The 2005 Chicago White Sox will........

[Down to Earth]

I'll give you a congrats for taking 2 of three from the Twins over the weekend. Still don't understand how you can be so excited having your 1 game lead in the standings a week into the season. I guess its because when there is only 1 week left in the season you won't be in the same position. I'll let you live in the glory while you have it since it will be shortlived.

[buzzsaw]

I looked for an article proclaiming the White Sox or Tigers to go far this year and all I could find was this article from ESPN: Jayson Starks 2005 world series pick. (sorry Backherup, I know you can't handle reading long articles)

Who knows what champions are made of?

It isn't always money. Even in baseball.

Just ask the Yankees. Ask the Red Sox. Ask them how terrified they were last year of playing the best little low-budget team on our planet -- those Minnesota Twins, the team that is going to win the World Series this year.

Listen to Yankees GM Brian Cashman.

"I remember last September, when we were playing the Red Sox," Cashman says. "I was talking with (Sox GM) Theo (Epstein). And we were saying, 'Boy, we sure don't want to play Minnesota.' We were both saying the same thing. The frustrating thing for us was, we had the best record in the league and we had to play Minnesota. Not that the Angels were any fun, either. But nobody wanted to face Minnesota."

These Twins cause nightmares. Listen to Red Sox manager Terry Francona.

"Last year when we were coming down the stretch, I'm thinking, 'I don't want to see Johan Santana twice in that first round,'" Francona says. "If Santana comes out and throws two shutouts at you, you're in big trouble. Look at the Yankees series. I think he did throw about 1½ (shutouts)."

And the Yankees were, in fact, in big trouble. Nobody remembers it anymore, thanks to the trouble the Red Sox wound up dealing them. But the Yankees were two outs away from trailing the Twins in the Division Series, 2-0 -- and about to head to Minnesota for Games 3 and 4.

Asked how often he thinks about how close his team came to plummeting into that canyon, Yankees manager Joe Torre laughs.

"All the time," he says.

He thought about it all winter. Now he can think about it again all summer -- because six months from now, after the Yankees and Red Sox have finished obsessing about each other, the Twins figure to be waiting for one of them again, hiding out innocently in baseball's October minefield.

"Scary," Torre says of that prospect. "Minnesota scares us because they can pitch. That's why they've won their division three straight years. That's why they've been so successful. You don't have to spend $200 million, as long as the money you've spent on pitching is well-spent."

The secret to the success of the Twins, though, is that all their money is well-spent.

They might work with just a third of the Yankees' payroll, and about half of the Red Sox's, but the Twins have built something special and durable.

What they've built, says one American League scout, is a system that has turned them into "the Patriots of baseball."

Think about it.

The team is always bigger than any individual.

The payroll is always modest.

They're the best in the business defensively.

And the system -- relentlessly plugging talent into whatever holes are vacated by the players who move on every year -- works.

Sound familiar?

It does to us. But Twins GM Terry Ryan visibly squirms through that Patriots-of-baseball talk for one very basic reason: "Unfortunately, we haven't won anything," Ryan says.

"They've won three Super Bowls. So I don't know if that's true," he adds. "It's a flattering statement. Don't get me wrong. But we haven't won anything. Sure, we've won three American League Central titles, which is great. But we haven't done the ultimate. Hell, we haven't even gotten to the ultimate."

Well, no -- not yet they haven't. But don't let all the Yankees-Red Sox mania fool you. The 2005 Twins are a team built to win -- over the long haul, over a short series. They have a formula in place that can easily lead them down a November parade route.

A dominating ace (Santana).

A dominating closer (Joe Nathan).

Depth in the rotation.

Maybe the deepest bullpen in baseball.

The all-web-gem team on defense.

And big-game players who have begun to accumulate enough postseason experience that they no longer fear anyone.

"You know what?" says Ron Gardenhire, the most underappreciated manager alive. "If you don't lack for pitching and you can catch the ball, I've never heard of too many times where that formula didn't work."

Not that the Yankees' formula might not work just as well, you understand. For 200 million bucks, heck, it ought to work. But the Yankees have found out these past four years that all their dollars can't control the tumbling dice of October baseball.

