Ely Timberjay..letter to the editor

[jiganator]

Monday, September 10, 2007 Volume 18, Issue 35

Metro attitudes at the root of BWCAW shooting incident

Letter to the editor from Ross Petersen - Ely, Minn.

I found Richard Elliot’s not so subtle threats in his 8/25/07 letter to the editor to be about what I’d expect from our metro neighbors. Now instead of trying to tell us how and where we can recreate, how to log, how to mine, hunt, fish, camp, 4 wheel, snowmobile, drive, walk, etc. etc., Mr. Elliot is trying to tell us how our courts should rule.

Well, Mr. Elliot, if you and your children are afraid, I suggest that you limit your canoeing to Lake Minnetonka, and just ignore us. If you can’t come up here without trying to tell us what to do, please don’t come. After all, did you see any letters in the Mpls. Star Tribune from Rangers threatening not to shop at the Mall of America until you start inspecting your bridges better? How about the same consideration?

Why do you folks feel the need to try to control everything in NE Minnesota? If you and the Friends of the Boundary Waters and the Sierra Club, etc. all faded away, this area would be just as nice 20 years from now as it is now and was 20 years ago. In my opinion, your continual meddling in our affairs is the root cause for the recent shooting incident. We have a tremendous frustration up here for the constant meddling and stupid regulations that are continually forced on us from urban people who often have no idea what they are talking about and barely know this area. When you have an area that feels this angry and frustrated, it’s always the young males that lash out, often without considering the consequences. If you want to keep this from happening again, Mr. Elliot, maybe you and yours should take your moral and intellectual superiority and direct it toward fixing your bridges and your other problems and quit trying to control every aspect of our lives.

[bwtrout]

The head line should read; Alcohol abuse at the root of BWCAW shooting incident

[ripstick]

To be honest its on the money. A lot of people wanting to cover up the lives they in by changing the north. It just doesnt come out it the wash.

[bwtrout]

So I should get drunk and clear them out

[bwtrout]

Mr. Ross Peterson and his "we" needs to check on what he thinks he is in control of. He owns his private property and has a vote on how his city and county is run. The rest is State (Minnesotans including Mr. Peterson) and Federal (US citizens including Mr. Peterson)

[gunflint]

As I'm sure most around here know, I agree with the overall sentiment of the letter. However, there is no excuse for what these fellows are accused of. Malicious use of a firearm is and should be a crime. As a strong supporter of the second amendment it is my hope that if found guilty these folks pay dearly. It's exactly this type of behavior that turns fence sitters into gun control supporters.

[bwtrout]

Quotes from “Metro attitudes at the root of BWCAW shooting incident - By Letter to the editor from Ross Petersen- Ely, Minn."

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“Now instead of trying to tell us how and where we can recreate, how to log, how to mine, hunt, fish, camp, 4 wheel, snowmobile, drive, walk, etc. etc.,”

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Everyone has to follow the same laws. Anarchy?

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“Mr. Elliot is trying to tell us how our courts should rule. “

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I’m sure St. Louis County Court will have little to do in this case if State, Federal, or even International charges result.

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"After all, did you see any letters in the Mpls. Star Tribune from Rangers threatening not to shop at the Mall of America until you start inspecting your bridges better?”

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The “I” in I-35w (the bridge) stands for Interstate and is maintained by Mn/(Contact Us Please); Minnesota Department of Transportation, a statewide agency.

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“We have a tremendous frustration up here for the constant meddling and stupid regulations that are continually forced on us from urban people who often have no idea what they are talking about and barely know this area.”

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The Iron Range has a significant voting influence.

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“When you have an area that feels this angry and frustrated, it’s always the young males that lash out, often without considering the consequences.”

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Who were with adult men. Led by example?

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“If you want to keep this from happening again, Mr. Elliot, maybe you and yours should take your moral and intellectual superiority and direct it toward fixing your bridges and your other problems and quit trying to control every aspect of our lives.”

