Cannon Lake & River Fishing Reports

[Jesse Drummer]

muddog, you talking about the carp being "world class" or what specie? just kerious

[Scott M]

Just to shed a little light on the topic, there was a recent study done by Windom DNR Fisheries on the topic of walleye, bullhead, and catfish abundance. I believe it will be online some time in 2009. There is an inverse relationship between bullhead and channel catfish numbers, which is believed to be a result of catfish predation. In 1975, there was a research project on food habits of walleye in southern Minnesota lakes that found walleye must be larger than 16 inches to effectively feed on small black bullhead. That’s a lot of time for a fish to learn to eat other forage first or to ever effectively feed on bullhead. The results of that study suggest that there doesn’t seem to be a negative relationship between channel catfish and walleye abundance.

It comes down to the type of predators and feeding style that catfish and walleye are and exhibit, their respective positions in the water column, and their mouth shape. Give me a hungry walleye, a hungry cat, and ten bullheads in a tank and I’ll always put my money on the catfish. Cats just are more efficient predators of bullheads.

If you want a strong walleye lake you usually don’t rely on bullheads as forage, so I wouldn’t say that from a walleye fishing perspective that fishing would be better off with a bunch of bullheads instead of in-check numbers of bullheads via catfish. Remember that black bullheads in excess can have similar negative effects on waters like carp: increased turbidity, decreased vegetation, algal blooms, etc. Be careful when asking for more bullheads…unless we can get some more I-O-Wegians to come up and thin them down

Sheepheadslayer brought up Tetonka, it’s a great lake for both catfish and walleye (although most people don’t target the catfish and they don’t show up the best in nets). You could say the same thing about all of the Cannon chain lakes. Cats and walleye co-exist with no problem. Lots of great lakes for walleye and catfish out there. Loon, Bass, Fountain, Albert Lea, Cannon chain lakes, Swan, Allie, Marion, Shetek, Fox, Okabena, etc.

I think the DNR has a tough balance to maintain - science vs. public opinion. Fisheries Biology/limnology tell them one thing while public opinion (and their paychecks) tell them another. I think they are getting better at it as of late.

It’s a tough road to hoe, but it is how your lakes are managed. The human element of fisheries plays as much into fisheries management as the fish do. More than a few people have told me that fisheries management is more about people management than fish management.

[riverrat56]

Thanks for the info da_chise.

I would have only 1 point too dispute and that is the size of a walleye that will prey on bullheads and primary bullheads. In a lake that has a lack of other prime walleye forage (shad, shiner, chubs, fatheads, perch) walleyes will turn to bullheads as soon as they grow big enough, this is especially true from late June on through the rest of the year. Young of the year bullheads will fill the void left by the lack of other baitfish. I have cleaned many 14" walleyes (and a few down to 13") that have either multiple small bullheads (under 1" in early summer) or 1 larger bullhead (3-5" most likely hatched the year before) In this particular lake the only fish I have ever found in walleye stomach is bullheads, including a 19" fish that had 2 6-7" bullheads in it, can you say FAT. I am sure they would not be feeding on them if other forage was avalible, but with the lack of it they feed heavily on them.

[Team Otter]

Thanks Scott.

[Muddog]

Quote:

I would have only 1 point too dispute and that is the size of a walleye that will prey on bullheads and primary bullheads. In a lake that has a lack of other prime walleye forage (shad, shiner, chubs, fatheads, perch) walleyes will turn to bullheads as soon as they grow big enough, this is especially true from late June on through the rest of the year. Young of the year bullheads will fill the void left by the lack of other baitfish. I have cleaned many 14" walleyes (and a few down to 13") that have either multiple small bullheads (under 1" in early summer) or 1 larger bullhead (3-5" most likely hatched the year before) In this particular lake the only fish I have ever found in walleye stomach is bullheads, including a 19" fish that had 2 6-7" bullheads in it, can you say FAT. I am sure they would not be feeding on them if other forage was avalible, but with the lack of it they feed heavily on them.

