Mountain Lion Sighting

[Lowe]

Three of them, actually, chasing a deer near Brookston. From what I heard, one had been sighted from time to time hanging around, but on Sunday three of them were seen chasing a deer across a small field. If it's a real sighting I would imagine it's a mother with two young ones from last year. With the number of confirmed sightings lately, this isn't as hard to swallow as it once was. And yes, according to what I heard they had long tails.

Anyone else have a lion story? About five or six years ago, early June, my wife and I were spending the night at our hunting shack. I got up about 3 A.M. to answer a call of nature, and when I went outside from I heard the most chilling, god-awful scream/roar coming from the other side of the river. All the hair on my head stood on end (the only other time this has happened to me was a very close encounter with a black bear ). The scream was unquestionably feline in nature and definitely wasn't a screech owl. I suppose it might have been a bobcat, but this SOB sounded HUGE, the kind of deep, thundering sound that can only come from a very big animal. It sounded similar to the roar of an African lion, with more of a screaming tail end to it. I won't ask anybody to believe me when I say it was a lion, but both my wife and I still agree that was all it could have been.

[Dr. Bob]

Here is a Lion story for ya. Written by our very own Stfcatfish.

http://timberjay.com/current.php?article=787

[This message has been edited by Dr. Bob (edited 03-18-2004).]

[redhooks]

While attending VCC in 95'I used to live out at the Garden Lake resort and one day while driving section 30 into town a large gray cat w/ a very long tail bounded across the road and into the woods. I pulled over and looked for tracks w/o seeing any. A week later I told a friend of mine who was doing wolf telemetry and he knew of 2 cougars in the Ely area. He figured they do quite well killing deer and have the ability to climb trees to get away from the wolves. Pretty cool to see animals tha are expanding their ranges! Maybe grizzly's and woodland caribou will be next!-LoL
redhooks

[Renneberg]

Some years caribou will winter in the Grand Marais area, but for what ever reason people shoot the caribou.

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"Study to be quiet"

[Jackpine Rob]

Found some VERY fresh tracks in the mud while partridge hunting up near Wood Lake (Fernberg Road) last fall. No question at all what I was looking at - it sure as heck wasn't bobcat or lynx! Tried to get a photo of the track with my kid holding his hand next to it, but they didn't turn out well.

[protrapper]

No doubt there is cougars in MN. There was that wild one living down in the Minnesota River Bottoms near Savage for awhile they finall shot it when it got bold. It came back ositive wild I believe. Pretty crazy I used to trap that area a few years back.

Lots of sightings up near Grand Marais area. I remeber when people thought we where crazy saying we where seeing lynx around. And now here they are every place it seems.

Renneberg, I think the caribou where near Portage. Cause I never heard anyone caught shooting them.

[Surface Tension]

Plenty of cougar sightings in the Twig area. Brother had one run across his forty.
A neighbor has 2 Roitweillers patrolling his land that do a good job of keeping the wolves away from his prize Pintos. Came a time when the team of Roitweillers wouldn't leave the porch and whined to get back in the house. Yep a cougar was in the area and the dogs didn't want anything to do with the big pussy cat. Next day one of the prize pintos was sporting neck bites and scratches on its back. Mee-ouch!!

On a side note I talked to 3 different folks this summer that spoted wolverines in the area. If you look at todays wolverine home range you'll see that its hundreds of miles into northern Canada eh.
No way they could be this far south. I guess no one believes you till they end up at the state capital?

[Steve Foss]

I've been going into the woods around Ely with white camo I used to use for predator hunting in North Dakota and blowing a wounded rabbitt call to try to get predators in close enough for pictures.

Last time I went out was right after I heard about the lion attack. No telling how idiotic a catfish might be. No luck yet. Yes, I go armed, just in case a critter comes in close thinking there's a dying rabbit and doesn't find out it's me until its 30 feet away and it may not want to switch gears.

Anyone know if wolves and cats eat catfish.

Also, a N.D. state trooper a couple years back caught a big cougar on video as it crossed Interstate 29 about 10 miles south of Grand Forks. That one made the local papers there.

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"Worry less, fish more."
Steve Foss
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by stfcatfish (edited 03-18-2004).]

[bwtrout]

humm...stfcatfish lurking in the woods with white camo, this pretty much disspells my possible ely yeti tale.

