Walleye Stamp?

[chub]

Quote:

Somebody sell me on "What will it do".

Right on. But...

Too many taxes and fees get "sold" based on one thing, and then get unraveled by the next year's session so that the reason they got agreement to collect money no longer governs the fee or tax, so it then just becomes general funds that lose their audit trail. MN has one of the largest "general funds" in the nation (12th largest, vs. 21st in population) - we trail the majority of the nation in traceability and accountability for the tax and fee dollars extracted from each person's wallet.

Its not about $5, I'd pay it for now. But, to watch this state's people, including myself, get robbed over and over and over again without just causes that stand even the most feeble tests of time and common sense ... at the least, that is worth "complaining" about in MN, but I would call it healthy dissent instead.

If more people started rejecting tax and fee increases first based solely on MN's track record, this state might have a chance against the rest of the nation. But right now, MN is being left in the dust by more progressive states when it comes to public policy toward natural resources - and another fee will just cover it up for another few years.

Ironica example: As of last year in Utah, you can now fish TWO lines and the walleye limit went from 6 to 10 - where walleyes are not native! In MN, where walleyes are native and are stocked, we can't get past one line and they are talking about reducing the limit from 6 to 4.

I can find more than enough examples, like this one, across the country from the last 5 years to convince me MN DNR and our legislators are not up to the task of managing this state's natural resources. They may know the science and have PhD's in forestry and biology, but they get an F for fiscal management, public policy, and consituent accountability. They can stick any new fee where the sun doesn't shine, walleye stamp, whatever!

EXACTLY!!

One thing about your Utah example though, I would guess that populations and licensed anglers have something to do with that though. I understand your point, and there is no logical reason we here should not be allowed two lines, but you'll hear those that will scream, if our limits were increased... .

But you are right on money about our legislature and DNR.

[Sandmannd]

Quote:

Somebody sell me on "What will it do".

Right on. But...

Too many taxes and fees get "sold" based on one thing, and then get unraveled by the next year's session so that the reason they got agreement to collect money no longer governs the fee or tax, so it then just becomes general funds that lose their audit trail. MN has one of the largest "general funds" in the nation (12th largest, vs. 21st in population) - we trail the majority of the nation in traceability and accountability for the tax and fee dollars extracted from each person's wallet.

Its not about $5, I'd pay it for now. But, to watch this state's people, including myself, get robbed over and over and over again without just causes that stand even the most feeble tests of time and common sense ... at the least, that is worth "complaining" about in MN, but I would call it healthy dissent instead.

If more people started rejecting tax and fee increases first based solely on MN's track record, this state might have a chance against the rest of the nation. But right now, MN is being left in the dust by more progressive states when it comes to public policy toward natural resources - and another fee will just cover it up for another few years.

Ironica example: As of last year in Utah, you can now fish TWO lines and the walleye limit went from 6 to 10 - where walleyes are not native! In MN, where walleyes are native and are stocked, we can't get past one line and they are talking about reducing the limit from 6 to 4.

I can find more than enough examples, like this one, across the country from the last 5 years to convince me MN DNR and our legislators are not up to the task of managing this state's natural resources. They may know the science and have PhD's in forestry and biology, but they get an F for fiscal management, public policy, and consituent accountability. They can stick any new fee where the sun doesn't shine, walleye stamp, whatever!

<--------- Standing and applauding. One of the best posts I've read on this.

[SkitterPopper]

WOW! I have to agree with others on here and say that if $5 is a problem then you need to pick another sport. I have not seen any threads about shinners for $7.00 a dozen. I don't think the $5 fee has anything to do with most of the agruments on here, it is distrust with the local government. I know the DNR has done such a terrible job so far, I never catch any fish. To say they waste money and would spend it all somewhere else is just you being paranoid of government spending. Has the government spent money foolishly, YES! Do they always waste money and not do what they say, NO!