"Anything can happen," Cashman says. "And believe me, it could just as easily have happened for the Twins as anybody else the last two years."

Those deep checking accounts in Boston and New York might show up in experience, depth and sheer recognizability, but Cashman doesn't buy this notion that cash flow necessarily makes his team better than the Twins.

"We're just constructed differently," the Yankees GM says. "In recent years, we've used free agency to patch our holes. They've had some tremendous drafts, and made some great trades, and they've paid off. For every Joe Nathan they bring in, I have a Tom Gordon. They developed a Justin Morneau. We signed a Tino Martinez. It's just a different approach."

The Twins, of course, see it a little differently.

"When you're playing them," Gardenhire chuckles, "you're looking at these guys. And after you finish facing a three-time All-Star, now here comes a four-time All-Star off the bench to pinch-hit for a two-time All-Star. It's something to see, I'll tell you.

"But you know what? We enjoy what we're doing with this ball club, watching some of these young men come up and develop into big leaguers. We're just a small-market team trying to do it our way."

Then again, they have to do it their way, because they sure can't do it the Yankees' way. But lots of teams talk about winning with scouting and teaching and selflessness. The Twins, though, are the standard those other teams are trying to duplicate. They are to that approach what the Yankees are to check-writing.

"I guess the big thing," Ryan says, "is that we're unselfish. Everyone from the manager, the coaching staff, the players, the front office, the scouts, the minor-league people -- we don't have much interest in that 'me' attitude. We're more interested in the final result. We're more interested in being unselfish. That's the way it's supposed to be, isn't it? I don't think it should be a rarity. If it is, that's not right."

But it is. And the Twins' success in engraining it shows up in the amazing chemistry with which this team works and plays. Ryan and Gardenhire set that selfless tone at the top, and even their best players embody it every hour of every day.

"We do have stars," Gardenhire says. "We have Torii Hunter, Brad Radke, Johan Santana, Jacque Jones and Shannon Stewart. So we have stars -- but they don't play that way. They don't look for the spotlight. They just like being part of it.

"And the two (position players) who have been here the longest -- Jacque and Torii -- play as hard as anybody. They run balls out. They do everything right. It's nice to have that kind of clubhouse, where guys understand how we play coming in. They understand what we're trying to do."

So many of these players came through the system together -- won together, lost together, grew up together -- that there is a cohesiveness to the Twins that you don't find everywhere. They just exude "team" -- much like the Super Bowl champs.

"I like that comparison," Hunter says. "This was the year a lot of people said the Patriots were going to lose, but look what they did. They didn't have the best talent. But they made the best of what they had, and they played good defense. And that's our thing. Play defense. Play the game the right way. We're always the most underrated team out there. People say we're an aberration, we're a fluke. But you know what? Every year we do it."

And this year, more than ever, they have that certain look about them.

Santana has matured into the best pitcher in the whole sport -- a left-handed dominator of whom Cashman says: "If I needed a Game 7 starter and you told me I can pick anyone out there, he would be the guy."

And behind him there is Radke, coming off a season in which he finished fourth in the league in ERA (3.48) and in which only Santana and Curt Schilling allowed fewer baserunners per nine innings.

They're followed by three starters who all have won at least 14 games in a season -- Kyle Lohse, Joe Mays and Carlos Silva -- and a bullpen featuring power arms, left-right balance and one of the sport's best young closers (Nathan).

There are some worries about an offense that finished fourth in the division in runs scored, isn't particularly selective and hasn't produced a 30-homer man in 18 years. But the emergence of Morneau (41 home runs last year between Triple-A and the big leagues) and the breathtakingly talented Joe Mauer (owner of a .407 career minor-league on-base percentage) could help reshape both of those chinks.

And if they need help, scouts gush about their prospects not too far over the horizon -- particularly pitchers Scott Baker and J.D. Durbin, and outfielder Jason Kubel.

"We have the pieces in place," Gardenhire says. "Now we just have to produce."

This is a team that has every right to be envious of the Yankees and Red Sox. And in a way, it is. But not how you think -- because it isn't their resources Terry Ryan envies.

