Buck Tag Applications??

[xedge2002]

Hey I was just wondering what everybody else thinks of the idea of MN going to a system where hunters have to apply for Buck tags instead of Anterless tags?

I know SD and ND both do that now and I have friends that are originally from either state and the bucks they see and shoot always seem to be bigger than the average buck I see around here.

[harvey lee]

I personally have not deer hunted in MN. for approx 12 years.I would love to see the DNR put a size restriction and quota on buck tags.I dont believe they will ever do this as it might be to big of a loss of revenue.

[camdu7]

I guess I wouldn't support a limit on buck tags in MN. It may work in SD and ND, but MN has about three times the deer of SD or ND and many more hunters. If having a better buck to doe ratio is the goal, I would favor a later firearms season (except in NE MN), no party hunting for bucks, and maybe a point restriction, before a reduction of buck tags.

[Stratosman]

I might be for some kind of restriction. I think a later season coupled with a point restriction would definately help. I wouldn't even be against a buck lottery system. There are plenty of does to shoot for your meat, and we all know that in most cases doe reduction helps in growing more mature bucks for various reasons. However, this might not work for every area or zone, this would have to taken on a case by case basis and dependant on area deer population and other factors including hunter pressure.

There would be some opposition to this no doubt, and for good reason. The hunters who couldn't care less about anter size and hunt to put meat on the table would have a hard time swallowing this for sure. Children and senior citizens and special needs hunters might be exempt from such regulations, this as well would have to be examined.

It might have to begin with hunter and landowner education in herd management. But again, no farmers I know and alot of the hunters could give a rat's arse about this. Making it hard to believe any regulation would be passed governing our choices in the field. And who know's, maybe it's for the best to leave it alone? I don't think any of us despite our regard or disregard for antler size want more government types telling us what we can and can't do on our own land.

If it sound like I may be a bit wishy washy on this subject, it's because I am. I have gone back and forth on the matter of more restrictions and am obviously still in the middle.

[Log Hopper]

We don't need any more restrictions. If someone wants to go trophy hunting, then go trophy hunting. Don't try to force everyone else in the state to do the same.

[grizzald]

Stratosman, I disagree this quote of yours-- "It might have to begin with hunter and landowner education in herd management. But again, no farmers I know and alot of the hunters could give a rat's arse about this."

Lets see here now, how often do you make it out into the county to see how farmers DO take care of the deer heard. I beleive it's the farmer who plants food plots, I believe it's the farmer who feeds the majority of the deer during the summer/fall while they eat on his crops, I beleive it's the farmer who puts out a few hay bales during the winter for deer to eat on, I beleieve it's the farmer who leaves the spilt grain on the ground for the wildlife to eat. Also, I know a couple different groups of farmers that have went out this winter and just absolutely pounded on the coyotes in the area. Hmm, seems like the farmer may just care about the deer heard after all, at least in my area of the state they do. A lot of "behind the scene" things that guys like yourself dont see aparently.

As far as the buck lottery goes which is the main topic here, I feel that it would have it's pros and cons. Maybe no party hunting should be considered, or take a look at the areas of the state where the deer numbers are low and limit it to a one day season, cut the number of licenses in certain areas back, have to apply for both doe and buck tags. I enjoy deer hunting but if I couldnt hunt for a year or two I probably wouldnt lose any sleep over it. Just my two cents.

[Stratosman]

Lets see here now, how often do you make it out into the county to see how farmers DO take care of the deer heard. I beleive it's the farmer who plants food plots, I believe it's the farmer who feeds the majority of the deer during the summer/fall while they eat on his crops, I beleive it's the farmer who puts out a few hay bales during the winter for deer to eat on, I beleieve it's the farmer who leaves the spilt grain on the ground for the wildlife to eat. Also, I know a couple different groups of farmers that have went out this winter and just absolutely pounded on the coyotes in the area. Hmm, seems like the farmer may just care about the deer heard after all, at least in my area of the state they do. A lot of "behind the scene" things that guys like yourself dont see aparently.

That's funny stuff. That sounds like a question so I'll do my best to answer it.

#1. I grew up in the country, both grandparents are farmers, two uncles are farmers. My wives grandfather was a farmer, and one of her uncles is a farmer. I worked on my grandfathers farm for 6 years starting at age 13, I know a bit about farming.

#2. "It's the farmers who plant food plots." If you mean cash crops which I think you do you are off base a tad with that statement. Like I said, no farmer I know plants corn and soybeans for deer. And as far as spilled grain on the ground... that one made me laugh out lound by the way, imagining old farmer Joe out on his hands and knees with a bucket sorting through corn rubble picking up the shelled pieces of corn.

