Tough deer???

[ironranger420]

Maybe some of you could share your experiences with either losing deer that you thought you had hit good, or deer that you had to track for long distances and were able to recover. I am just simply amazed at how tough these animals are. You hit them where it counts, or at least you think you do and they won't go down.

I hunt with a 30-06 with 165 grain balistic tip bullets, these things leave a hole. I'd rather kill the deer quick and on the spot, than save some meet. That being said, I shot what appeared to be a "record book wall-hanger", i had my deer goggles on, on Saturday afternoon around 3:30. He was pushing a doe and scooted across my shooting lane too quick to get a shot. I hit my fawn bleat, and the doe came back into my shooting lane, the buck refused to show himself again. I decided to grab my grunt call and use the tending grunt to bring him in. This worked, he jumped out form the thick stuff and started trotting right towards me. I had a head on shot and didn't want to take it at 100 yards. He turned slightly as he manuevered around a log and gave me the perfect shot. I took the shot and thought he was down. Long story short, me and some guys from camp tracked this thing for 600 yards in the dark with flashlights and never ended up finding him. The next morning I went back out to see if I could pick up the blood trail where we had lost it the night before. After a couple of hours I found tiny blood drops and was able to pick up a tough blood trail. I walked another 200 yards and found him dead. He was a really nice 10-ptr. It turns out that I hit him through both of his lungs and busted his right front shoulder. this deer ran over a half mile with a hole through both lungs and only 3 working legs. How do these animals do it? all I can say is these animals are darn tough!!!!!

[bigbucks]

That's amazing that he could go that far.

I hit my 8 point bow buck through one lung, the liver & stomach. He didn't go probably more that 200 yards total, but we jumped him 3 times with a miniscule blood trail. He lived nearly 3 hours from that hit. I shot him again eventually in his bed, but only hit shoulder. The initial hit is what killed him.

[kjgmh]

In 1997 I hit a nice 8pt with my 30.06 at about 40 yds. Made a good shot, eventually found that I had hit both lungs pretty good. But this deer went almost a mile and in the process went across a small lake that only had about 2 inches of ice on it. It is amazing how far they can go when lethally hit.

[GrouseHunt'R]

Similar story here from last season. Hit a nice 8pt at 20yds, let him go for 2 hours before tracking as there was plenty of snow. Started tracking and eventually crossed a frozen creek into uncharted lands. Long story short, 2.7 mile loop through bogs, swamps and knee deep mud to end finally catching up to the deer 150 feet from the point of first impact. Lung shot, but if he had more blood he'd still be going today I bet. He didn't have a single drop left inside him at this point and we had tracked just tracks for the last couple hundred feet.

Yes they can be extremely tough, even more so if they are in heavy rut. Mine took the time to freshen up a few scrapes along the way.

[Iceman77]

I have many personal experiences both of my own and from various family members and friends related to this subject. We found many interesting things along the way especially in relation to the rifle caliber, grain of the bullet, and velocity of the bullet. Of the deer that have traveled the furthest they were all shot with larger caliber rifles. I have a .308 that I decided to see what it would do on a deer and shot a buck about 10 years ago that ran over 500 yards. I walked up to it and hit just under the center point of the lungs and upon cleaning I found the entry hole, the hole through the lungs(which got slightly larger on the exit), and a large hole going out the opposite side of the deer. After further discussion everyone that I trust that shot a larger caliber all noticed the same thing as opposed to the 6mm, .243's, and .270's. My 6mm when I hit the lungs they will be shredded beyond recognition. I have read articles before on this that state the larger calibers do not always do a good job on expanding as they will expand slower than that of the small calibers, hence the vastly larger exit holes. The energy isn't being applied to the vitals on a deer with the larger calibers. I also shoot a .243-06 and I do all my own custom loads and I decided to add more powder and decrease the seating of the bullet until the accuracy started to tail off at 400 yards. After some trials I maximized velocity and accuracy to what I wanted. I shot 2 deer that year that reacted just like my .308 did and my buddies .30-06. I found that the bullet was going fast and not mushrooming at the appropriate time in the "boiler room." I then changed it over to hollow points and tested both accuracy and velocity again to make sure everything was still okay. Then the lungs would be shredded again.