It sounds as if the lake you are talking about has some big problems. After reading it all I could think was; what are the Bullheads eating? Something tells me there is a sculpin or two more in this lake then your letting on

Quote:

muddog, you talking about the carp being "world class" or what specie? just kerious

I like that I mention world class and the first thing that pops up is Carp. It is a world class fish.

[MinnesotaMongo]

Thank you Da Chis - I was hoping you would pipe up on this thread. Are you a fisheries biologist by trade?

I remember reading about anecdotal evidence of Walleye predation of small bullheads from an article on fishing walleye in Eutrophic lakes written by Doug Stange. He cut his teeth on many of these types of lakes. He claimed, like Riverrat, that walleyes pigged out on those small 2-3 bullheads.

Again - thanks for the great thread. Good information.

[riverrat56]

It sounds as if the lake you are talking about has some big problems. After reading it all I could think was; what are the Bullheads eating? Something tells me there is a sculpin or two more in this lake then your letting on

I shouldn't have said there is no other baitfish, the lake does have a small population of fathead minnows that seems to be growing every year. I would assume that the bullheads eat these as well as any other bugs or invertabrets they can find. There has been a slow decline in bullhead numbers out there that has maybe led to the fathead numbers increasing. As too why the bullheads are thinning out? Two things come to mind, 1 is that the walleyes absolutley love them and 2 is that the lake is lower than normal by about ~3' and this may effect the bullhead hatch.

The point I was getting at is that the walleyes will make bullheads their main forage when it is the most abundant thing in the lake. If they bullhead numbers keep dropping I am led to believe the fatheads will fill the nitch of main forage base?

[MinnesotaMongo]

The other thing I wonder about is the nature of walleyes in our bowl lakes. Are groups of them more pelagic - relating to all those clouds of bullhead fingerlings that work across the lake....

[riverrat56]

I have seen walleyes bust up a school of bullheads on the surface of the water in 13' of water and also seen the whole shoreline explode with baby bullheads being pushed up into the shallows.

I have also found clouds of bullheads so thick you can't read through them on the depth finder, so thick that you snagged 2 at a time on your crank baits but around the edges of these fish were walleyes. I don't know if they pushed them there or if the bullheads schooled up on their own and the walleyes just related to that?

[brian6715]

I think catfish would be great for our lakes... mainly to thin out the stunted panfish and maybe even hurt the carp populations. Plus who doesn't like fighting a fish that can easily get over 10 pounds?!

I totally agree with the cormorant thing, I live on wells/cannon, and IMO they are the #1 reason for the decline of this fishery from what it was about 5-7 years ago. They have sinced moved on to sakatah and tetonka and I hope something changes soon before all of our DNR funds go right into cormorant food. Half of the trees on the main island on Wells lake had absolutely no leaves on them at all this summer, and the ground was inches deep in bird droppings!

[Jesse Drummer]

y can't we shoot the cormorant?

[zepman]

I noticed a significant increase in Cormorants on Lura Lake this past summer as well. Dirty, stinky and rotten. Come to think of it, that could be used to describe both lake and bird. Ughhh!!

[Whisker Warrior]

I will let you in on something here though. In this area there is a world class fishery, but not Walleyes. So no one pays it the least bit of attention.

I believe you are talking about the infamous Flathead Catfish...i caught three over 30 lbs this year and i believe its only going to get better down the road!

[MinnesotaMongo]

I noticed a significant increase in Cormorants on Lura Lake this past summer as well. Dirty, stinky and rotten. Come to think of it, that could be used to describe both lake and bird. Ughhh!!

I love it how they try the old Star Wars trick on you when you get close - ejecting all their "refuse" out the back before they go into hyper-space. Almost nailed my son on the shoulder at Lura this summer.

Yick....

[JBMasterAngler]

I've heard mention that the DNR was going to allow the shooting of cormorants during duck hunting season...I think the 1 thing that will prevent that is they are pretty much un-edible. As much as I hate cormorants and dream of their extinction one day, it'd be bad for business to shoot them all up and leave them there.