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Psycho threat, I’d keep my eye on Mr. Petersen!

Sentiment

[Scott M]

A lot of times, letters to the editor are the overly vocal minority.

I believe Mark Twain puts it best: It is better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[83walleye]

Thanks for the read...this issue will go on forever. Any updates of this situation? It appears to be an ongoing case - I believe there are many anxious to see what happens.

[SledNeck]

Maybe the metro residents are telling us what to do because they feel that since such a large amount of their tax money goes to the Iron Range that they have some say over it. Thoughts?

[JustinG]

SledNeck,

Ever think that same thought just the other way around? Maybe we should be telling metro folks how to live their lives since the money collected from the taconite tax seems to be channeled towards light rail between Mpls. and St. Cloud. What good does that do us up here?

My question to you is this: What metropolitan tax money are you talking about that is being redireceted up here to the Iron Range? Have you driven on the highways around here? Is your local school district financially solvent? Has your city or town received state aid? I am just trying to figure out what you meant by that....

Justin

[bwtrout]

UGH!!!

Metro residences aren't deciding jack!!!

Do you honestly think that the metro population is making Northern Minnesota's policy's on logging, atv, hunting, and motor restrictions in the BWCA???

The DNR headquarters are located in the cities, maybe that's where that thought comes from???

THINK ABOUT IT, we elected all the decision makers.

I've lived in Babbitt, Ely, Iron River (Wi), and Spring Valley (Wi) Same thing different town every time. I hear a bunch of sniveling. EVERY COMMUNITY suffers various issues with employment, housing, infrastructure, state policies which effect funding, tourism, zoning, federal policies which effect funding, crime, blah, blah, and blah. Cry me a river. VOTE, become ACTIVE in local politics, VOLUNTEER for community betterment, or get drunk and shoot at stuff..

[Wade Joseph]

Not entirely BW....Seems to me there are some people in big cities that know little or nothing about the wilderness and managing it, yet want to use their money and influence to disuade those who do make the decisions. Its called lobbying. It happens all the time, and "country folk" don't get to do it much because most of us work very hard to make a living and don;t have a bank vault full of money to buy any votes with.

Lets just hope the legal system works and these fine upstanding individuals get the justice they deserve.

[scifisher]

Highways, state aid, school districts, it all depends on who you vote for. The real problem with rural folk is that they get caught up with the pro guns/anti-tax mentality. But these guys do exactly the same thing that the other guy would do. So, what do you do?

Don't get drunk and shoot up the lake. Don't make a menace of yourself when riding your snowmobile or ATV. Don't be an ignorant arse when you write a letter to the editor about things your community should control.

[Steve Foss]

Interesting discussion. Well, not really, I was just being polite.

It seems that, no matter what the BWCAW issue, all the meat eventually is boiled away and the same old bone of contention is revealed. And I'm not really talking just about the Bdub here. Any time the people of the United States (the majority acting through elected officials) make decisions that affect a local population in a way the local population doesn't like, it raises ire. Not at all just an Ely issue. Happens all over the nation. Happens all the time.

It's happened to me in a small town or two I used to live in, the majority (the U.S. government) deciding things that affected my town, things that affected me, things that I didn't like.

We live in America, where the majority rule.

And here's a motto for you. If this motto works as a rebuttal against those who burn an American flag in protest of American policies, it works equally as a rebuttal for those who rail (and have railed for going on 30 years) about what the majority has decided for one small American town.

MOTTO

America: Love her or leave her.

Sorry, just pullin' a few legs here. I do agree at least partly with BWtrout, and wholeheartedly in this case. You can whine or you can get busy making a difference. Entirely your choice. In my experience as a newspaper man, grassroots organizer and lobbyist, the whiners rarely bother trying to make a difference through affecting the polictical process. But I never give up hope! If you feel strongly enough to make your beliefs known in a online fishing forum, why not make those beliefs known to your elected representatives?