[Jackpine Rob]

So what are you going to do when you get a bunch of wolves sneaking in behind you, Mr. Catfish? I was trying to find myself a bobcat several years ago up near Lake One, and got a heck of a surprise when 5 wolves came in quiet at a dead run. Got them stopped at less than 20 feet with a coyote bark, while I was trying to decide if I should climb a tree, fire a warning round, or just keel over and become a wolf snack. I finally opened up my mouth - said "BANG! I FOOLED YOU SONS OF %$#@*'s!" and they tore on out of there.
In areas with critters larger than your basic Dakota coyote, I am a firm believer in taking along a partner. That extra set of eyes allows you to shag away unwanted visitors more effectively, before the situation spirals in a bad direction. My worst "soil your drawers" moment found a single wolf nearly stepping on me as he snuck around the tree I was leaning against, while watching the swamp below. We both jumped - and I think I actually got more height than he did. My partner was laughing - he watched the thing sneak up on me and decided to see how close it would get. I wasn't nearly as amused.

[scifisher]

We are not used to predators that attack humans in Minnesota. Most folks who go out in the woods here realy never think about it. In grizzly country its a different story...With this in mind, do you folks think its a good idea to go out armed with some sort of protection? How about in the BWCA? If you were guiding a trip, would you be obligated to carry a pistol or pepper spray or something? What would you carry for mountain lion protection?

scifisher

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Entropy makes life interesting.

[chunkytrout]

Bob, great stories!
BWTrout, catfish in his camo in the woods. Maybe we should start that Timberjay Centerfold. As lond as he's not modeling the tiger fur speedos!
Sci, although I don't currently carry weapons (20 guage during upland), I was treed in Glacier Park for nearly an hour by a large female griz. We stumbled upon her and her cubs on a switchback near Indian Head Pass. There was no warning and nothing we could have done to avoid it. Nothing got too hairy and noone was injured and I wouldn't have used a gun if I had one at the time. But that was one person's instance. Knowing there might be a big kitty kitty around when I'm alone wandering the woods makes me think about it sometimes though.
All in all, it's a good sign to me if you see one. Just leave em alone! Are they protected here?
ST, wolverines spook me more than cougars. Oh yeah, badgers too.

chunky

[This message has been edited by chunkytrout (edited 03-18-2004).]

[Guest]

On the way to LOTW last weekend, we had the chance to stop (Among many others) and watch a bald eagle feasting on a deer in the ditch! It was unreal to get within 10ft of it while it fed, and to get pictures was a bonus. Jackpine a coyote bark can stop a pack? I gotta go to bed I musta read something wrong.....

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en kala
(I fish)

[This message has been edited by frozenminnow (edited 03-18-2004).]

[This message has been edited by frozenminnow (edited 03-18-2004).]

[protrapper]

This winter I was trapping beaver and fisher way back in off a old logging rd. One night I was coming out at about 8 p.m. or so it was pitch black. I had my miners lamp on and I just happen to look up ahead and there was three big timbos trotting up the road right at me I wasn't to nervous as I had a side arm on me and they did finally veer off the rd. about 20 yards from me. I had similar encounters with wolves in this area in the past, howling and circling my brother and I once. This pack has been in this area since I was little.

One time we where sitting on the deck and a doe and fawn came bolting down our drive with a timbo right on there butts.

I would be very cautious of any wolves at night alone. I got a few other stories I could share if you want further proof.

[Jackpine Rob]

Frozen:
One of the coolest things about using various noises when calling is the reaction of the critters. Those wolves came in expecting to find a tussle and a free meal, and because I was camo'd and tucked into a deadfall, they found nothing. The bark made them stop and look for the intruder that they heard but couldn't see. The reason I used the bark was nothing more than one of those stupid things that cross your mind and you react without much thinking about it. I use that bark often while coyote hunting to stop them for a shot. In retrospect, it was a good choice (it definitely got their attention), but I sure won't claim credit for actually reasoning the thing out ahead of time.
About a month ago I was out West in the Dakotas chasing coyotes, and as the light was rapidly fading, I was trying desperately to draw a pack of 'yotes across a valley and into our field of fire. We had a pretty good conversation going, with yipping, barking, challenges, etc. and I threw caution to the wind and let fly with the most obnoxious and long-winded series of challenges and pup challenges I've ever used.
The pack started closing the distance, and I was tucked in, Steady Stix firmly stuck into the yucca in front of me, scope dialed in for the expected shot, and then I heard a noise behind me.
Not much of a noise, mind you, just a little rustle, then a growl, and I turned and found myself 6 paces from an extremely po'd male coyote. His ears were back, the fur straight up, the tail at attention, and I'm thinking "geez, I'm glad this is just a coyote". My pistol of course was safely in the holster, beneath the jacket. Never did get a shot. He realized I wasn't what he wanted and beat a quick retreat, barking the alarm to one and all. In that case, his bark ended up saving several others who were mere yards from entering my buddy's field of fire. My buddy comes over all ticked off, wondering why the heck I barked alarm, and I just sat there laughing and pointed my flashlight towards the tracks in the snow.
Point is, the predators we pretend to hunt do this stuff for a living, and we're pretty much amateurs. We sometimes think we've got this stuff figured out, and then get back-doored by the very critter we're after. If that had been a big cat behind me, I wouldn't have been laughing.