From mine and others experiences we have found the larger calibers not acceptable to us for whitetail hunting and to play with the speed and bullet type to get what we want. I now only use the .308 for elk and moose hunting which does an awesome job there... I personally just won't use it again for deer.

[Outdoors_guy]

Last Saturday my party scared up a nice big 10 pointer. It was first shot in the hind leg below all the meat. Then it ran broadside of me at about 30 yards and i thought I had shot him in the head. There was a huge cloud of blood that sprayed out and it never fased him, didn't even move his head when he was hit. So i thought i just grazed his nose and he was still in a full sprint across the plowed field. Thinking that he was going to get away from us he suddenly stopped about 250 yards after he was shot in the head and layed down. He was still looking around when he was laying there and then i shot him in the neck to finish him. The amazing thing is the shot to his head went right under his eye and out the other side. Turns out he also had a shot right under the backbone which would of left no blood trail because his insides clogged the hole up. 3 legs a shot to the gut and a hole in his head and still ran 250 yards full speed. That was one tough deer that didn't give up. Using 12 gauge shot guns with 2 3/4" slugs.

[lawdog]

If you ask me, walking two steps or so with a bullet or a slug shredding you is just amazing let alone a mile or two.

The buck I shot Tuesday morning with a 12 ga sabot at 70 yards ran on a full sprint about 60-70 yards after that slug went through both lungs and tore his heart to shreds. It sounded like someone punched somebody when it hit him, and I just can't believe it didn't knock him right over. He was not running or anything either, just walking along following a doe...

[ccarlson]

I too, lost a monster buck. 30-06, 165 grain at 80 yards. 7:20 AM on Saturday of the second weekend. Rib bone chunks, bright red and pink blood and chunks of lung left in the first 300 yards and believe it or not, it would not stop. Let it sit and it wouldn't lay down.

Tracked it for 11 hours this past weekend with a consistent trail of blood drops. Litteraly trailed it for miles. Over 4 roads and one highway. Finally pushed it up to a river and bog at 3:30 on Saturday just ahead of me. I heard it get up and I ran like heck to get a shot. I ended up running into the bog up to my waist in ice and water but couldn't get close enough- quick enough. I could just see water and ice chunks flying in the air less than 100 yards ahead of me as I struggled to get through the bog myself.

Picked up the trail the next morning at 9:30 on the other side of the river until the blood trail slowed and it eventually hit a logged off area and we couldn't find the trail after that. I don't know how he kept going losing that much blood, bone and lung.

What a shame. I was sick and heartbroken and exhausted. It was the buck of a lifetime. Must have hit it in just one lung and somehow missed the other vitals. It was a quartering away shot but seemed do-able.

Sad thing was, this deer went under 9 vacant deer stands in broad daylight on Saturday while we were trailing it. Wish someone had been there to stop it.

Been playing the whole thing through my mind ever since.

Too bad.

ccarlson

[Gus]

CCarlson,

Your story sounds so familiar to mine this year, I don't even have to write mine out. Needless to say I feel your and my pain as well. Deer are TOUGH and it is sickening. I'm still playing over in my head things I maybe should have done differently. I did end up taking a doe, but I'm still heartbroken over my lost deer.

[LaVoi]