#3. I'll give you the coyote thing. We aren't overrun with them yet.

#4. Behind the scenes things that guys like me don't see.. Like what? The things you stated above? Normal farming practices? And guys like me, I'd like to know what that means I guess.

The fact is remains the same, as in my original post. No farmers I KNOW do anything about herd management. If tossing a couple bales of hay counts as herd management then I am wrong. The ones I know would rather feed their hay to their livestock. With that being said, I know that there ARE farmers out there that do care about the deer, planting actual food plots to sustain throughout the winter months and managing through selective harvest, just not any I know. A few of the farmers around here have pulled out windrows and till basically from ditch to ditch, I hate to see it, but why would they care? If I were a landowner then I would practice better land management myself, but that is not the case.

[WigglinMyWorm]

Where I hunt there is very little farming and there are more doe's than a guy ever could handle.....every year the big bucks are taken and you can just see the quality of buck getting less and less...At our hunting camp we take either a true trophy or a doe.....smaller bucks are left alone....problem is they wander to the neighbors and get shot too heck......I am definatly for a buck lottery as long as that tag can be party hunted so if a true trophy is seen it can be taken.....If something isn't done soon in my area there will be nothing but spike bucks running around and some idiot will shoot them too.

[tripper]

Just go hunt and be glad you can still do it.

[tealitup]

However, if you look at people like me... We own land about 50 miles northwest of two harbors. There is a small heard of deer. In fact, with a group of 8 hunters we only see 1 or 2 deer in a four or five day period. These deer are mostly does, but we are in a lottery system (we would not shoot a doe there because we need more deer).

However, if there was an open wolf season we would clean up, thus increasing the deer and moose herd.

[WigglinMyWorm]

Don't get me started on the wolves.......ran into a pack of 4 this winter on the snow machine and they were not to afraid of me or my sled. Have seen them during grouse season too....I think there are alot more than dnr says.

[grizzald]

Statosman,

1. Theres a difference of growing up in the country like you did, or presently living in the country like my self. I see what goes on with the deer around here day in and day out. As a matter of fact, theres an old "farmer Joe" like you put it, that lives right down the road from me that plants a corn plot each year, right along the river bottom so the deer have easy access to food while there hearded up down there during winter. Now dont get me wrong, there arent many farmers that do this, but in your first staement your running down each farmer in this state for not planting plots.

2. As far as you laughing about a farmer out picking up spilt grain, laugh if you want to, but theres a pride issue here. Why not shovel up spilt grain, it's worth money. He spent tons of money harvesting, not to mention spraying, cultivating, tilling etc.

3.Coyotes are an issue, I know for a fact there have been over 200 shot in a 15 mile radius of Appleton. And you say there isn't a problem with them, that made me laugh me out loud. The afternoon before the first weekend of firearms, I saw two pups chasing a very nice buck, if there chasing him around, what are they doing to the fawns that we have left.

[BendnSend]

Well since everyone else seems to throw there 2cents into this discussion, I'll let ya know what I feel and witness around my home area here! There in no way in hell is there any farmers in a 20 mile radius of were I live that set aside anything for deer or wildlife for that matter!! The only cover or food that is placed is put there by hunters not no (Contact US Regarding This Word) farmer. The have one thing and one thing only on there mind and that to me appears to tile or till everything from the road to ditches in the middle of the sections that intersect them. So if any of you guys think that farmers in this area are doing anything for the wildlife that they rant and rave about destroying there hard worked crops, ur wrong! But hey like i stated earlier this may only be in my neck of the woods! Possibly its different were you live, but thats the facts around here jack! I dont know to what effect coyotes play a role in the whole system around here, but I can tell you from hundreds of miles logged this winter both from the truck and on foot, but there aint squat for dogs to be hurtin our deer herd around here, but hey whats there to hurt, not like there even is a fair amount of deer to be had by them anyways.

[Mark Christianson]

To answer the original post directly,,,,,,

No buck tag applications. Put an antler restriction on young bucks and keep them over the counter.

[Stratosman]

Grizz,

You need to read the posts better before responding..I never ran down Every farmer in the state did I? I posted that no farmers I KNOW did this. This is not a lie or even and exageration, it's the truth. That's great that you know someone who does. I give him great credit. I wish more would do the same. Trust me I know a lot of farmers, I still live within 5 miles of where I grew up and know the ins and outs. But it is different here than where you live and in other parts of the state. I only dissagreed with you when you said that farmers plant crops for food plots, crops and food plots are two different things. Sure deer count on the crops planted each spring to provide them nourishment and it's not coincidence that most of the largest deer taken each year come from farm country. But to say that the crops are planted FOR the deer and calling them food plots is a bit far fetched. The way the economy is for farming right know I don't blame any of them for their farming practices, I know that alot of them have a hard enough time making their farms profitable and the last thing they need to worry about is feeding the deer. Are you a farmer or do you just live in Gods country?

