1 license. You cannot purchase a surplus license and then an over the counter license for archery for the final 2 seasons.

If a person so chooses to NOT purchase their license awarded in the lottery, they may purhcase the archery tag OTC for the final 2 seasons, and as Powerstroke stated, it's only valid in areas that have 50+ permits available.

I need to make a correction. I may have mis-spoke in my first sentence here. Per the reg's, it states you can only tag 1 wild turkey during the spring hunt. It does not say that you cannot purchase an archery tag OTC if you did not tag a wild turkey in an earlier hunt.

Sorry for the confusion guys.

[DonBo]

Originally Posted By: LEP7MM

You can only purchase 1 license. You cannot purchase a surplus license and then an over the counter license for archery for the final 2 seasons.

If a person so chooses to NOT purchase their license awarded in the lottery, they may purhcase the archery tag OTC for the final 2 seasons, and as Powerstroke stated, it's only valid in areas that have 50+ permits available.

I need to make a correction. I may have mis-spoke in my first sentence here. Per the reg's, it states you can only tag 1 wild turkey during the spring hunt. It does not say that you cannot purchase an archery tag OTC if you did not tag a wild turkey in an earlier hunt.

Sorry for the confusion guys.

Even though it doesn't say that, I'm sure the ELS will not let you buy a second tag if you've already purchased one. I went round and round with the DNR on this last fall looking to buy a surplus tag. I'm certain the same rules apply to the spring season.

[Dilly]

Applying for a tag just to get your name in and build points is not a nice thing to do man...look what happened, you got drawn and have no intention of hunting that area, dude you hosed someone who would of been happy to have had it.

[johnsd16]

I never said I bought 2 tags. I was drawn for 262A, did not purchase that license. Instead, I bought a surplus license for 225E, not an archery tag.

In all honesty I did not think that was possible either, but I was at work so I thought I'd try it and it worked. There are no "loopholes". The system is computerized and I had no way around it that isn't available to anyone else.

For those saying don't apply for a season if you don't want it. Get off my back, come on. If I just want a point and cannot hunt early seasons due to my schedule.

How do you propose I try to get a point without getting drawn??????????

I applied, having no existing points, for a zone with 5 permits available, for season A. I tried to pick a time the time and area that would give me the least chance of getting drawn. And no, I didn't want to apply for the 225A tag I was trying to build up points for because I couldn't hunt during A that year. Also, you may ask why I didn't put in for 225E since I could hunt then? Because I would 100% for sure get drawn (there are always surplus for that time) and then yes, I would have my tag, but I would not have gained a point. I realize in the end that's what I got, no point and a 225E tag, but that was not my goal in the beginning.

I see no reason to put in for a 225E tag, ever, if I want it I can buy it, but if I keep putting in for it I will never build any points to get an A or B tag. I am more than willing to bowhunt every other or 2 out of 3 years and then draw an early tag on the other years.

For those that say I took a tag away from someone, I'm sorry, but for real? BoooHooo. If you want that to not happen, then tell the DNR to make it possible to apply/buy a POINT ONLY just like WI can for bear etc. Until then, I will continue to do what I can to get a point and no tag. What else can you do? Some years I cannot hunt season A, so I don't want it no matter where it is, but I want a point so I can for sure get it the year I want it. I know it sucks, but the DNR needs to let you build points, not my fault. Besides, at this point most everyone can hunt almost any year in this state.

For those that doubt I did what I said, buying a surplus tag after getting drawn. I've sold 1000s of licenses for MN and WI and am very, very familiar with the ELS, and ALIS systems and know what went down. Things may have been different to that prior to 2008 and may have changed since, but in 2008 I was drawn, and was allowed to buy a surplus tag for a different time and period. Just one tag purchased.

Sorry for ruffling feathers, just trying to accurately dispell a possible misconception.

[Dave S]

johnsd16,

I hate to tell you this bud, but you were drawn for your choice in the lottery. No points earned this year. Not to mention, what good are preference points if the area you intend to hunt "always" has surplus tags. You could have all the preference points possible and it won't matter. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

[Rippinlip]

Correct Lep if I have studied correctly,

He gets "nothing" for preference points if his name got picked.

Only achieve points if you got denied.

Looks like that theory went in the cra&%$.

[Dave S]

johnsd16,

after I re-read your post, it appears you're well aware you didn't receive any points this year.

I just had to read through the attitude in your last post to see what you were really saying. A person really can't be critical of what you did considering there's no violation. IMO, poor ehtics, but legally you did what your entitled to.

On another note, it does appear that you're an archery hunter as well. You could just as easily applied for the early season in your area, gained points if you weren't drawn, and just purchase the archery tag for the final 14 days of the spring season.

