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Fishing


halad

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Where did the Band get the money for restocking? Was it casino money or BIA money. My question is if BIA money who funds the BIA? Taxpayer money?

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How do you guys know it was your tax money and not mine our any other persons that funded the stocking program.If any one could specificly trace there tax dollars out to what the goverment did with it What in the h#ll they doing waisting there time fishing for they should use there talents elsewhere like solving the deficit or something.

I think it was stated earlier but i will bring it up again. What happened to all the crappie in the lake? The indians didnt net them.Must have been over harvest by who hmm who could we blame for this.Maybe we should rethink limits too while were at it they were made before all this technology right.

Plus red is just 1 lake theres another 9,999 other lakes to fish in this state.

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Where did the Band get the money for restocking? Was it casino money or BIA money. My question is if BIA money who funds the BIA? Taxpayer money?


Quote:

The band, through the federal BIA, would pay $40,000 of the $68,000 annual cost of the stocking program;


I don't know, nor do I particularly care where ANY of the money actually comes from. Do you realize how SMALL that number is relatively speaking? Congress probably spends more than that everyday eating lunch on us. laugh.gif

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I really like your position on this...

If you want more fish , just go to the grocery store and buy some.

Isn't that the way to live...

If you can't catch them go buy them, it's your fault you couldn't feed your family, only yours...Ha-Ha!

Don't double dip, take the loss and fish harder next time...

Live long and prosper...

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I was told by one of our respected leaders, that Vermillion was once stocked with Red Lake "Wally-gators" as I call them, we got a good thing going here, lets enjoy "the present"

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If my memory serves me right one of the reasons that Vermillion was picked to get the eggs/fry from was of the close genetic match because Vermillion recieved heavy stocking from URL when the Hatchery was running at the mouth of the Tamarac.

As far as the cost if we had paid in at the same rate as the allowable catch we paid about $8,000 to much. What is $8,000 in todays world? Maybe about 3 inches of a metro area interstate? The first meeting we had with the DNR we were told that there was a very good chance that the Red Lakes would NEVER come back. They used a lake up in Canada as an example that was over fished and never was able to get the walleye population back. Here we got the lake back healthy again and we are complaining about spending $8,000 too much. Everyday out there I see individuals with $55,000 trucks pulling $15,000 fishhouses and we are really going to complain about $8,000 spent collectively? Gee, you guys sound like my banker. grin.gifgrin.gif

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Any tax money paid to something is yours,mine and everyone else's. Unfortunetly in this case we are not getting all of OUR (tax payers) moneys worth. If the res is a seperate nation then why does mn tax money go to them to pay for education, etc? Isn't each Res it's own nation. shouldn't they have thier own tax system to support themselves?

I think the state should build state run casino's and use the profits to benefit the state, like the fisheries program that stocks lakes that taxpayers are allowed to use. I know that will never happen though because then the tribes wouldn't have a monopoly on casino's right! Why is ok for them to have a monopoly on the casino's, was that in the treaty? [Please read forum policy]

By the way I normally hate posts like these because I normally just read the posts about actually fishing not other garbage, but when I and everyone else is paying for something and we are not getting all of our money's out of it, that really burns me.

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It doesn't matter to me where the money came from to re-stock the lake - the main thing is that it got restocked. Besides, the amount that was spent on restocking isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the income that was generated in the past few years from the crappie fishing and the future income that will be generated from the walleye fishing. It's a miniscule figure, irrelevent...water under the bridge - gone...

Why beat a dead horse to death??? This is just a waste of time - much better to focus on what to do with the lake in the future..

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Some of you are arguing about $60,000 dollars to re-stock the biggest dang non-great lakes freshwater fishery in pretty much the whole country?

That's the price of a well equipped Hummer. I think about 5 of us would have gotten together, took out a loan and paid for it ourselves.

Craig

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That's the price of a well equipped Hummer. I think about 5 of us would have gotten together, took out a loan and paid for it ourselves.

Craig


Now that I can verify! grin.gif One guy with some equity in his home could do it.

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Blackmax

Never brought the race issue up and also i agree with some of your gripes.Just do agree with your solutions for them.

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The tax issue is really beating a dead horse...

1st off the money came from the BIA... federal money not state. Believe me, you'll get your fair share just like I will, probably 1 thousandth of one cent that was mine out of the federal coffers... We've already gotten a lot of enjoyment out of our investment with the catch and releasing of the walleyes, probably more bang for the buck than the majority of the Band has enjoyed. There is a value in that as it has helped the local economy.

Second you think taxes are always fair and you get whatyou pay for? How about the $13,000 toilet seats and the $6,000 hammers that our illustrious legislators appropriated...

How about the roads you pay for that you never drive on...

The Vikings stadium we are sure to pay for, I may never use that, but I'm sure I'll be paying for it. Along with the twins, gophers, wild and wolves...

How about many of my friends that pay school taxes on their property but will probably never even have a child...

Time to get over it! We did get our monies worth... and we will get our monies worth. Let the future play out, why condemn someone for past aggressions? It is possible that all things will work out perfect. Remember their can really be no one held solely responsible for the past collapse and in the end they brought this lake back for a lot less than anyone thought possible. If things fall apart and go to heII, then get back on here and scream at the top of your lungs "I told you so!". But until then, let's be happy the lake is where it is at and ready for all to enjoy!

Good Luck!

Ken

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Labs

I am not trying to argue with you or anyone else but you said"why condem someone for past aggressions". That is my point exactly. Why are the tribes given special permission to hunt and fish on thier private land closed to the rest of us, but they are free to come on to our land any time they want.