I think we have one of the best stocking programs in the country. And to compare Utah regulations with Minnesota is just comedy. They are two very, very different states.

I am not telling anyone to buy the stamp. I just think the state has done a great job so far on the thousands of lakes in Minnesota. I think you would be suprised to know how many lakes would be void of walleyes if there was not a stocking program. And they are not all 8' duck ponds. There are a lot of lakes that just can not have natural reproduction.

Ok, swing away guy!

[chub]

I think we have one of the best stocking programs in the country.

I am not telling anyone to buy the stamp. I just think the state has done a great job so far on the thousands of lakes in Minnesota. I think you would be suprised to know how many lakes would be void of walleyes if there was not a stocking program. And they are not all 8' duck ponds. There are a lot of lakes that just can not have natural reproduction.

Ok, swing away guy!

So what's the additional five bucks going to get you? The walleye fishing in this state is good.

The DOD does a great job too. Do you have a problem with 500 dollar toilet seats?

What added benefit is the stamp going accomplish?

As was mentioned before, should there be Bass stamp too? Maybe two, one for largemouth and a seperate one for Smallmouth. Let's not forget the Bluegill stamp too.

As long as it was purely optional, I could care less. Like others have said, odds are it wouldn't stay that way.

I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure someone out there has them or can find them, but how much money is taken in each year by the state in hunting and fishing licenses, both res. and non res., with the correponding stamps?

And if you don't think your legislators will be drueling over a DNR windfall, one probably needn't look further than the Mn State Lottery, or the 3/8ths tax bill to get an idea.

Distrust of our state govt.? Absolutely!

[mechanictim]

Maybe we should start an organization for Walleyes. Something like Walleye Fishing Unlimited Forever. If the state starts collecting money for stocking fish there should be a citizens group seperate from the state that could offer some oversight/guidance for this stocking program.

Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever have done a lot of good for hunters in providing both birds and places to hunt. Both orginazations keep tabs on where the stamp money the states and feds collect goes and add in private donations to create some pretty good hunting compared to what could be.

Even the snowmobile trail stamp started a few years ago goes to help local clubs operate a pretty decent trail system in this state.

If the walleye stamp becomes a reality I would hope there is somecitizen group that could work with the state to ensurethe money is well spent. If not we will probably be seeing "Walleye Way Memorial Bike Trail" Signsall over the state.

[mechanictim]

And yes I am buying anew space bar tommorow.

[hhguide]

I agree with whoever is going to pay the the 5 bucks its a once a year thing. dont buy one crank bait and theirs your 5 Bucks. I do agree with people concerns with where the money is going but I do think it will go to the stocking.

[upnorth]

I agree with whoever is going to pay the the 5 bucks its a once a year thing. dont buy one crank bait and theirs your 5 Bucks. I do agree with people concerns with where the money is going but I do think it will go to the stocking.

You aren't seeing the other side here....it ain't the money, it is the govt perpetually wanting more of our money and giving us less for it. Yep the 1st couple years the money will go to stocking and then it will be wriggled off to something else the state would like to spend it on. It happens over and over and over.

[hhguide]

I guess I dont understand tell me more spefic areas and laws that have been passed please.

[SkitterPopper]

Well believe it or not the government is not trying to take your last dollar. Unfortunately I live in the metro area and I am unable to go to Lake of the Woods or Mille Lacs every weekend. I usual fish a metro lake a couple times a week. I know without a doubt that the lakes that I fish would not produce fish like they do if it were not for stocking programs. If you don't believe this you are just sticking your head in the sand. I will choose to buy a stamp. If you choose not to, well that is your decision.

The fishing license fee is $18.00 in Minnesota for a single angler. Wow, they are really sticking it to us for a whole year of fishing. I do not know another sport which is cheaper than $18.00 a year!

[upnorth]

Here is one, what happened to the money from the lottery? That was supposed to be the end all for DNR and environment, wasn't it. Where did all that money go?