"Yeah, I get jealous -- when I see them in the World Series," the GM says. "We've gone to the playoffs. We've been to the first tier. We've even been to the second tier. But then, when you watch them play that seven-game set in the third tier, that's when the jealousy sets in -- because that's where you want to be."

And this year, you get the feeling, they've set the bar higher than ever before. It isn't just enough for this team to make another cameo in the first week of October anymore. These Twins have bigger aspirations.

"We know what we're working for," Ryan says.

Well, we have a feeling this just might be the year, too: The year the ultimate "we" team sneaks around the gargantuan "me-me-me" shadows of the Yankees and Red Sox. The year the Minnesota Twins prove they really are baseball's Patriots.

Jayson Stark is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

[Willy]

Quote:

---

The Twins will be exposed on national television...

Santana (1-0, 7.20 ERA!) won't be "on" tonight and will lose with no run support or bullpen help. I predict they lose 5-1 and Santana goes 5 1/3 innings, throws 98 pitches, gives up 4 runs (leaving his ERA at 6.97), strikes out 4, walks 4 and gets hit in the shoulder with a line drive off the bat of Joe Crede in the middle of the 5th and has to go on the 15-day D.L...

---

Yep can'tbackitup, you're right again. Santanna thoroughly dominated the whole sox lineup after he found his groove. Struck out 11....how many....11!

Also glad to see that you and Windy City are buddied up. You guys won't be so friendly though towards the end of the season when your teams are fighting for 3 place.

[Down to Earth]

Excellent article Buzzsaw. Our rotation depth will be tested now with Silva out for an extended time. It's great to see these guys producing the way they are. I remember working(though on a limited basis) with some of those guys in the minor leagues. Goes to show you how good our front office, scouting and minor league personnel is to put this kind of team out on the field year in and year out.

[mnvikingsfreak]

Its funny that "backherup" only responds to threads or starts them when minnesota teams either loose or his teams "detroilet" wins yet again another prediction is way off! santana 11 strikeouts in 7 innings not bad on national tv eh?

[mnvikingsfreak]

p.s. the metrodome rules!

[Eric Wettschreck]

I'm eating a little crow cuz I said the Twins will take 2 outta 3.

I'll be dishing out the mother of all crow platters to the windy city fans once the post season starts and the smelly sox are sitting in their living rooms watching the Twins play, again. But hey, they should be used to that by now.

Santana is the man. Face it. HE DA MAN!!!!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

HELLO BOYS !

I guess the broom supply is safe in Minneapolis for the time being. I guess that I will have to be satisfied with 2 out of 3 spankin' of the Twinkie ARSES and in the "baggie dome" to boot...oh yea and knocking out one of their premier pitchers for HALF A SEASON ! Wait...SOX WIN AGAIN over the Tribe, way to go Freddy Garcia.

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD.....YES !

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Hey BUZZ,

Do you get paid by the word? Just a thought...Less is More!

Windy

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD....YES!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Hey Back Her Up,

Good luck in the next series. Go out and spank a little Twinkie ARSE like my boys just did. I hope Maggs and Farnsworth can come through for the Tigers. What is that sound I hear in the background in Twinkie land...."Over-rated.....Over-rated...."

Later, Windy

[Mudcutter]

It's amazing how 2 (Blowing Wind and Can'tberherup) jokers get when trying like the dickens' to talk smack agst a true champion in the Twinks. Wonder if the talk will be as sweet between the two when they play each other and come close to splitting (10-9, ((advt sux ((becasue you suck more)) 10 losses and 9 losses. Not that the twins need any help, we only finshed 20 games ahd of the so called "most improved team in baseball". "Dumptroit", that's what I call the Tigers and that city they call "home". Dumptroit has got to be the biggest dump this side of Manilla. For people in Chi and Det, that's in the Phillipines, not a sub of your city or a sub of Philadelphia. For those who have never been to Manilla, just imagine Dumptroit with no "troit".