Whichever you choose to do, just enjoy the hunt.

[johnsd16]

Lep,

There are always surplus tags in my area for seasons E, and sometimes G and H (the last 2 don't matter since I would rather buy an archery tag than a surplus for G or H), but never surplus for season A, B or C. Thus I need to build points to get those A or B season tags.

With my schedule there are some years I can't hunt the early seasons, or at all. So, on those years I want to get a point so when I am able to hunt early I will have a much better chance of getting an early tag.

Like I said before, last year I didn't put in for an early season tag in my area because I couldn't hunt early, at all due to my schedule. So I was trying to NOT get an A season tag, no matter where it was. So look at this scenario and see if you can blame me.

I had no preference points going in. I put in for season A in a zone with only 5 permits per season. There was no way I thought I'd get drawn. But I did, and I get that my plan didn't work.

For those who still think I took a hunt away from someone else. Since I got drawn with no points there must not have been many applicants in that area (I figured). So when the surplus numbers came out I looked at what was available for 262 (the zone I was drawn in for A season), and low and behold there was 1 tag left for SEASON B!!!!!! That means only 4 people applied for season B in 262 (yes I know season B is the Mon-Fri season and is the least desireable season of A, B or C). So if I bumped someone out of season A, they could try to get that B tag (and last year considering the weather they should have thanked me). Also, besides the season B tag for 262, there were several others available, I can't remember exactly but it was more than 4 or 5 tags and I think season H had all 5 tags available. So if there were guys that wanted to hunt in 262, they could if they wanted to. Clearly way way less than 100 people applied for the whole range of seasons up there, so I really doubt I stole the opportunity to hunt from someone.

The bottom line is the DNR needs to make it available to hunters to just buy a point, and that's what I'd do 2 out of every 3 years and hunt with my bow, then on the 3rd year draw an A or B season tag somewhere (in theory).

I understand how the point/draw/surplus/OTC archery system works inside and out. Yes my plan didn't work, but a guy on here asked a question and got bad information from a whole bunch of guys who aren't bad guys, they just didn't understand what the options are. I'm not trying to have any "attitude", but I also don't like people jumping on me for trying to work out my own hunt. I can kind of see applying for a tag that you don't want isn't optimal, but classifying it as "unethical" goes too far in my opinion. You really have to believe in good faith I had no way of thinking I even had a prayer at that tag, and I only got it because no one applied for 262 last year.

[Dave S]

John,

after looking at the "green" book, it's no wonder all the tags didn't sell in that area. I'm not 100% certain when they started offering a season in 262, but I do know there are some large tracts of land with 1 owner in the area. Gaining permission to hunt could be an issue, even with 10 tags per season available, thus maybe the lack of competition in the lottery in that area.

[johnsd16]

First season for 262 was in 2008 I believe, but it may have been 2007. So I was applying in the first year it was open, usually zones are super hot the first year they open with lots of hunters from the area chomping at the bit to hunt the birds they've been seeing for the first time. Clearly this was not the case up there.

However, after getting drawn I did my homework, called a couple of biologists from the area, talked to the CO, got a platt book etc. I am a medical student, so time is limited, and I knew going in that hunting season A wasn't an option, but since I got the tag I thought I'd try.

In then end it didn't work out for me to go up there. Thus I bought the 225 E tag I ended up filling. If what I did makes me a bad guy or unethical in some people's eyes, I feel that's unfortunate, because I'm really not so bad.

[ac777]

First season for 262 was in 2008 I believe, but it may have been 2007. So I was applying in the first year it was open, usually zones are super hot the first year they open with lots of hunters from the area chomping at the bit to hunt the birds they've been seeing for the first time. Clearly this was not the case up there.

However, after getting drawn I did my homework, called a couple of biologists from the area, talked to the CO, got a platt book etc. I am a medical student, so time is limited, and I knew going in that hunting season A wasn't an option, but since I got the tag I thought I'd try.

In then end it didn't work out for me to go up there. Thus I bought the 225 E tag I ended up filling. If what I did makes me a bad guy or unethical in some people's eyes, I feel that's unfortunate, because I'm really not so bad.

John, I really wouldn't worry about what people are saying on here. What you did was legal, even if some aren't for it doesn't mean you should change for them. People sometimes get a little nit picky about things in that topic, but really, who cares, it's just people posting their opinions anyways as that is what forums are for. I say, if it's legal, go for it man and have a great season.

[rbs]

I agree with ac....you have the right to do what you did and it is not un-ethical....come on people. I guess I have not thought about doing what you did before but I am now. I wish the dnr had the pref point only drawing as well. I have always went for the mid seasons and hoping that I get drawn. This year even that didn't work so I got a pref point. Might go for season a or b next year.