Quality Deer Management

[Mark Christianson]

Pistolero

I assume you are talking for strictly firearms hunting?

For Archery, I would not agree to any of those items.

For firearms, I would consider a few of them.

[jlm]

Great posts guys! One thing that is important for all of us to understand is that QDM is a voluntary program. I am a huge supporter of QDM, however, I do not like nor will I promote DNR mandated programs that put limits on all of us. The best part of QDM is that we can make our own rules based on the guidelines of QDM. If you want to allow kids to shoot small bucks, I say go for it. If someone makes an honest mistake, no big deal, just try do better next time. I do not like antler restrictions because of the problems that can create if it is a state mandated thing. I think the season is fine where it is as far as dates go. I do not like earn a buck because it puts limits on hunters, that is something we do not need. Plus, if we have an area with low doe numbers, this really creates a problems! QDM is a movement that is voluntary and appears to be something that is catching on with many hunters in many states. It is possible to have QDM without so many restrictions in my opinion. It is way too early to talk of state mandate as many hunters would oppose this. In the future, you never know.

[Pistolero]

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Pistolero

I assume you are talking for strictly firearms hunting?

For Archery, I would not agree to any of those items.

For firearms, I would consider a few of them.

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BLB,

I do not think that any of the selections would apply state wide, that it would be based on the deer population per area. The reason that I’m asking about these options is that they were the ones discussed in Missouri. The Antler-point restriction was selected, which does apply to archery and firearms in 29 counties. I found this information in there 2004 hunting regulations. Also of interest is what the restrictions are on each antler point is to be considered legal. I have also looked at the Arkansas 2004 hunting regulations. There is a lot of interesting information in the regulations from both states and worth taking a look.

[Dan Wood]

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curious as to with plan you people would prefer:

1. Antler-point restriction

2. Move season out of rut

3. Earn-a-buck

4. Shorten buck season

5. Buck permit quota

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I agree with BLB on limiting any type of restriction to gun and muzzleloader season only.

Being an archery hunter primarily, I'd love to see the gun season miss the rut. I do however think that would never work with people. That is the only time some of the really big bucks are seen. I'd rather have some of the giant bucks shot than dying of old age. Bowhunting just isn't effective at taking out these deer.

Earn a buck, I'm assuming your talking people need to shoot a doe before a buck. I hate that idea. I've hunted enough of the Metro archery hunts to know I don't like this idea. Being in the woods and knowing you can't shoot a big buck if he comes by just plain sucks IMO.

I like #1 and #5. I've seen what limiting buck tags can do for the population in ND. I don't feel the length of the season will have much effect on QDM. The small bucks will still get shot.

[lawdog]

1. I don't have a problem with but it needs to be workable. I think there are other states beside the two your discuss that have done this, wish I could remember where...PA maybe??? I know there are a handfull.

2. I don't think there is much chance of this, plus with all the season options we have I don't know when you could move it to. On a purely personal note, I know I and MANY other MN hunters really like having the season different than Wisc. or other neighboring states too.

3. This is something I think should be done, but ONLY in areas where the DNR sees a pretty severe overpopulation. In areas like here we don't seem to be overpopulated and this would not be wise here I don't think. Several areas in Cheeseland did this this year and I hear the zone I hunt will be next year...

4. No. Don't really think it matters the length of it. You would do more by adjusting the dates. Buck hunting with the ML's last weekend didn't kill huge numbers of bucks.

5. I think this could work, but wouldn't be my first choice. I personally don't know that we have too many buck tags, just too many baby bucks shot in my opinion...

[Pistolero]

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It is way too early to talk of state mandate as many hunters would oppose this. In the future, you never know.

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I think your right jlm, it might be premature to discuss mandated programs. But the DNR is looking at them and watching how they work in other states. I’m not interested in mandated programs, but if the deer population is not reduced in some areas I feel that the DNR might implement some of these programs. It looks like we might have another mild winter which will result in a lot of twin fawns in the spring. It will be interesting to see what, if any, changes they make for next years hunt. Maybe well be able to take a maximum of 10 deer instead of only 5!

Anyway, I’m trying to keep an open mind about this QDM stuff. But I do agree that the brown-is-down mentality needs to become history.

[BLACKJACK]

1. Antler-point restriction. No. Practice QDM if you want, but don't mandate it, especially when I think that if it was put to a vote of deer hunters, a point restriction would be voted down overwhelmingly. Also, I don't see that many spikes, I see a lot of basket rack eights that are still only 1 1/2 year olds - they'd still get shot.

2. Move season out of rut. I think this is the best choice to save bucks but it has the least chance of being implemented because of tradition, conflicts with other states deer hunting seasons, and concerns about cold weather.