[buzzsaw]

Windy makes three posts in a row and tells me that "less is more"??? I'm laughing!! I will say that you are as predictable as my dog taking a morning dump... I just knew you wouldn't respond to our banter right away after Santana pounded your boys on ESPN! But as soon as you beat the Tribe... waa laaa Heeeeee's baaaaack! You've got to learn to give credit were credit is due and by saying overrated you obviously missed that day in school. Minnesota has won three (3) division titles in a row and you can't give them any credit? Will this years 4th str8 title make you a believer? oh no, we have to dip into our farm system for another pitcher.... did you know Minnesota and Atlanta are known to have the best farm systems in baseball sparky? You say "less is more" I say I need to explain things out to people like you.

Did you also not notice that we played the entire series without Morneau??

yeah, I know... he's no good either right?!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Buzz, mud, Windy city.....please help me out a little. I'm not much of a history buff. I was just wondering when the last time the tribe or sox was in the playoffs?? Or produced a Cy Young winner???? or had AL leading ERA??? Or won the division????

Just curious.

[Willy]

I might be able to help a little bit. I'm assuming you meant Detroit and not Cleveland. But it has been since 1987 since the Tigers have been in the playoff, when they lost in the alcs to a little team that happened to win the world series that year. Since then they have only been above .500 3 times from 87'-present. The white sox won the central in 2000 and were beaten in the first round of the playoffs. After that year, they were supposed to be the team to beat for the next several years but never panned out. As far as Cy young winners, Chicago had one in 1993 in Jack McDowel, and Detroit's last one was in 1984, with Willie Hernandez. The rest I don't know.

[fishyguy]

Windy,

You claimed your team "knocked out one of our premier pitchers for half a season". I am assuming you are referring to Silva, so I ask...How did your team knock him out? He did not pitch in the series, he did not play nor was it at your field. Did Carl Everett put him in a toehold like the Jumping Jim Brunzell might and hurt his knee? Did Konerko throw down a banana peel and cause Silva to slip?

What am I missing?

[fishyguy]

Has anyone ever seen Windy and Cantbackitup in the same room? Same person? We may never know.

[genegodawa]

I met Windy on the Cass Lake forum and found out he was really devoted to his SouthSiders - but this guy about Detroit wins hands down - they can not possibly be one and the same.

Besides, I know Windy understands where credit is due - he just likes to stir the pot. In my opinion, Backerup has the blinders on. As my Grannie used to say, "it's like talking to the wall". So with him I wouldn't even bother to try. I guess if he can't dazzle us with brilliance, he'll try to baffle us with bull.

-the Cubbie lovin' machine

[fishyguy]

Quote:

---

I met Windy on the Cass Lake forum and found out he was really devoted to his SouthSiders - but this guy about Detroit wins hands down - they can not possibly be one and the same.

Besides, I know Windy understands where credit is due - he just likes to stir the pot. In my opinion, Backerup has the blinders on. As my Grannie used to say, "it's like talking to the wall". So with him I wouldn't even bother to try. I guess if he can't dazzle us with brilliance, he'll try to baffle us with bull.

-the Cubbie lovin' machine

---

Agreed....and a little pot stirring and good fun is all I had in mind also.

[buzzsaw]

I think I'll keep it short for Windybreath, You guys are good on history and Gene I tend to agree with you. Short enough Windy?

[genegodawa]

I just hope the discussion continues as it is either good natured ribbing or informative and sometimes both.

Now my .02 ---- a pretty even division actually, even KC finds an acorn once in awhile. My instincts go with the Twins but the ChiSox are much better than last year IMO.

If it wasn't for Harrelson at the mic, I might even root for them. Detroit has potential for sure though.

Remember, everyone wins one out of three and everyone loses one out of three - it's the third out of three that makes the diff in the standings.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Fishyguy,

We have ways in the Windy City to impart injury on the least suspecting, especially to a poor Twinkie arm like Silva. I could tell you how we knocked him out but then I would have to kill you (kidding)!

Gene, Gene, the Cubbie-Loving Machine. I was wondering how long it would take you to find this thread and chime in. You're blowing my cover my man. I love "stirrin the pot" and since I haven't heard a peep from a Cub fan (Walleye Diver, that means you) I figured I would beat up on some Twinkie-Eaters. So are you worried about tomorrows double header? I think the last time I saw Wood and Prior going back to back was that championship drive where all the Cubbies had to do was beat up the Fish one out of two games and we all know how that horror story ended....BARTMAN !!!