[Steve Foss]

The only movement you will see from me during the times I mentioned is a slow and endless swiveling of my head as I scan around me.

While I set up with an open field of view upwind, because predators often come straight at a call without regard to wind and can't smell me from that direction, almost half the time they'll circle around and check things out from downwind. Any predator that heads downwind, scents me and keeps coming obviously isn't worried that I'm human.

If you go to the T-jay Web site that Dr. Bob mentioned, you'll find not only that cougar story, but also a column in the archives from that same 3-13-04 paper, where I explain how I do this in a personal account titled "Lions and tigers and bears . . ."

Protrapper: No need for further proof. Wolf fanatics always trot out the old piece of crap about how there's no documented evidence that a healthy adult wolf has attacked a human in North America.

The Inuit and native American tribes have oral traditions that recount such things. Of course, oral tradition is not "documented," because it's not written down.

Wolves are making judgements all the time when they're in contact with people. Hard to say how any given wolf will go in any given situation. Like you, I think night is our most vulnerable time, particularly a winter night toward the tail end of a long and harsh cold snap. I expect people taste as good as any deer. Well, unless they're wearing fake-fur lined Speedos.

Rob: I never assume I have anything figured out and, in case I don't, Exedrin headache No. 357 and I are always alert in these situations.

Note: A wolf expert I know sez it's a simple matter to bring a marine horn in a can (the kind marine dealers sell for little money to put in your boat) along when you're in the woods. The expert uses this to put down captive wolves who get a little too aggressive with each other, and says one blast puts them right on the ground. Cats of all species are especially put off by loud noises, so it should work at least as well on them. Gotta keep it warm, though, as they're known to freeze up in really cold weather. Wouldn't that suck, eh?

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"Worry less, fish more."
Steve Foss
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by stfcatfish (edited 03-18-2004).]

[tie flyer]

Good stories.

Mine's not as dramatic. About eight years ago a buddy and I were driving back from Fargo in his very late model tan Mercury Cougar when a large cat bounded across the road in front of us. We were near DL and in a road-trance while it bounded about three times from ditch to ditch and out of sight. It's pretty amazing when the realization strikes that you've just seen one.

[bmc]

A call came into my work this past fall about a family video taping a mountain lion near here. It was actually just south of Deer River and north of Big White Oak lake. Middle of the day, out walking in a tilled up field, right towards some houses! I saw the video tape and no doubt about it, mountain lion. With all the deer in this area, it's no surprise.

Brian

[scifisher]

Stcatfish

If you would share a few of the native stories about wolf attacks, I would appreciate it. Most of the stories I have heard anthropomorphized the wolf into a spirit/human/animal and then it attacked a human. In the wild, my encounters with wolves have always been fleeting. They wanted nothing to do with me. In no way am I saying that wolves are not dangerous to humans, though. If I was carrying a load of dead animals (a trapper) or stuffed my pack (a hunter) with meat, it might have been a different story.

As far as lion attacks go, you won't see the lion that attacks you. They'll lie and wait until you pass. Sometimes from a perch on a tree or from a tucked and wooded corner. When they hit, the come in paws first and smack, right in the back. The initial attack is meant to snap their prey's spine so their jaws can fishing the job. Of course, if they hit and no bones break, they are perfectly capable of raking with all four paws, ripping their prey to shreads.

Out west, there have many documented cases of lion attacks. Adult male humans have been injured or killed, but the people who are most at risk are children. It takes a big cat to hit a male human and actually take the person down. Their initial spring is rarely strong enough to snap the spine so the fight following is usually hot. Sometimes hot enough to drive the cat away. Sometimes not. Children on the other hand, if they get hit, bang, they are done. The cat will drag them into the woods so quickly, the victims parents will have no idea what happened. Sometimes the kid just ran a head to check out a bend in a particular hiking trail. Sometimes they fell behind. In many cases, the parents attempt to catch up and the kid is gone. Sometimes they arrive to see the cat dragging their kill into the woods. In which case, sometimes the parents can drive the cat off and sometimes they have a fight on their hands.