3. Earn-a-buck. No. Don't want Mr. Big to walk by when I'm still trying to earn a buck.

4. Shorten buck season. NO. It puts too much emphasis on 'a buck is the only deer worth shooting'. I was glad when they got rid of the bucks only 3A season. That season created a whole generation of buck hunters in SE MN.

5.Buck permit quota. Not sure how this would work but I'm thinking no for the same reasons as number 4.

[lichen fox]

Blackjack...you hit the nail on the head...the damage is already done..."created a whole generation of BUCK hunters".

The regulations we have had to live with for the past several years has created "a buck is the only deer worth shooting or talking about" mentality. I've been hunting whitetails for over 30 years with archery and firearms. When I first began we had a good deer population and you could take "whatever" and were congratulated for your luck!!

Then I watched a generation grow up that on occassion made an honest mistake and down went a doe!! All of a sudden you're looking for the guy with the open doe tag...the kid feels like he or she has done something terribly wrong! The congrat's on the first deer are foregone and a lecture ensues on making sure of your target...when 15 other guys chase 10 deer out of the woods and they are running full speed some with horns, some without...the poster gets excited...maybe they were "aiming" at a buck...but... What I'm getting at is that we need to re-educate a whole generation of hunters that "across the board" management is a good thing....that for most hunters an old smart doe is just as much a trophy as something with alot of horns...ecspecially if you're bowhunting. What is your definition of a "big" buck?? I see plenty of pope and young class whitetails (125") every year...The largest buck I have harvested to date grossed in the mid 160's. I've seen 3 so far this year that would (in my estimation) be in the 170 class...they both have made it through the firearms and muzzeloader season's too!! There are ALOT of quality whitetail bucks around and we don't need more DNR rules (the book in MN is already about 10 pounds)mandating what kind of deer we shoot....if anything they should make it easier for the hunter to bag a deer...it would sure make the insurance company's happy if the roadkills dropped in half!! If you're going to manage for quality you're going to have to make sure no hunter gets excited on a deer drive(perhaps we should outlaw drives...deer are hard to judge on the run)...you'll have to educate hunters on how to judge a deer in the field...the best way is to put out a bucket of corn....you can size a deer up pretty good if you can watch him for five or 10 minutes! You can bet if the DNR mandates "thier own" QDM program there will be an additional 10 or 12 pages of additional regulations to assure "thier QDM policies" are adhered too...If you want to practice it on your own property or within your own party....great!! I do myself on my own property....but I don't go telling the neighbor's to leave that 125 class buck alone 'cause he'll be a real monster in a couple of years!! To each his own...and leave the DNR out of it!

[HunterLee]

The biggest help to save some of the big bucks is to move the season to befroe or after the rut. I shot a big 8 pointer this year. 18 inside and 11.5 in. and 11 in tines. happy to shoot him, but i would of never found him without the rut. just was standing with a doe in the middle of the field at 9 in the morning. only was seen once before that during bowhinting and that was jumping him while setting up the stand. and i think it would make people work harder to get a nice one. just my thoughts for the rest of the ideas i dont like them at all its a personal choice on what to shoot. i like to have my younger brothers shoot at any bucks becasue to them it was big not matter how little i think it is.

[tripper]

What I see here is a debate on each persons concerns based on the area they hunt and what they personaly want to get out of hunting. So I say leave things alone and let the DNR do it's job.

My thoughts on the 5 points that were brought up.

1. I would say no point restriction. Why, because a large protion of this state is like where I hunt, the under brush is so thick that a good count on points can't be done at 30yrds. from a stand.

2.Here the season use to start the weekend before thanksgiving and run through the following weekend,9 days. I'll list some of the complants that got it changed. A. Hunters at deer camp for thnksgiving instead of home with the family. B. To cold and to much snow. C.Not enough big bucks being seen, wanted season moved to the rut when they move more. hmmmm D. Season not long enough, to meny could not get time off during that 9 days. hmmmm Now you have to keep in mind that this was at a time that there were no deer around the cities or close to it and hunters had to travel to the north wooods. That being said it makes me wonder how bad of a job the DNR is doing being you can shoot more of them down there now then you can in the north woods.

3.I take it this means I have to shoot a doe before I can shoot a buck. Let me suggest someting else for areas that need doe control. I go get a lic. and it is for a doe, if I also want the oppertunity to shoot a buck I buy a bonus tag at half price for it. In areas where you can take several deer you would have to state it is for a buck. This entered in the computer so that if you try to buy another buck tag it shows up. On the all season lic. only the origal buck tag would be allowed.

4. I do not think this would help much because at least around here most bucks are taken during the first half anyway. And what do you do with the all season lic. holder?

5. Think I kind of covered this with #3.