Why not just treat everyone equal and quit seperating people out into certain groups. Like I have said before, every group in this country has been put down or wronged at one time or another. I am of part irish backround, should I get special permission to speed or get federal grants etc. because some of my ancestors were held down when they first came to this country? Maybe I should apply to have winnie closed off to everyone but my family because my family tree wasn't perfect. I could try but we all know the outcome of that.

And as far as tax money being pumped here and there with no cares by most of you is shocking... Is money wasted on many things..YES, but that doesn't make it right or even less wrong.. And NO I am not saying it was a waste of money restocking red, I just think if we only get to fish 22% of the whole lake, that's all we should have paid for.

The nets issue is a big one also. How is it we have to throw a 18in eye back because its a good spawner for the biomass but the tribes are just going to set out nets and whatever lands in them goes to shore. I dont think they have the technology to defer any 18in and over eyes not to get in the gill nets, so how is that helping out the spawning biomass of the lake???

I saw an earlier post saying the tribes own 2/3 of the lake and they are only taking 2/3 of the allowable fish so whats the prob. How did you get those numbers? We get 108,000lbs and the tribes are taking 590,000lbs for a total of 698,000lbs. Well by my math thats 84.5% for the tribes and 15.5% for the fishermen. This doesn't even take into effect the mortality rate the dnr will subtract from our weight. Us fishermen will likely end up with 13-14%tops for harvest.

Sorry about the ranting.

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Black max

I dont think the irish ever owned lake Winni and you might get laughed at trying to apply for it.Plus you still got a country called ireland if i'm not mistaken.

I aint never got out of a speeding ticket because of my skin color.I wish sometimes something would have got me out of them things cause my insurance sure could be lower.

The netting issue I dont think the tribe decided on that yet. Maybe they wont even net, maybe its just a threat or a diabolical plot to take over the world. laugh.gif

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If you think the tribes are not going to net URL and sell the fish for a profit you really need to wake up, and look what has happened in the last 10-20yrs. Let me ask you this also, why do most other fish get thrown up on shore, because they are not good enough to eat or because they will bring no money at the market? I have seen native am. throwing pike and muskies(big ones also) up on the shores at lakes where netting has taken place. The dnr can do nothing but watch because the native am. have been given a ticket to " get out of jail free" for doing that. If anyone else did that they would be cited for waste.

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black max

What lakes is this? lower red ? and if so what were you doing on the shores of lower red? you werent trying to get a couple crappies for yourshelf were you? blush.gif

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ChannelRat

True but we retained it. I think this is just a case of somebody wanting what another has.

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".

This is just reverse discrimination


Hey Black, I like the fact you at least acknowledge discrimination.

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I'm going to have to laugh at some of this. In fact a little beer already came flying out of my nose!

Geez!

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Closing the thread doesn't make the issues go away.

I think everyone can agree on one thing. We all love the lake - when there's fish in it. When there aren't any fish left in the lake most people lose interest pretty fast. We've seen that happen before. We just have to make sure it doesn't happen again.

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I think this might be the only site on the web where this

kind of discussion could go on for as long as it has with

out needing cyberdusting. I commend most posters here for

using some restraint.

Since registration is required on this site to post, the

cloak of invisibility is gone and so it 95 percent of the

bashing. We are all real people here and seem to be

treating each other that way.

Very timely discussion, I hope it continues.

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The lake I was referring to was mille lacs, maybe you have heard of it. Tribes net that lake also. I don't know if you know but the native americans are netting walleyes on other lakes in mn also. I believe the tribes net leech lake also and WOW they are having problems with low walleye count's in that lake also. I have never been on lower red in my life so no I can't tell you for sure if it is going on there, but if I was a gambling may I would bet my house mtg on it. [Please read forum policy] Omega, therre is no dought about it the native americans were discriminated against, nobody is disputing that. We now have swung the pendulum the other way and are discriminating the other direction though. There are so many people comming out of the woodwork even on this site. I have, no has any of my family taken and land from anyone or held any one down, and I think most native americans would have to agree that they themselves havent had any land stolen or been held down in thier lifetime.

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Black max

mentioned in earlier post I'm not a red lake enrollee.I never mentioned anything about race.I simply asked the question if this was lower red since thats the topic of this conversation thats all.

Now on to millacs you should have called tribal co's on perpatraitors if you indeed witness this.I for sure know the tribe there does not allow that kind of stuff.I dont know if you did but you should have kept fish and ate them.It would have been a good way for you to ensure they didnt go to waste.Sort of your little protest.

Leech- I thought them cormorants were eating all the fish there.What in the heck they shoot all them dang birds for.

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They are shooting the cormarants to be politically correct. What do you think would happen if a state run agency came out and said the tribal netting is seriously hurting the fishing? I am sure the birds aren't helping but niether are the gill nets.

As far as calling someone on the tribes, the drn was right there monitoring how many fish the tribe was taking and when we asked how they could get away with that, we were told that they had no juirsdiction over what the tribe was doing and there was nothing anyone could do about it. Just thier option to throw em on the shore. The dnr guys said they did it so there sould be less competioon for food with the other eyes in the lake. [Note from admin: please read forum policy before posting again]

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If there are problems on Leech or Mille Lacs shouldn't those posts be on the Leech or Mille Lacs Forums?

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Black max

Not that i dont believe you just that seems like you make your own theories and judgements.Then quickly point the finger at the natives.Them dang natives must be netting have'nt got a bit all day.I was wondering what news do you watch that reports this kind of stuff i would watch every night because i never heard of it.

Also did you pick up the fish left on shore.It would have made a great meal northerns are pretty good table fare.Them fish could have replaced some of them walleyes you feel cheated out of.With you being so concerned with waste if you just left them there seems to me you let them waste too.

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