If you re-read my post you will notice that I agreed with you on the coyote issue, I just stated that they aren't such a problem where I live that they effect the deer herd to that large of a degree. I say kill them all, they destroy not only deer but pheasant and other game populations. Kudos to those guys.

If memory serves me right you and I have had more than one go-round in regards to deer and deer hunting issues. Neither one of us can pretend to know what the other deals with and I appreciate your comments and concerns and hope that anything said between us isn't taken too seriously. We all can't agree on everything, besides, that would be too (Contact US Regarding This Word) boring anyway.

[ortonville]

grizz, iam with you on this one.i feel the same why he does.

[grizzald]

Stratosman

Well me and Ortonville are about 25 miles apart and we feel the same way on this subject. Stratosman, we've had our own opinions over the last few months, but we are both obviously avid hunters and we both care about our wildlife. Maybe the DNR needs to step in a little more and actually start looking at the real problems that affect quality deer mangement. O and by the way, about the God's Country question you asked about, my dad farmed for 23 years, I helped and farmed with him for 18 years, yeah I was 5 when I first started helping out, and I was that " Farmer Joe" who you put down earlier in this topic about being down on his hands and knees picking up spilt grain in the fields and such. Why should the farmer put out food plots if guys like you mock him!! Shoot, I'm only 21 years old, what good is this arguing actually gonna do, seriously, what good is my opinion, atleast there is one guy in here that agrees with me.... I know I am in Gods country...a lot better than being in a concrete jungle.....

[BLACKJACK]

As far as a buck tag goes, I'm against it. I started hunting when doe tags were treasured, that if you had four guys and only one doe tag, it got to be a long season. As far as I'm concerned, deer hunting is as good right now as I've ever seen it in my 28 years of deer hunting. You can shoot an early archery doe for the freezer, I can shoot another one slug hunting, and somewhere along the line I can shoot a buck, hopefully a big one. If I really want a big buck, I know that I can't shoot the first fork that comes along, I need to wait for Mr. Big to come along. I need to HUNT for him. Any of the restrictions that people want to put on deer hunting is just a thinly veiled attempt by some 'hunters?' to get the DNR to run more big bucks by their treestand rather than the hunter having to go out and HUNT for a big buck. Note I didn't say trophy because in my mind every deer you shoot is a trophy. As far as big bucks go, they're out there. Look at the outdoor publications, sport shops, goto to the Deer Classic, there are big bucks in this state, get off your arse and go HUNT them, don't expect the DNR to run one by your tree!!!

[BigTen]

Don't worry griz, there are a lot more people that agree with you. No faster way to tick farmers off than give an impression of a lack of appreciation for their work. I'll see you Saturday night................

[Stratosman]

Don't worry I don't mock farmers, never have and never will. Don't misinterpret my posts as putting down farmers, that isn't how I wanted it to come across. I give them more respect than anyone else for the hard work they do. I am just stating what I have experienced around here.

As far as your opinion not mattering... that is untrue, I remember from previous conversations that your deer herd is suffering and barely existant right? What is causing this in your opinion, coyotes, over harvest, I know you have had some rough winters in the past.. Have you ever tried talking to game officials on a local level, maybe even at the state level.. your voice is louder that you think, get some petitions from friends and neighbors. Maybe you could get someone to listen to you. Maybe a special management plan for western MN would help, heck I don't know. We hunters need to stick together, we have more important battles to fight with all the anti's and gun haters in the world. It's obvious that you care about your deer or you wouldn't be on here in the first place. It's kinda funny how much geographic location changes peoples opinions on subjects, you and I see some things differently and that's okay, matter of fact that's good. I have no problem with you dissagreeing with me. Feel free to do it anytime man .

[gorrilla]

easy fellas....

lets talk hunting and quit puffing our chests out...

[luckey]

I have one major objection to a buck tag draw. A number of landowners I hunt with currently harvest does and big bucks. Big bucks is loosly defined as a nice 8pt or better. Because of this, a guy may get a crack at a nice buck every 2-3 years. Now it would really frost my () if I didn't see a big one for 2-3 years and then when I did see one, I couldn't shoot it becaues I didn't draw a buck tag that year. For me (and others in this situation) it would become a lot harder to let the small buck go when you have a tag, knowing you my not have a tag the next year. Either way I will still be out there hunting. Due to all the current options (bow,gun,muzzle,managment tags,party hunting etc) I just like it the way it is now. The current options give any landower great flexibility in managing the deer herd.