Sci, great avatar. Don't those darn penguins realize they should all just bury the hatchet and unite against their biggest enemy -- global warming? I do have to add, Sci, that I am part of the "rural folk" you mention in your post. I'm rural by choice. I like guns. I like individual freedom. I like low taxes. I can't have all three of them all the time, though, and I'll give up some of them now and then in favor of the greater good. I guess not getting everything I want every time I want it is just the price of living in a democracy.

[bwtrout]

Wade, I understand the whole lobbying thing, but the majority of decisions being made in St.Paul come from input they are gathering from the individual area DNR supervisors. If a local saw mill operator isn't getting any wood brought in due to tight policies regarding clear cuts or gosshawk nest and complains to St.Paul, I know the local forester will hear about it. If your unhappy with the policies visit them in your local DNR offices and attend the local meetings.

[bwtrout]

Stfcat,

Fun wrecker...

[jiganator]

Well, this IMO

If you don't think some person(s) from the cities who owns a .5 to 1 million dollar + cabin on any lake in northestern Minnesota..doesn't think they have more influence/say/rights how things are run/ruled. Then some person living(year around) in a mobile home on some back country road. Your sadly mistaken IMO.

Just like the BWCA fires, whats the #1 concern you heard on the news?

The million dollar homes they were trying to save. Did you ever hear about the fight to save some average joes place? I didn't

If you don't think the people who have bought up and built these high dollar vacation homes, haven't influanced the area, your wrong

These folks have driven many of the local people who were raised on these lakes, off. By pushing the land values and taxes so high, the local couldn't aford to keep their place. The place maybe even their grandparents lived and raised their families.

The locals are feeling pushed off/driven out.

Again, this is just what I have heard/observed from locals.

I also don't think that what was done in this shooting was good for anybody. These folks need to be brought to justice and shown this will not be tolerated!!

I also don't see this problem just going away anytime soon.

Jig

[hanson]

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If you feel strongly enough to make your beliefs known in a online fishing forum, why not make those beliefs known to your elected representatives?

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Amen there Steve.

[BDub]

I haven't heard all the facts about the BDub incident and charges haven't been brought yet. Hopefully that will happen soon and we'll know the whole story and the courts will take it from there.

As far as what is happening in small towns all across the nation, one of my favorite quotes is from Dorothy Molter:

“If it isn’t what you want, it’s probably something you deserve.”

In other words, get involved!

[BDub]

Saturday, September 08, 2007

The wait goes on for charges to be filed in BWCAW incident

Ely Echo editorial

After being the first to report on an alleged incident involving gunfire and terroristic threats in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, we still are waiting for charges to be filed.

In the August 11 edition of the Ely Echo, we reported what was released from the Lake County sheriff's department.

Here is that information: "The Lake County Sheriff's Office has apprehended five adult Ely residents and one juvenile Ely resident as a result of incidents that occurred on Basswood Lake in the late evening hours of August 7, 2007.

"Barney James Lakner, age 37, and Jay Andrew Olson, age 19, were arrested for Terroristic Threats. The remaining 3 adults and one juvenile will be charged by Summons and Complaint procedures.

"The investigation is on-going with assistance from the U.S. Forest Service, St. Louis County Sheriff's Office, and the Ely Police Department."

We talked with the two main law enforcement officials involved in the investigation and both assured us we would be notified when all of the information was released.

"We want you to know the whole story," was what the two men told us. Other than that, they zipped up and the rumor mill went into second gear.

Even the sheriff's office in Lake County was feeling the public pressure. Their website was changed 10 days later to read: "Update 8/20/2007: Barney Lakner and Jay Olson were released from custody pending charges from the Lake County Attorney's Office. This case is still under investigation and the complaints will be filed by the Lake County Attorney's Office."

We continued to contact the sheriff's department and the county attorney's office but there was no official information being released. No charges filed. No complaints made available to the public.

It was nine days after the first update from the sheriff's department that the following was listed: "Update 8/29/2007: Due to the high volume of calls and the nature of this case, please refer any questions regarding the prosecution of this case to Lake County Attorney Russ Conrow's Office."