If walleyes like bullhead so much, then wouldn't they also like eating catfish fingerlings?

[Team Otter]

y can't we shoot the cormorant?

They're federally protected.

[Muddog]

Quote:

The other thing I wonder about is the nature of walleyes in our bowl lakes. Are groups of them more pelagic - relating to all those clouds of bullhead fingerlings that work across the lake....

One would have to think so. I do know that while all the Bullhead fry are swimming along the shoreline there is a great shallow water bite for predator fish and after they move out form shore the shallow bite slows. It could be from water temp, but it is a good indicator of what is happining at the time.

As with most fishing "Match the hatch".

On calm days (more then 1 in a row) I can't see why walleye wouldn't follow the scent trail of the cloud of bullheads out to open water. As long as the fish have a trail to follow, They well follow it. Don't they catch suspended Walleye following bait fish on lakes like Erie?

Just to add one more thing. If you ever see bait fish stacked up along the shoreline it is more then likely that the predators have pushed them there. If they go deep they are fish food!

[riverrat56]

If walleyes like bullhead so much, then wouldn't they also like eating catfish fingerlings?

I would guess so, but I don't think catfish are as prolific of spawners as bullheads are so their won't be the mass number of small catfish in the lake.

[Team Clam]

Muddog-

You are correct. On Lake Erie, we catch 95% of our big fish within 10 feet of the surface. Almost all of the big mama females are suspended. They aint chasin bullheads out there though.

[Willy]

If walleyes like bullhead so much, then wouldn't they also like eating catfish fingerlings?

Well there is a type of catfish that is one of the best live walleye baits known to man. Especially in river systems. They are called a madtom or willowcat and they are a type of catfish.

Also, I have never seen anything that says a healthy channel catfish population ruins a walleye population or has any adverse effect on them. Flatheads may be a different story, but I know ever since they stocked them in Volney, they have eaten pretty much all the bullheads and the walleye fishing has been better than before when the lake was full of "smoothies".

Bullhead populations also must stay in check in order for our lakes to be healhty walleye lakes. Too many bullheads and all you have is a slough. You can use Volney as an example. They stocked the flatheads to kill the bullies so that other fish species could thrive.

They have the ability to take over a lake. Look at what happens sometimes after a winterkill they take over and the lake is done until it kills again and is restocked.

My opinion would have to be that a large bullhead population is MUCH more harmful than any type of catfish population. Also catfish are far less likely to take over a lake like bullheads can and will if given the opportunity.

[Muddog]

All though Hanska is in the SW Mn forum, I would like to say that this is a lake that has a good Walleye population along with more Bullhead then I like to deal with. Is it an exception to the rule? It seems the two live together quite well in this lake. I don't think nightcrawlers would be my bait of choice for Walleyes in this lake though.

All that I have read about this type of thing seems to say that Large Mouth Bass have more to do with Walleye numbers then from other fish.

[riverrat56]

MD, Hanska was the lake I was refering to in most of my previous posts. The bullheads are being slowly reduced in number and fatheads are starting to show up more and more. Not sure if it is due to the walleyes getting large enough to make them their main forage or due to the introduction of channel cats in the lake (there are a few, most are small still but No-net iced one ~10lbs last year) Before this lake was killed and restocked in the late 90's it was a great fishery for crappies and sunfish, as well as bass, northerns and walleyes. Ever since then it was been primarily a walleye lake with a few northerns and now the crappies appear to be back but only in limited numbers and areas.

[lexifer]

Hey all, first post here! I have lived on Cannon for 19 years and have logged many hours walleye fishing on this lake.

Channel cats have been there in numbers and size since I started fishing it. The walleye fishing on this lake up until about 2 years ago has been exceptional - (stocking works well on some lakes fellas). I don't think cats and walleye really compete with each other on this lake because of it's large forage base. My theory for the decline in walleye fishing as of late is definately the commorants and maybe combined with forage abundance.