[moviking]

well here is my 2 cents worth. Save your money and go buy a beer, why buy a stamp when the permits are supposed to pay for stocking. Just like the liciense plate "critical habitat" isn't it all critical?

[croixflats]

hey maybe we should get a football stamp to, so that way we can get a new stadium.

[Maverick1951]

Here is one, what happened to the money from the lottery? That was supposed to be the end all for DNR and environment, wasn't it. Where did all that money go?

First of all, here is the article of the Minnesota Constitution that requires 40 percent of lottery proceeds go to the environment.

Sec. 14. Environment and natural resources fund. A permanent environment and natural resources trust fund is established in the state treasury. Loans may be made of up to five percent of the principal of the fund for water system improvements as provided by law. The assets of the fund shall be appropriated by law for the public purpose of protection, conservation, preservation, and enhancement of the state's air, water, land, fish, wildlife, and other natural resources. The amount appropriated each year of a biennium, commencing on July 1 in each odd-numbered year and ending on and including June 30 in the next odd-numbered year, may be up to 5-1/2 percent of the market value of the fund on June 30 one year before the start of the biennium. Not less than 40 percent of the net proceeds from any state-operated lottery must be credited to the fund until the year 2025.

You can go to the Minnesota Lottery website to see the amount of money allotted to the trust fund and the amount spent on projects.

Secondly, the walleye stamp is 100% voluntary and all proceeds, 100%, must be used for stocking purposes. I am amazed at the paranoia displayed by 90 percent of the posters regarding this. You spend way too much time worrying about what might happen. Sure, they could change the law and make it mandatory, but someone finally came up with a way to help our sport. Buy one or don't, it really doesn't matter to me, but for crying outloud try to leave the worn out political paranoid (and often inaccurate) opinions out of it.

By the way, I have had an excellent walleye season. I have already been on the water at least 18 times. Let me do the math. So far that's about $1.00 a day for some great entertainment. Darn that DNR, costing me so much just to do what I have a right to do. In that same time I'm sure I spent $100 on cigars. Hey, what about a cigar stamp?

[chub]

Well believe it or not the government is not trying to take your last dollar.

[Jameson]

For the folks who think the monies from a walleye stamp will be diverted away from it's original destination; Could you please show an example of how this is happening to the stamps we already purchase? Pheasant, MN duck, federal duck, trout.

I have always believed that the monies generated by our current stamps is some of the most wisely spent money.

Didn't the walleye stamp grab momentum because of an upcoming fisheries division budget crunch? I believe I read that the fisheries division has been using funds from the hunting division for many years. The fisheries needs to bring in more money to just maintain the level it is currently at. Several ways to do that. First, trying a voluntary stamp seems to be an O.K. way to go. If that doesn't work, some sort of mandatory fee increase will be necessary to maintain our current fisheries.

[Sandmannd]

If that doesn't work, some sort of mandatory fee increase will be necessary to maintain our current fisheries.

No offense to you, I can respect your thoughts. But it is this way of thinking that drives me to drink. We can't figure out how to budget with what you have now so we'll just ask for more money. And then in two years we'll raise the license fee and still ask for the volunteer stamp. Then the year after we will make the stamp mandatory. And then in five years we'll introduce a new stamp. Then................

All I'm saying is to learn to budget and show me where the money is going first. I do like the idea another poster had of having a group of citizens control it, like the pheasants forever group. At least then the money goes where it should. That I would be for and happily contribute to. Govt sucks and is way out of control with their spending.

[Grant Pearson]

I agree with you shane, but I will also have to add that while yes, they do have to budget with what they have, the costs associated with them doing their jobs are going up as well. Think about the CO's doing their jobs. The price of gas alone has increased dramatically in the last few years. If you have $1,000 budgeted for gas, say, every month, and it's been that way for the last 2 years, can you say that you'll be able to do your job as efficient as before when the money strecthed further? I agree that they need to be careful with their spending and have it watched, but with the cost of things, especially gas and wages going up (CO's are union and have mandatory raises every year), I don't think a little bump in what I pay for a license would be that bad. Especailly if it helps pay to keep our natrual resources in standing order and keep poachers from ruining things for the rest of us.