This subject always hits a nerve with me ever since the morning of Novemeber 16, 2003. It was the last day of 2A gun season, and at 8:50 a.m. the biggest buck I have ever seen came walking out. Looked to be a big ten for sure. He stopped at 50 yards quartering in. I had a 30-06 180 gr. and it looked to be a good shot. Aimed for the right shoulder and upon impact he dropped to the ground on that shoulder. I seen a large spray of blood once the bullet penetrated. But somehow he got up and started running. There was a large amount of blood the first ten yards and then it kept getting thinner and thinner to just a trickle. We tracked and tracked and tracked nearly losing his trail many times only to be saved by one little blood spot. Well, all of a sudden in about mile four of the tracking, he just started spraying. If I had a a tape measure I am sure the spray of his blood would have measured five plus feet, and by the way he was dragging that front right leg the entire track. In mile five we jumped him but was behind thick brush and that was as close as I would get to him. Finally after six plus miles of tracking we ran out of daylight and he decended into the thickest swamp I have ever seen before. I wanted to stay and pick it back up that morning but had a four hour drive that night in order to make it to class at eight the next morning. What a sick feeling. I could not think about anything else for a couple weeks straight. So my advice to all you out there is if you really do not want to lose a deer, do not be afraid to throw some extra lead out there. I know I could have gotten at least one more shot off at him but I was just so sure that I had made a good clean kill shot.

[Gissert]

WOW! Interesting stories on these tough deer.

Question - were any of these deer shot with ballistic tip bullets?

[Northland Sportsman]

I have a story similar to the above. I was sitting in my stand in the afternoon, just before sundown a nice big buck comes in pushing a doe. I think they are going to go right pass me just ot of range and then they turn and head right at me. I get a nice 25 yard shot at the buck with my 30-06 and aim for the vitals. He jumps and runs when I hit him. I llok for the doe to take a shot at her but she is running so I don't take what would be a risky shot. I look back at the buck and he is gone. I waited for a few minutes before getting down and looking for the trail. I find a huge blood spray at the site of impact. I figure that I have hime for sure. I started following the blood trail ad jump him up but couldn't get a shot through the brush. I waited some more and went to get help tracking. We tried to follow the bllood trail well into the night but lost it in a swamp so decided to wait until the next morning. Started tracking again and eventually found where he exited the swamp and kept going. We followed the blood trail the whole next day, found a few spots where he beeded down but couldn't catch up to him. Eventually we gave up when we finally lost the trail. This was the worst feeling I ever had after a hunt. It would have been my first buck and a [commercial-or-naughty-word] nice one at that. I will count this as a learning experience and hope that it doesn't happen again. What a terrible feeling, it styed with me for a long time.

[ccarlson]

As far as the shells I use, I am thinking about switching back to a 200 grain. I went to 165's for the occasional chance at longer open field shots but realistically I have never shot at a deer over 200 yards where I hunt in MN.

Any suggestions on types of shells to use for faster expansion and more knock down, I'm all ears.

I did notice that when I sighted my rifle in again this fall against a solid red oak stump that it did not open up fast. Out of curiosity I used an ax to peel away some layers about 2" into the tree and the hole was still the same size as the entry hole. It finally started mushrooming out after that but that is a solid target. I think it would take even longer on a softer target?

ccarlson

[half2fish]

This deer season was a bad one for us. opening morning on my brothers very first hunting trip they see a deer walking through the trees. it stopped in a clearing and gave my brother a nice 60-70 yrd shot. he was using a 30-30 with i believe 150 grain (my dad and bro both grabbed 150's on accident) he pulled the trigger and the deer hit the ground. my dad gave him a few high fives and gave the deer about 10 minutes. when they got to where the deer fell it wasnt there anymore. no blood, and he hit the swamp. looked for 3 hrs and didnt find anything. then on the first tuesday of deer season my dad looked out in the feild. here comes a small buck it turned broadside and stopped, he took a shot and the deer fell, as i was walking down to his stand i hear another shot, about 2 minutes later i hear another shot, then about 10 seconds later i hear another shot. what happend was the deer got up and was dragging itself with its front legs, my dad jumped from the stand and ran over to him. on the way he shot and knocked it down again but it got back up he chased it down again and shot but missed then finally finished him off with a shot in the neck. AND THATS NOT IT. The next morning (22 hours later to the minute) my dad shot a nice 6 point. double lunged him. a little while later he jumped back up and headed for the swamp. my dad pulled up just as he was entering the trees and shot again. that time was good enough. it must have been the 150 grain that he was using. i use 180 grain and that is what he wanted to use. here is a lesson make sure you grab the right grain of shell that you want to use before you go hunting.