Never (not even once)cleaned a walleye out of this lake with a bullhead in his belly.

The predominent forage of Cannon is Lake Shiners believe it or not.

[Team Otter]

lexifer, welcome aboard and thank you for your input.

[ivycreek08]

so ah... kinda back to the original question here... does anyone know of any good spots or where to find these kitty cats on cannon? Seems most people on here wouldn't mind sharing this info... just lookin for a good bite on something fun to catch, not a typical day out fishin...

[Scott M]

Mongo, the answer to your question is yes

The Cannon chain lakes and Hanska are very different systems. I wouldn't doubt one bit that Hanska big walleyes, over 14-16 inches, are chomping on bullheads because of the lack of perch and other forage. I was told by someone that had surveyed the lake that those walleyes under that size were rail thin...tough for those fish to get on top of any sort of prey base until they get big enough to start hitting the bullheads (Sounds like a great lake for a Salmo bullhead colored hornet or stand out in the crowd with another presentation, probably more of an angler psychology issue ) I think the 2004 survey results are in line with what was described to me and what riverrat describes...Tons of bullheads, everywhere. Still, its good to see the fry stocking is taking out there and the fish are moving through the system. I'm sure that lake got surveyed this year or will be next year, but that's a question for Hutchinson DNR.

Cormorants get this reputation of being fishery spoilers. Perception trumps reality. Scientific literature on cormorant predation shows that smaller fish, like 2-6 inches, that are most available, are the preferred diet for DCCOs. In the Cannon chain (and most SC MN lakes), 2-6" fish are young of year carp, freshwater drum, bullheads, minnows, and an occasional crappie, perch, or bluegill. Definitely not walleyes, and there are aren't enough birds to put a dent in the forage fish population.

It can be tough to attribute low fish abundances from apparent cormorant predation due to the variable nature of fish stocks. Many factors influence these populations in our part of the state: nutrient loading and lake chemistry changes, weather & winterkill, spawning success or failure, angling pressure, etc. These are the challenges of south central Minnesota. This is why you are seeing a great deal of research on cormorants around the nation and here in Minnesota, so hopefully there will be more known in the future. For now, what has been observed in diet studies suggests that cormorants aren’t having measurable effects on fish populations.

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FWIW, I'm glad to see this post because I am planning on hitting Cannon and Roberds pretty hard for cats. There are a lot of great catfish lakes out there that aren't getting enough attention, winter or summer and its a shame. Stay tuned to FM for a great ice catfishing video and don't be afraid to apply the techniques on local lakes with cat populations. Check out the Catfish forum and do some searching. You'll find a few popular winter cat lakes statewide as well. Most of the state's catfish lakes are south of I94, and most are in SC MN.

[Team Otter]

You are the man Scott. Thanks again for taking the time to educate.

[harvey lee]

Why fish for walleyes when one can catch channels on a ice rod? great fighter.

[Whisker Warrior]

Hey da_chise i grew up in Faribo and have fished Roberds alot but never got into a consistent channel bite...never really targeted them though so i was wondering how you would go about it? Live bait or cut bait?, structure? depth? any input would be great.

[wanger29]

(Sounds like a great lake for a Salmo bullhead colored hornet or stand out in the crowd with another presentation, probably more of an angler psychology issue )

This caught my eye because me & my friend recently had a discussion which brushed on this subject a quite bit. After the past few years we've been finding an increase in the numbers of bullheads in the bellys of the walleyes we've caught. Matter of fact this last summer was by far & away the most to date. He was arguing that we either net some bullys for future walleye fishing or bully colored lures. I had to argue with that idea. I don't think bullheads are the golden ticket. I think the fact of the matter is they're there over anything else.I've seen some pretty LARGE schools of bullys this year. I know for a fact that eyes are not afraid to take down a belly full of bullys. But I still think the eyes will be more easily targeted using something else rather than anything relating to that of a bully. It reminds me of an analogy an old timer river-rat told me on the Mississippi once, "Why go to a steak house & order a hamburger?"