Just kidding, I know I will be tuning in to see whose arm falls off first, Woodie or Prior (-; Good luck with those Padres! Curt

[genegodawa]

Just keep on stirring, Windy. You have so much room to talk now while your ChiSox are in first that you better take advantage of it. But I also know you will be here after they take that dive towards third place.

Hey, you better stop wishing bad on the Cub's starters or it might backfire and they might actually have a good season to prove you wrong. Son't you really, truly, deep-down hope you are wrong so we have at least one winner in Chicago?

-the Cubbie lovin' machine

[fishyguy]

Quote:

---

Fishyguy,

We have ways in the Windy City to impart injury on the least suspecting, especially to a poor Twinkie arm like Silva. I could tell you how we knocked him out but then I would have to kill you (kidding)!

---

Windy,

I don't doubt you a bit. I went to college and played ball with many kids from the South Side and was very happy they were my friends and not my enemies. If that is how you take care of problems down there, didn't you guys get a little carried away with the message being sent to Magglio Ordonez last year?

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Fishy,

Maggs went against the family and as Michael told Fredo, "You're my older brother and I love you but don't ever take sides against the family". After Maggs turned down the Sox $75 mil, Kenny Williams told him to "Say hello to my leetle friend". And his knee was toast, two surgeries and it is off to Motown. That's how we handle things on the South side of Chicago, in the baddest part of town. Sox win again!!!

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD.....YES!

[friendlyfisher]

Since you guys are now talking about the cubbies a little I was wondering if any of you ever listen to the games on the radio at 660am. I hear them all the time and I cant stand that Ron Santos guy. You must have to be a hometown fan to like him I guess. He is terrible, the other guy is pretty good but gets brought down when Ron steps on all his calls.

Now for those pesky sox, they keep winning the close ones. Windy, you never said if you are happy you have AJ Pierzynski or not. ff

[genegodawa]

That Ron Santo guy you are talking about IS Chicago Cubs (even though he played a yr for Windy's ChiSox)- right behind Ernie, with Billy not far behind. I wouldn't want him any other way than to be 100% behind the Cubbies. That would be like wanting Lasorda not to bleed Dodger Blue or taking the pinstripes off Ruth or asking Yaz to root for the Yankees or..........Never mind, I guess half of all disappointments come from misguided expectations. I am not saying you should like him. But when I don't like an announcer, like Harrelson of the ChiSox, I just don't listen.

Man, do I miss the days of Harry and Jimmy.

[friendlyfisher]

Gene, I understand what you are saying, if I dont like him than dont listen. On the other hand nothing is beter than crusing down the road on a nice sommer day and listening to a cubs game. I find myself wanting them to win since they usually loose. Having said that, most analysts or sidekicks are bigtime homers. NOt being a diehard cub fan or not being from chicago has a lot to do with it. Santo just buggs me once and a while, nothing more nothing less. ff

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Amen to that Geno!

I loved Harry and Jimmy when they were calling the Sox games. I remember once when Harry had a few too many Buds and he was disagreeing with Jimmy and he says, "Jimmy you dont know what you're talking about, your crazy." To which Jimmy responds, " I am not crazy and I have the papers to prove it"! It was a classic line. I have Harry's autograph and it is one of my most treasured. Freindly, I guess my take on AJ is kind of like when the Bulls got the worm. I hated him in Detroit but loved him on the Bulls. He has not shot himself in the foot yet with his mouth. I think with the flack he got in SF he is keeping a pretty low tone and positive attitude. He has the tools and he can hit. As long as he engages brain before engaging mouth I think he will be OK. Later, Curt

[buzzsaw]

Hey Windy, What's the White Sox "Magic Number"????

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

About 5 less than the Twinks, Buzz. Hey, you guys finally found a team you can beat up on. Congrats on your resounding thumping of KC tonight. 2-1 WOW, the Twinks are back!!!

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD.....YES!

Windy