I have a friend who lives in Boulder, CO. She is a sandle wearing granola muncher back to the earth type of person. She used to believe in rewilding and predator restoration, but recently (in the last few years), there has been a rash of attacks on adults and children. Now, I think, she has a more complete view of the natural world. Predators can be dangerous to humans. Protecting wilderness and keeping humans from habitating an area allows predators to survive and maybe even thrive. They won't stay in their wilderness though. They follow the food. This is something that every Minnesotan needs to consider, I think. The woods can be a dangerous place...

So, how do you defend yourself? In the case of a lion attack, a handgun is useless if you are the one on the ground. You'll never see the lion coming and you'll never be able to get it out in time while the animal is raking and biting you. A gun would be handy for your partner though...I would say that a good straight hafted knife would be a good option. Strap it on the outside of your clothing so if you get hit, you can whip it out and slash away. If you happen to stick the cat enough, it might be deterrence enough to drive it away. They don't want to get injured anymore then you do, in fact a predator knows that if it gets hurt, it probably is going to die. Hopefully the knife could give you the advantage you would need to survive, or until your buddy has time to draw and open fire. Also, if cats are coming back to this state, DO NOT let your children run free in the woods. Perhaps this is going to become a new (or old come around again) fact of life in MN.

scifisher

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Entropy makes life interesting.

[Xplorer]

There were several reports of sightings just west of Esko last year, between town and the St Louis river. Rumor had it that one person videotaped the cat in their back yard one day.
With the available prey in the state, i have little doubt about thier existence, but overall numbers must be pretty low given their average size home range.
Xplorer

[Lowe]

There's no doubt in my mind that it is simply a matter of time before a human is attacked by a wolf or pack of wolves.

First time I had a close encounter with a wolf I was about 14 or 15 years old, trying out my new Honda Fat Cat trail bike. It was the spring of the year and calving time at my folk's ranch. I came around a hill on the back side of a field and there's a big white wolf with silver guard hairs (by far the most beautiful animal I've ever seen in the wild) muzzle deep in a stillborn calf (that wasn't so pretty). I was about fifteen yards away from it. More suprised than scared at this point, I twist the throttle not realizing:

1.) I've stopped in some soft mud, and
2.)I'm still in fifth gear.

Put put engine stalls and there we are.

By now the wolf is looking at me hard. I've surprised quite a few animals in the wild and their first reaction has always been fright. Not this guy. After about two hours (actual elapsed time maybe 5 seconds) it turned and walked leisurely back into the woods. At the edge of the field it stopped and looked at me again, then finally trotted off. It wasn't even concerned, much less frightened. We haven't trapped or shot wolves in 30-40 years and they have no reason to be scared of us anymore. Having respect and fear for humans was part of the natural selection process big predators had to go through to survive, but the new generations don't need to have that fear to survive. In many cases it actually hinders their ability to hunt, especially near sheep and cattle ranches.

Whew, long post, but a couple more things.

There was a wolverine shot and killed west of Brookston in the early seventies by a deer hunter, after the wolverine decided the buck the hunter had wounded was his and got nasty about it. Confiscated by the DNR, don't know what happened to it now.

Sci, not all cats that attack humans use their traditional hunting methods to do so. There's still some residual fear in them, I think, so they approach and get a reaction to see if we're lunch or something to avoid. For both the cautious cats and wolves a handgun is probably your best bet. Fighting a lion with my Buck knife isn't something I'd want to try. Maybe the best protection is a dog, even if it just tucks its tail between its legs and runs away at least you know something's not right.

[tie flyer]

What does a frightened wolf look like?

I certainly have less experience with animal behavior than many here, but I have had a few encounters of the four-legged kind. The first timber wolf I ever saw came walking in toward my bear stand and stopped about forty yards away. He didn?t come through the thicket, nor did he walk with stealth. He stood there and stared up at me with piercing eyes as I admired his long legs and stately appearance. After a few moments of staring he slowly commenced to walk away.

My second wolf sighting was in the exact same place, five minutes later. In turn, a third wolf followed and exchanged a cold glare with me.

Were these wolves unafraid? Since it was the first night of the season, chances are the canines had grown accustomed to nosing scraps from under my logs or cleaning up after the bear. My scent didn?t deter them because it was already associated with the free meals they had received in the past. When they saw me, the gig was up. Since they weren?t immediately threatened, they sauntered off without urgency.

What I?m reading here is that the flight reaction is the only one associated with fear or perceived danger. That?s incomplete. The innate reaction to danger for most carnivores (even us bipeds) is a fight or flight response, not just flight.