So the sheriff's office was apparently tiring of phone calls and turned the PR portion over to the county attorney. We've come to know that phone number pretty well. And the response has been the same every time: nothing yet.

We believe that charges will be filed in this case and hope the delay will come to an end soon. If law enforcement has a case, those who have been accused have a right to know what charges they are facing. And for those affected in the alleged incidents, the waiting has had to be trying as well.

For those accused, especially the two men named by the sheriff's department, they have been judged in the public eye, largely on rumor since the alleged facts have yet to appear.

The court of law is where this case will be decided and we will report the charges, any response from the accused, and, eventually the final disposition. At this point, everything else is hearsay and opinion.

We await the Lake County attorney's list of charges as well as the reports made by law enforcement officials. As soon as we know, you'll know.

[threeball]

This debate is at such a level that its not productive or entertaining. There is no side that is all right or all wrong. I've lived in the terrible metro and in smaller towns and have learned that neither place has all good people, bad people, smart people or dumb people. As long as you are thinking that way you will be on the wrong track, in my opinion. Its also a counterproductive approach to this problem.

I sympathise with those who are against control of "their" local area for the benefit of others. I always keep in mind that only a few have paid the price so that the area can be enjoyed by many.

However, I can not understand the blind grouping of all outsiders and jealousy of financial differences. We all choose to live where we live. Some people live in areas that offer a better chance at larger financial rewards but pay dearly to enjoy, for brief periods of time, what the NE locals enjoy on a dialy basis. The flip side of the coin on the higher property values is that locals owned land that they paid relatively little for and cashed in on the outsiders' hard work. I'm not going to spend considerable energy fretting because "it is what it is."

There is absolutely no excuse for what happened in the shooting; attempting to excuse it, as caused by something else, is just not well thought out.

What happened in the shooting incident simply reinforces, for the metro snobbery, the belief that the rural folks need further control. Some of the broad brush sentiments in this forum will do the same.

[Carp-fisher]

Quote:

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Monday, September 10, 2007 Volume 18, Issue 35

Metro attitudes at the root of BWCAW shooting incident

Letter to the editor from Ross Petersen - Ely, Minn.

I found Richard Elliot’s not so subtle threats in his 8/25/07 letter to the editor to be about what I’d expect from our metro neighbors. Now instead of trying to tell us how and where we can recreate, how to log, how to mine, hunt, fish, camp, 4 wheel, snowmobile, drive, walk, etc. etc., Mr. Elliot is trying to tell us how our courts should rule.

Well, Mr. Elliot, if you and your children are afraid, I suggest that you limit your canoeing to Lake Minnetonka, and just ignore us. If you can’t come up here without trying to tell us what to do, please don’t come. After all, did you see any letters in the Mpls. Star Tribune from Rangers threatening not to shop at the Mall of America until you start inspecting your bridges better? How about the same consideration?

Why do you folks feel the need to try to control everything in NE Minnesota? If you and the Friends of the Boundary Waters and the Sierra Club, etc. all faded away, this area would be just as nice 20 years from now as it is now and was 20 years ago. In my opinion, your continual meddling in our affairs is the root cause for the recent shooting incident. We have a tremendous frustration up here for the constant meddling and stupid regulations that are continually forced on us from urban people who often have no idea what they are talking about and barely know this area. When you have an area that feels this angry and frustrated, it’s always the young males that lash out, often without considering the consequences. If you want to keep this from happening again, Mr. Elliot, maybe you and yours should take your moral and intellectual superiority and direct it toward fixing your bridges and your other problems and quit trying to control every aspect of our lives.

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Jiganator,

I share your distaste for big government policies that ultimately lead to mismanagement and more regulations. Thats why I'm a conservative. But on the otherhand (to modify a great Sandler movie quote):

[note from admin: please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

[Steve Foss]

And now that this has descended into personal attacks, I'm locking it.