[SkitterPopper]

Quote:

For the folks who think the monies from a walleye stamp will be diverted away from it's original destination; Could you please show an example of how this is happening to the stamps we already purchase? Pheasant, MN duck, federal duck, trout.

I have always believed that the monies generated by our current stamps is some of the most wisely spent money.

Didn't the walleye stamp grab momentum because of an upcoming fisheries division budget crunch? I believe I read that the fisheries division has been using funds from the hunting division for many years. The fisheries needs to bring in more money to just maintain the level it is currently at. Several ways to do that. First, trying a voluntary stamp seems to be an O.K. way to go. If that doesn't work, some sort of mandatory fee increase will be necessary to maintain our current fisheries.

Finally, someone that understands the whole picture!

Are we paying the same for gas and equipment as we were 20 years ago? I think not. How can we expect the Fisheries Department to survive without fee increases in licenses or some other kind of financial help? It is just not possible.

To the people saying well I pay for 10 licenses a year and that is enough. Well YOU choose to hunt or fish that species so you have to pay to play as they say. The money you pay for those licenses go towards habitat, research, and stocking programs.

As far as them doing a good job now, well that is true. Would I be willing to give $5.00 a year for it to be better? You betcha!

I will end there as I can see nothing more constructive could come from this post going back and forth.

Have a great 4th of July weekend!

[TNFL]

Ahhh fees.......

Why do I pay $65 for a co-angler/spouse to fish 3 times a year in WI. And, they don't do weekend/spouse, so it would be $40 per weekend at $20 a piece if I went that route.

Yet $26 (i Think) for MN to fish 30+ times.

A $5 stamp to improve MN fishing doesn't seem like a big deal when I look at that way.

[DTro]

I really think that the current overall Economy or at least the perception of the Economy is what is upsetting people. Even the most beloved of pastimes cannot weather the storm without some changes.

I see both sides of the issue, but have no problem with it as long as it is voluntary.

At least this way people can put their money where their mouth is.

I just wonder if there will be enough “volunteers” to make it worthwhile………

I bet if there was some sort of incentive for purchasing said stamp (two lines perhaps) that the increase of “volunteers” would skyrocket.

But that is a whole new can of worms.

[Grant Pearson]

With as much time, energy, and money that I put into fishing, and the outdoors, I have no problem spending an extra $5, $10, or whatever it might be. Just think about duck hunting. We have to get a small game license, federal stamp and a state stamp. Yes, that adds up quick, but to me, it's worth it because the money collected goes to a great cause. Why would the walleye stamp be any different?

[BigWadeS]

well it does add up with Shiners being at $8.50 a doz and leeches being up at $27 a pound it all adds up, I have no problem paying for special stamps or license fee's but when you figure in the cost of bait and gas, it will definitly rub many people the wrong way, like it was mentioned earlier $5 bucks here and $5 bucks there, it does add up, I need to find someone to buy my bait so I can pay for the stamps.....

[Sandmannd]

I agree with you shane, but I will also have to add that while yes, they do have to budget with what they have, the costs associated with them doing their jobs are going up as well. Think about the CO's doing their jobs. The price of gas alone has increased dramatically in the last few years. If you have $1,000 budgeted for gas, say, every month, and it's been that way for the last 2 years, can you say that you'll be able to do your job as efficient as before when the money strecthed further? I agree that they need to be careful with their spending and have it watched, but with the cost of things, especially gas and wages going up (CO's are union and have mandatory raises every year), I don't think a little bump in what I pay for a license would be that bad. Especailly if it helps pay to keep our natrual resources in standing order and keep poachers from ruining things for the rest of us.