[Walleye Guy]

I don't think grain of the bullet is the most critical factor. Expansion of the bullet is key. Pick a bullet that expands quickly and causes alot of damage. I have buddy who bought these "hot" hand loaded bullets at a gun show. He had a buck com out on a drive that he drilled high through the lungs. We chased the deer for hours and finally into a huge swamp. We posted someone on the edge of other side of the swamp as we tracked and we were lucky enough to push the deer to the poster. He finished it off. We examined the deer and this hot load had an entry and exit hole that were exactly the same size. The lungs both had holes the size of the bullet. One of the lungs looked as though it was already starting to clot up.

In my opinion big holes do not clot easily. Expanding bullets make bigger holes.

The tough question is what bullets expand the best. I have had the best luck with Winchester Supreme bullets which are loaded with Nosler partitions. They are specifically made for "light skinned big game animals". Are they the type of bullet you wnt to shoot through a bunch of brush? Probably not. However any deer that I have hit through the old "engine room' has dropped fairly close to where they were shot.

Good luck.

[Pistolero]

ccarlson,

A tree stump is not a good test for expansion, try wet newspaper/phone books instead. Although they are not ideal, they will give a better idea of what a bullet will do. Keeping in mind that the only medium that tell you exactly what your bullet will do is the game animals, every other medium (ballistic gel/wet newspaper) is only a close approximation. Even the ammunition manufactures do not rely on ballistic gel tests, they need feedback from the field.

The ammo that I use is, Winchester 30-06 150 grain Partition Gold or Federal 30-06 165 grain Nosler Partition. I have had excellent results with this ammo. I have used, Barnes X reloads and Winchester Failsafe ammo, with good results from both. I also have the Nosler Ballistic Tip ammo but have not taken any game with it yet.

Of the 15 deer that I have shot over the last 18 years of hunting, I have only put two bullets into two of them and all the rest were one shot kills. Maybe I’m just lucky with my results, I hope that is not the case.

[huskminn]

This has been a very interesting read. My heart goes out to you folks who have lost these deer, as I know how difficult that must be to run through your mind over and over again. I've lost one deer....many, many years ago that I shot with my bow.

I made a poor shot on a quartering away buck that had turned to scratch his head with a hind leg. The arrow passed through and when he turned straight, I think his hide covered the entrance/exit points. There were a few drops of blood, then he crossed a cold, high creek and got on a heavily used, muddy deer trail. No blood, no way to distinguish his tracks....never found another sign of him. It wasn't the buck of a lifetime, but it was an animal that I made hurt and, in the end, couldn't follow up on my end of the deal. I still think about it now, 20 years later.

I shoot a 30-06 with 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. I hunt out west fairly often and need that flat shooting round. I've taken two deer with them. One imperfect neck shot and the deer covered several hundred yards before I could finish him (this wasn't the bullet's fault). The other shot was close--20 yards--in the boiler room. He traveled a 30 yard circle around me and died 15 yards away.

To be honest with you, I didn't give much consideration to bullet expansion when I switched to the NSB's. After reading this discussion, I am wondering if I'm shooting the best round for the job. Every deer I've ever killed with a gun fell to a 150 grain slug. Started with a 30-30 and now use an '06. I guess I've always believed shot placement is much more critical than caliber and grain. But, the above stories have me wondering a little now.

Hope you guys recover from the trauma. As long as you did everything you could to find your animals, you can't feel that you've done anything wrong.