If an animal finds itself face-to-face with danger it will exhibit one (or both) of these behaviors. Add a little more distance into the equation and the reaction is less exaggerated; the animal walks away cautiously and keeps an eye on the potential attacker. This, I believe, is what I witnessed in my bear stand and what other accounts have described as well.

Further, I know sci will agree that you can?t take an inherent trait out of a breed in 30 to 40 years. That?s like saying my lab hates water because her dad was a seeing-eye dog.

Just trying to dispel some of the inaccuracies, not saying an attack won?t occur. It?s already been said, there?s no telling what a wild animal will do. I?ve had to bump a bear cub out of my tree stand while the mama sow sat below. No problem. Next time??

Chances are you?ll fall out of your deer stand or get lost in the woods before a wolf will attack you. my$.02

[deadeye]

I have a lion story,
Nothing that happened to me but interesting still. I guess in late febuary(last month this year) Out be shagawa river there was a horse that got maulled pretty bad by a cougar. I heard that from my biology teacher at vcc (he is freinds with the guy that had his horse ripped up.) I have also heard from many people that they have seen one over by samz place. (not a good idea to go on a drunken walkabout there) But anyway it makes you think to be a little more careful.
><>deadeye

[protrapper]

My neighbor's big lab was killed by a wolf a couple years back. And the same wolf killed a steer of one of the cattle guys down the road.This same wolf was in our neighbors drive one time and she chased up to the county road, and every time she turned her back on it would trot back behind her just like a domestic dog when you chase it away.Well anyway the wolf wound up dead along the road a few months later. Hit by a car?? Who knows..

[Lowe]

tie flyer, it's not an inherent trait. It (i.e. fear) is a learned behavior. Animal behavior can be passed through generations of offspring in much the same manner as genetic-based traits are passed along, but it's a completely different mechanism. Behavioral tendencies bloom and fade much more quickly than physical characteristics do. 30-40 years is more than enough time for wolves to begin to understand we are not much of a threat anymore.

A wolf isn't that different than coyote in many regards, and I've seen plenty of scared coyotes in my day. Not so with the woofies.

[scifisher]

Lowe

Assuming a lion uses its traditional hunting behavior, it is safe to assume that you will not see it before you get it. With that in mind, if you survive the initial strike, you can expect to be lying face down in the mud with a large cat attempting to bite at the back of your neck. A pistol isn't going to be much help to you unless your buddy has it. Rather then trying to defend myself with my bear hands, I would want something I could cause a lot of damage in a quick and easy manner with. An easily accessible knife and a few stabs just might convince the cat that you are not easy prey.

I'm not saying that if a cat suddenly plopped down in front of me, I would draw steel and shout "en guarde" at it! In fact, that picture has got me chuckling because I'm sure there is some idiot out there pondering such an encounter and wondering if they could be successful. Those dudes play way too much Dungeons and Dragons.

scifisher

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Entropy makes life interesting.

[Lowe]

sci, how about a whip and a chair?

I'm in agreement with ya about basically being screwed if they use their "ambush" technique. It's just that most of the lion attacks I've heard about people do see the lion first. Maybe you only hear about those ones because the other attacks don't leave a witness. Who knows? I still think a dog and its nose would be your best ally.

[Harmonica Bear]

LOL! - that was a good one, a whip and a chair!

I would think maybe I should start carrying a plastic cat toy with a bell in it. That way if I get attacked I could just roll it in the woods and the cat would go chase it! Much more fun to play with then a dumb old stinky human

Sorry about that guys, that just cracked me up.

It's a good discussion that I've enjoyed following. Very interesting.

[This message has been edited by Harmonica Bear (edited 03-19-2004).]

[Ole1855]

This isn't as interesting as the stories of wild encounters, but it will make you think.

I bow hunt in WI and down the road at the next farm there is a guy that has many caged animals; African Lions, Tiger, Panther, Black Bear etc.... One nite I decided to sit on the stand that's only 200-300 yards through the woods to this guy's house. Well about 1/2 hour before sunset, the big male lion let's out an unbelievable roar, it absolutely scared the "you-know-what" out of me. It actually sounded as if it was 20 yards away, and to top it all off, the guy had his big male black bear get out of it's cage 4 days prior to that happening. Can you say.... here kitty kitty, here kitty kitty!!!

Ole

[Renneberg]

There was a wolverine seen running thought a truck stop in Zumbrota, MN last month. Zumbrota is located north of Rochester.

The DNR claim it was a pet turned loose.

I don't think it was a pet because wolverines are said to be one of the smelliest animals alive. Who would want that as a pet?

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"Study to be quiet"