Yep, price of gas is up. It's costing me around $50 everytime out fishing. That's the main reason I ask those I take out to help pay for gas. If they need the money then they should raise the license fee and not hide it behind a stamp. If you are going to do a $5 eye stamp, it better all go to walleye stocking. As far as the gas for them, I make about 5% (Maybe) more than I did two years ago. Gas has gone up by 200%. Tell me how that adds up? I can't go to my boss and say I need more money for gas, why should they? Learn to budget again. Our taxes still go up every year so they do get more.

[Grant Pearson]

Any sport you participate in will add up. Think about hunting. If you hunt for pheasents, ducks/geese, and deer in the same year, you have to get your deer license, small game license and 3 different stamps. The stamps alone will set you back $30. Is the ability to go out and fish walleyes, something that we enjoy doing, worth an extra $5 a year, or whatever they set it at? It's less than a dozen shiners............

[Grant Pearson]

I totally agree that they need to budget better. At the same time, if they're budgeted two million dolloars a year, and gas now takes up double what it did two years ago, and salaries are up 5%, then, to stay within that budget, something has to give if they decide not to raise prices or add new stamps. What should be given up? what if they had to cut the number of CO's by 25% to stay in budget? Or what if they have to stop stocking walleyes completely to stay in budget? What should we give up for them to stay in budget?

[Sandmannd]

I totally agree that they need to budget better. At the same time, if they're budgeted two million dolloars a year, and gas now takes up double what it did two years ago, and salaries are up 5%, then, to stay within that budget, something has to give if they decide not to raise prices or add new stamps. What should be given up? what if they had to cut the number of CO's by 25% to stay in budget? Or what if they have to stop stocking walleyes completely to stay in budget? What should we give up for them to stay in budget?

\

So if my family is budgeted for 50k a year and gas is the same for me as for them what gives for me? What do I give up? I quit buying some name brand or cut out some of the things I would like to be doing. We don't go to the movies or go out a hole lot because of what sitters and other things cost, not to mention the gas to get there. My feeling is that some of you have a lot to learn about how budgeting works out. You can't spend all your money the day you get it and mooch off others until your next pay day. You have to learn to stretch it the whole two weeks. Maybe it meens no soda and drink more water. Maybe it means generic diapers and not huggies. But something has to give on my end cause no one else is going to help me. If anything they will just take more from me.

[Harmonica Bear]

5 bucks to me isn't a big deal, so let me say that first. But doesn't all license revenue now go to the General Fund and then appropriated back to the DNR by the legislature? And isn’t that revenue generated greater then the appropriated budget? Please correct me if I’m wrong, because I’ve been known to be, or maybe it has changed, but I swear it used to be that way. If that’s the case, it just seems to me a $5 dollar stamp is kind of silly when there is already enough funds generated through licenses and existing fees to sustain and improve what we already have.

[Grant Pearson]

Point taken, and I agree. I agree that some need to budget better. Some of us can and do budget better than others think, and money is tighter than some think. Even with budgeting, the money that comes in doesn't go as far as it used to. Also, When the money does come in, Certain things are bought to make sure it lasts the two weeks, like generic diapers instead of huggies, food, etc., and then if and only if, there's money left over, certain extras are budgeted. And, certain budgets are larger than other budgets, so not everyone can afford to do certain things.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I went golfing for the first time in 5 years this weekend. For 18 holes, half a cart, 2 bottles of Bud, and a half on a pizza it cost me $60!

I think the clubs will be going back into storage once again! It was fun, but not worth the money!

I guess every sport is turning into the rich mans game.

However at 18 bucks a year to fish 10,000 lakes and, IF I FEEL LIKE IT, $5 more to add to an already great stocking program, I just paid for 3 yeasrs of fun in one day for 3 hours of frustration!

We got it pretty good as fishermen in MN! Just think of all the people that come in form other states with jaws hanging open and envy smeared all over their face!

A $5 voluntary walleye stamp is no reason to start and 15 page bi%chfest! Come on!