[ortonville]

why does everyone want horns do they taste good? why not shoot a doe? i think some thing has to be done to the why the dnr manages the deer herd. in bigstine county as soon as it grows horns it is dead. just because it has horns does it make a better trophey? we feed the deer all winter on the farm. and yes we plant food plots and leave them just for the wildlife. so what do you think the deer herd would be like if there was no stupid farmers? how many of you city hunters come out and support the bigstone county pheasant forever? not many i can name just about everyone there.and dont say you belong to another chapter because the money earned in the county stays in the county.i dont feel it is ok to come and shoot our pheasants and deer and not give anything back. and i dont mean it the way as not give anything back because as sportsman we all give back but how many of you go to the area you hunt in the off season?and shoot the coyotes and wild cats. and just plain feed the deer and pheasants. not many. and everybody wonders why farmer joe wont let them hunt.i bet grizz can tell you the same thing for his area

[Mark Christianson]

This topic is going no where.

[Stratosman]

Uh, okay.

I guess it's time to get back to the original subject of this thread. Anyone else have any usefull input they would like to add? It is interesting to see how others feel about this subject as obviuosly there are people on both ends of the spectrum, and that is why a statewide mandate would never work.

[tjm]

I'll agree 100% with biglakebasses 1st post.I'll add that anyone under 18 and over 55 could shoot any deer.

Would also like to say to a few i know who put there 2cents in.

If your wanting big bucks look around another area

Invest in trail cams

Put more time in

Pass on that smaller buck the last day let him grow

I'll say this,trail cams speak for themselves.Just because you dont see big bucks in your area dont mean nothing.You think they get big in Minnesota for being dumb

Have seen plenty big bucks on cams i never see during hunting hours.Heck i know for a fact 2 bucks this year were never even seen but after dark.Farmers were suprised when i showed the pics from trail cams.

More big bucks around then 1 thinks do a little more home work.How do you think more and more record class bucks are being taken every year.

Locate a big buck set trail cams out before season get his pattern down.The days you can drive that extra hour to go hunt him on the right condition.If i know theres a big buck some place i can hunt 100 miles from here on a day i can go c-ya later

[shae1986]

Based on a survey of 1,000 deer hunters, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) will not pursue regulations that would restrict the harvest of bucks in four west-central counties.

Nearly 60 percent of deer hunters who responded opposed regulations aimed at increasing the number of mature bucks by restricting the harvest of bucks with fewer than four antler points on one side.

"Given that the regulation would be largely social in nature, it would be difficult to pursue without majority support from deer hunters," said Lou Cornicelli, DNR big game program coordinator. "We will continue to look at different ways of managing deer populations that incorporate biological and social aspects of deer management."

Hunters returned about 77 percent of the surveys, which were mailed to a random sample of hunters in Lac Qui Parle, Yellow Medicine, Lyon and Lincoln counties. The University of Minnesota coordinated the survey.

Mike DonCarlos, DNR wildlife programs manager, said the high rate of return for the survey indicates that deer hunting and regulation changes are very important to hunters.

"Because deer hunters care deeply about their sport, they're more likely to respond to surveys," he said. "In turn the surveys provide an accurate reflection of opinions and are generally well accepted by the hunting public."

Just thought i would share this with all of you because some of my friends at the University were involved with this.

Andrew Shae

[BLACKJACK]

Can you post the actual questions that were asked?

[MN Mike]

I've been waiting for the results, where did you find them? I looked on the DNR's site last week but didn't see anything.

I got the survey back in Nov. - Dec. sometime. It was called: 2005 DEER HUNTER SATISFACTION AND PREFERENCES FOR REGULATION CHANGES IN MINNESOTA

1. Limiting the number of Buck tags for the season.

2. Point restrictions.

3. Moving the Firearms season out of the rut.

4. The famous ‘ Earn a Buck ‘ scenario.

They also discussed party hunting some, to the effect of not being able to cross tag deer or tag anyone else’s deer, you could still hunt as a party just shoot your own deer.

They also had a few different scenarios for each situation. I've still got one of the booklets, I'll see if I can get it scanned in if someone wants to look at the questions asked.

Mike

[luckey]

MN Mike

"They also discussed party hunting some, to the effect of not being able to cross tag deer or tag anyone else’s deer, you could still hunt as a party just shoot your own deer."

I guess in that case everyone hunting at the same time in Minnesota would be party hunting. lol