[IceBound]

All I can say to relieve the pain I have carried for almost 12 years to the day is "I am glad I am not the only one". It was my 30th birthday on Nov. 24, 1992 and I was going to spend it hunting pheasants north of Gibson City, Illinois. As I drove the 35 miles from Mahommet to the farm that I had permission to hunt I noticed huge bucks chasing does all over the place...I was amazed at all the deer out at 9 a.m. When I arrived at the farm I was greeted by the farmer who mentioned he saw some deer in a small patch of corn that he left for a food plot. I still had pheasant on my mind as we talked, until I saw the head of a huge buck come up above the standing corn...he was trying to share some love and to this day I can still see that head gear. I decided right then to give it a shot and see if I couldn't get into position on him. The main problem I had was that the remaining corn was about 100 yards from his wood lot and I had no idea which direction the deer would go, if they were even to leave the corn. I sat in the stand for about an hour and then got impatient. I walked slowly up to the corn and then worked my way to the east looking down each row hoping to get a view of the deer. I was about half way across (around 50 yards) when it sounded like a truck coming right at me. It is amazing how fast the mind works in a panic situation...I backed up about 3 or 4 steps and dropped to my knee. In a blink of an eye a very nice 8 pointer and a doe came out about 3 rows over from me...I pulled the arrow back and the next one that came out was a huge buck...I honestly believe he was in the high 190's to 200 inch range...extremely wide and high. He was only 8 or 9 feet from me and I let the arrow go and watched it stick right where I was looking. My draw length is 29 inches and all that I could see was the nock on my side and as he ran away from me the broadhead was barely sticking out. He ran about 250 yards and cut into the woods. I knew I had just got the buck of a lifetime...what a great birthday gift. The strange thing was...2 more deer came out...both nice 8 pointers and the last one was walking and stopped 2 corn rows away. I thought to myself that this is a dream. I had to whistle to get him to even notice me and then he trotted off. I was pretty pumped up as I walked back to the truck to get my camera...thinking of who I would have mount it, etc. (never count the chicks before they hatch, especially with whitetail bucks). I was almost to the truck and happened to look over the farmers land to the west and about 1/4 mile away I see a huge buck walking. I thought that there goes another monster and then it hit me that I should drive around an check it out. I had just turned at the next section road as he crossed and sure enough it was my buck. The blood was running down his side and front leg. He wasn't moving very fast and quite wobbly...I just knew he was about to buckle up. He got about half way across a bean stubble field and then stopped and laid his head backwards and across his back...the snapped it forward and trotted towards a draw. I decided to head into town and get something to eat and give it time to lay down. I think it was around 11:15 a.m. I went back out around 3 p.m. after the farmer contacted the landowner to see if it was ok for me to look for the deer. The trail was easy to follow...and then I found a huge pile of blood. I figured I would find the deer any minute. There laid the arrow...it looked like a pretzel...all twisted up. I couldn't believe that he was able to pull it out. I was finding chunks of lung and clots...and couldn't believe that the deer wasn't laying there. Around an hour or so later I finally got to see him again, he got up about 20 yards from me in some thick brush and moved at a fairly quick, but sick pace towards an abandoned farm site. I decided to leave him be for the night and come back out the next day. The bed he was in was full of blood and lung...I was feeling really sick (kinda feeling that way now thinking about it). As my luck would have it, it rained heavy that night and into the next morning. I took two other hunting buddies with me and we looked for the next 2 days, but were not able to pick up his trail. I can't believe that he made it, but I also have nothing to prove that he didn't. It was Illinois' slug season that next weekend and all the neighbors said they would keep an eye open for it...but no one ever reported finding it. I will take the memory of that buck to my grave...the saying "better to have lost, than not have had at all" is a lie...I would have given anything to have that buck on my wall...

[MG - Fishin']

Just shoot them in the neck and drop them in their tracks! J/K. I know it's easier said than done, but I was lucky enough the last two years to have been given a nice neck shot both times. The doe I got last year took 2 in the neck before she went down and even after that she was still trying to get up again so I had to give her a 3rd one again in the neck. One tough deer. Last Sunday a 10 pointer came across on a steady walk and popped out from behind a tree with only his neck/head sticking out for a shot. Took one shot at about 125 yards straight through the neck. Thought I was going to have a heart attack up in that tree during the whole process. My heart still gets pumping when I think about it.

[paceman]

That really sucks icebound. It is hard to imagine a 8-9 foot shot and the arrow not going all the way through leaving you dead deed. That would have been an awesome b-day gift.